Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

Are you moving the goal posts again.....Where is the appology and declaration first. We havent even got off the ground and you want us to abolish our republic. No deal!!!!!

Do me a favour and PM this response to Bir GR so that he can stop dreaming that you guys will ever let us have equality in Cyprus. On the way perhaps you can drop a line to Kiks as well.

Look, I can always reconsider... did you mean something like this?

"We, the 700,000 Greek Cypriots humbly apologise for existing on this island for the past 10,000 years and subsequently getting in your way when you first invaded in 1571. etc..."

Is that humble enough for you Efendum Zan?

Wasn't me that asked for an appology mate but Bir!!!! I know I won't get one.. that has been apparent from day one so I will not ask but Bir is not getting the message. You seem to have caught something off Piratis though. Bullshitters syndrome with a sudden attack of ancestoritis..

[BirKibrisli]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

You are forever the optimist, imo theoretically maybe it is possible but in reality it is riddled with dangers with regards to disbanding the TRNC and near enough declaring civil disorder as people would start to rush back to claim their properties and the risk of the GC wanting to watering down our rights under the constitution and cause th same issues we faced back in 1963...what will you do when the breakdown in parliament occurs becuase the TCs find Aktritas 2 put before them? and due to civil unrest cuased by no borders and personal conflict between current occupiers and previous owners. So to ask the question you have asked without a comprhensive solution where a structure is put in place to ensure a smooth transition and a peaceful exsistence is an invite to mayhem and disorder and at best very naive.

VP....of course it is not going to happen overnight...there will be lots of negotiations and possibly a Head of Agrements signed before. That goes without saying.That is why i did not say it.
I am only trying to accertain this one thing: Is there any legal or constitutional reason(s) which will stand up in the appropriate international court which would allow the RoC government to reject such a demand from the TCs?????? Forget about the political and strategic considerations.Just answer the question if you know. Thanks.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli, I am no expert on the matter and I do not hold a my breath, Talat is a power hungry individual who play the same game his predescessor, has, The rights will be restored fully and will equal that of any other Cypriot. Having said this, why would you want to move to a country whose national anthem speaks of only one Cypriot and isa representative of only one Cypriot. Ethically this is wrong and that is where the RoC undermines itself and allows for discrimination to exist in the country. However on the other hand I can see why the are doing it. They need the support of Greece to provide for the safety of Cyriots living in the south.

I know I am talking about miracles here ,dear humanist. But I am trying hard to understand iffffffffffff there has been any legal and/or constitutional changes to stand in the way of this return happening...I know there are so many other impediments of course.And I also understand the nead for security for GCs facing 40,000 Turkish soldiers on the other side,but someone has to make a move to break this terrible whishes circle...My belief is that both sides will need to come to an agreement and do it at the same time...But who is going to take the first step to bring about discussions for such radical moves????I am not sure...

[humanist]

well you know if they cannot call off the arms off on a planned date then they are all a bunch of woosy individuals with other agenda. Private pocket stuff. Personally I believe the Roc needs to negotiate with EU if in case of a Turkish attack will they come to its aid> If the answer is yes then a proposed day for army withdral on btoh side needs to be taken to UN.

Turkey will not attck because she is too dependenta on this membership otherwise they would have called it off by now. They want EU membership and theyre bums are getting hotter

[CopperLine]

Birkibrisli

I know I am talking about miracles here ,dear humanist. But I am trying hard to understand iffffffffffff there has been any legal and/or constitutional changes to stand in the way of this return happening...I know there are so many other impediments of course.

As far as I am aware there is no legal barrier, certainly not international legal barrier, to return to the 1960 onstitution and for Talat, or whoever, to announce that. However as you say, the politcal and technical barriers are massive, and in my view Talat would simply not be able or be allowd to do it.

I think it is interesting though that the official line of the AKP is for a united Cyprus under the terms of the Annan Plan. (It is not for an idefinite TRNC nor even less is it for the incorporation of north Cyprus into Turkey).

[BirKibrisli]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

Are you moving the goal posts again.....Where is the appology and declaration first. We havent even got off the ground and you want us to abolish our republic. No deal!!!!!

You are jumping the gun again,mate...The appology and the declaration will have to come first of course,and it will be the result of in depth discussions and probably official agreements between two communities.
But I meant both sides need to appologise for all the wrongs done not just one side.No one expects Talat to do anything unilaterally.Assuming that he is able to do something...

[zan]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

Are you moving the goal posts again.....Where is the appology and declaration first. We havent even got off the ground and you want us to abolish our republic. No deal!!!!!

You are jumping the gun again,mate...The appology and the declaration will have to come first of course,and it will be the result of in depth discussions and probably official agreements between two communities.
But I meant both sides need to appologise for all the wrongs done not just one side.No one expects Talat to do anything unilaterally.Assuming that he is able to do something...

So if Talat cannot do ANYTHING what are you exactly trying to do.?

[BirKibrisli]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

Are you moving the goal posts again.....Where is the appology and declaration first. We havent even got off the ground and you want us to abolish our republic. No deal!!!!!

You are jumping the gun again,mate...The appology and the declaration will have to come first of course,and it will be the result of in depth discussions and probably official agreements between two communities.
But I meant both sides need to appologise for all the wrongs done not just one side.No one expects Talat to do anything unilaterally.Assuming that he is able to do something...

So if Talat cannot do ANYTHING what are you exactly trying to do.?

Praying for a miracle??? Perhaps the settlers who are really only in the trnc to improve their financial situation,and are now the majority,might storm Talat's palace any day now and demand that he abolishes the trnc and demands to be taken back to the Republic...That way they will have a head start on the rest of the Turks, by 25 years, on the road to EU....
Just kidding,mate...

Talat might not be able to do ANYTHING on his own,but together with the Turkish Ambassador and the Head of the Turkish Armed Forces,he can decide that NOTHING can be done...

[Viewpoint]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

You are forever the optimist, imo theoretically maybe it is possible but in reality it is riddled with dangers with regards to disbanding the TRNC and near enough declaring civil disorder as people would start to rush back to claim their properties and the risk of the GC wanting to watering down our rights under the constitution and cause th same issues we faced back in 1963...what will you do when the breakdown in parliament occurs becuase the TCs find Aktritas 2 put before them? and due to civil unrest cuased by no borders and personal conflict between current occupiers and previous owners. So to ask the question you have asked without a comprhensive solution where a structure is put in place to ensure a smooth transition and a peaceful exsistence is an invite to mayhem and disorder and at best very naive.

VP....of course it is not going to happen overnight...there will be lots of negotiations and possibly a Head of Agrements signed before. That goes without saying.That is why i did not say it.
I am only trying to accertain this one thing: Is there any legal or constitutional reason(s) which will stand up in the appropriate international court which would allow the RoC government to reject such a demand from the TCs?????? Forget about the political and strategic considerations.Just answer the question if you know. Thanks.

As far as I am aware a group of TCs representatives did officially claim TC rights under the 1960 constitution but the case was rejected due to the ongoing division. So you can see the GCs do not really want this type of a change to the problem as they would have proposed certain measures had to met before this can take place, total refusal supports my claim that the GC leadership have 90% of what they want which is a GC state run by GCs for GCs all the have to do is keep the refugees quite/duped.

[BirKibrisli]

Ask Piratis what changes he would demand to the 1960 Consititution if we were to ever return to it? Akritas 2 would be placed in front of us accept these changes or no deal...not as easy as you suggest and pretty must repetition of history as I always say the pacakagingmaybe be new but the content is the same.

The question was not what Piratis or anybody else might politically would want,VP,but has there been any legal and constitutional developments/changes since 1964 to prevent the TCs from claiming their rights under the 1960 agreements??? In other words,if Talat abolished the Trnc tomorrow and demanded to return to the Republic with full rights,what would be the legal or constitutional objections to such a move???

You are forever the optimist, imo theoretically maybe it is possible but in reality it is riddled with dangers with regards to disbanding the TRNC and near enough declaring civil disorder as people would start to rush back to claim their properties and the risk of the GC wanting to watering down our rights under the constitution and cause th same issues we faced back in 1963...what will you do when the breakdown in parliament occurs becuase the TCs find Aktritas 2 put before them? and due to civil unrest cuased by no borders and personal conflict between current occupiers and previous owners. So to ask the question you have asked without a comprhensive solution where a structure is put in place to ensure a smooth transition and a peaceful exsistence is an invite to mayhem and disorder and at best very naive.

VP....of course it is not going to happen overnight...there will be lots of negotiations and possibly a Head of Agrements signed before. That goes without saying.That is why i did not say it.
I am only trying to accertain this one thing: Is there any legal or constitutional reason(s) which will stand up in the appropriate international court which would allow the RoC government to reject such a demand from the TCs?????? Forget about the political and strategic considerations.Just answer the question if you know. Thanks.

As far as I am aware a group of TCs representatives did officially claim TC rights under the 1960 constitution but the case was rejected due to the ongoing division. So you can see the GCs do not really want this type of a change to the problem as they would have proposed certain measures had to met before this can take place, total refusal supports my claim that the GC leadership have 90% of what they want which is a GC state run by GCs for GCs all the have to do is keep the refugees quite/duped.

I remember that case,VP..But that was specifically about TC rights to vote at the elections in the South,was it not?And is it not the case that those seats allocated to TCs under the 60 Constitution in Parliament are still vacant???Including the Vice-Presidency???? So what is stopping Talat legally from claiming his position in the Republic???