Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis...I accept the notion that Enosis was a legitimate aspiration of the majority of Cypriots. It was not a crime,but a big mistake...The mistake was compounded because no allowances were made for the feelings of the minorities,especially the TCs...I don't think the GCs appreciated in the past,or even today,the extend of the fear and mistrust created in the TCs towards such eventuality.Had the Enosis dream succeeded,most TCs would've left Cyprus,and that would've amounted to ethnic cleansing as well,albeit indirectly...I am talking about the feelings created by the tragic events at the time,and the nationalsit indocrination behind the scenes of course...given the history of Cyprus and the historical Greco-Turkish animosity,insisting on Enosis was in affect a declaration of war on the TCs...This is what some people still fail to comprehend...And this lies at the heart of those TCs who fail to realise that such a declaration of war does not exist any more...But like everything else in this bloody conflict truths get swept under the carpet,only to surface in individual and mass subconsciousness of the people.
My objection to the repetition of the numbers and the blame game is simply because it stops us from going forward,and looking at the problem with fresh eyes. Somebody has to begin and set the trend of not repeating endlessly those facts that will inevitably increase fear and suspicion.Because you are an elder statesman on this forum I expect you to take the initiative. If we all just yawn and refrain from repeating those arguments,people will just stop using them and get on with talking about what is happening today...Am I being too optimistic????

Bir, GCs had been the slaves of foreigners (including the Turks) for centuries. They wanted to finally be liberated and their cause was a perfectly legitimate one.
I understand your concerns, and that is why I said that insisting on enosis was a mistake (but not a crime).

However if we follow that logic then the Greek state should have never been created since the Ottomans had spread their populations in all territories they occupied. What you say about Cyprus could be said about mainland Greece and any of the other Greek islands, isn't it?

The "taksim" idea was imported to Cyprus by Turkey. The reason was the Turkish geopolitical interests and not the well being of TCs. TCs had simply been used by Turkey in order to serve the Turkish interests. 1960 was not 1821. The TC population would not be in any danger if Cyprus had joined Greece. This was simply something that Turkey made TCs to believe.

In any case, given the reaction of TCs, I accept that insisting on enosis was a mistake. However taksim was not just a mistake, it was a crime, a crime that continues until today, long after enosis aim has been abandoned by GCs.

[BirKibrisli]

Piratis...I accept the notion that Enosis was a legitimate aspiration of the majority of Cypriots. It was not a crime,but a big mistake...The mistake was compounded because no allowances were made for the feelings of the minorities,especially the TCs...I don't think the GCs appreciated in the past,or even today,the extend of the fear and mistrust created in the TCs towards such eventuality.Had the Enosis dream succeeded,most TCs would've left Cyprus,and that would've amounted to ethnic cleansing as well,albeit indirectly...I am talking about the feelings created by the tragic events at the time,and the nationalsit indocrination behind the scenes of course...given the history of Cyprus and the historical Greco-Turkish animosity,insisting on Enosis was in affect a declaration of war on the TCs...This is what some people still fail to comprehend...And this lies at the heart of those TCs who fail to realise that such a declaration of war does not exist any more...But like everything else in this bloody conflict truths get swept under the carpet,only to surface in individual and mass subconsciousness of the people.
My objection to the repetition of the numbers and the blame game is simply because it stops us from going forward,and looking at the problem with fresh eyes. Somebody has to begin and set the trend of not repeating endlessly those facts that will inevitably increase fear and suspicion.Because you are an elder statesman on this forum I expect you to take the initiative. If we all just yawn and refrain from repeating those arguments,people will just stop using them and get on with talking about what is happening today...Am I being too optimistic????

Bir, GCs had been the slaves of foreigners (including the Turks) for centuries. They wanted to finally be liberated and their cause was a perfectly legitimate one.
I understand your concerns, and that is why I said that insisting on enosis was a mistake (but not a crime).

However if we follow that logic then the Greek state should have never been created since the Ottomans had spread their populations in all territories they occupied. What you say about Cyprus could be said about mainland Greece and any of the other Greek islands, isn't it?

The "taksim" idea was imported to Cyprus by Turkey. The reason was the Turkish geopolitical interests and not the well being of TCs. TCs had simply been used by Turkey in order to serve the Turkish interests. 1960 was not 1821. The TC population would not be in any danger if Cyprus had joined Greece. This was simply something that Turkey made TCs to believe.

In any case, given the reaction of TCs, I accept that insisting on enosis was a mistake. However taksim was not just a mistake, it was a crime, a crime that continues until today, long after enosis aim has been abandoned by GCs.

Piratis...I have said it before and will not hesitate to say it again :after having being ruled for millenia by others it would have been unthinkable and unnatural for the GCs, who were the overwhelming majority, not to try to exercise their right to self-determination when it seemed withing reach...I wonder what would have been the present situation in Cyprus had the TCs been in the majority by 82% to 18% in 1960...And I invite everyone to ponder on that scenario before they condemn Enosis...And I invite everyone to ponder on the fears and trepidations of the TCs at the prospect of Enosis...If we begin to empathise a bit more with the other side,perhaps we will see the historcal events as inevitable,and begin the process of understanding and forgiveness.We need to look forward now and create the right atmosphere for a just solution before we pass on and live our children a legacy of hatred,bitterness,resentment and mistrust...

[GreekForumer]

Piratis...I have said it before and will not hesitate to say it again :after having being ruled for millenia by others it would have been unthinkable and unnatural for the GCs, who were the overwhelming majority, not to try to exercise their right to self-determination when it seemed withing reach...I wonder what would have been the present situation in Cyprus had the TCs been in the majority by 82% to 18% in 1960...And I invite everyone to ponder on that scenario before they condemn Enosis...And I invite everyone to ponder on the fears and trepidations of the TCs at the prospect of Enosis...If we begin to empathise a bit more with the other side,perhaps we will see the historcal events as inevitable,and begin the process of understanding and forgiveness.We need to look forward now and create the right atmosphere for a just solution before we pass on and live our children a legacy of hatred,bitterness,resentment and mistrust...

What was the fate of the Turks of Rhodes and Kos when these islands had ENOSIS with Greece in 1947 ?

[bigOz]

Piratis...I have said it before and will not hesitate to say it again :after having being ruled for millenia by others it would have been unthinkable and unnatural for the GCs, who were the overwhelming majority, not to try to exercise their right to self-determination when it seemed withing reach...I wonder what would have been the present situation in Cyprus had the TCs been in the majority by 82% to 18% in 1960...And I invite everyone to ponder on that scenario before they condemn Enosis...And I invite everyone to ponder on the fears and trepidations of the TCs at the prospect of Enosis...If we begin to empathise a bit more with the other side,perhaps we will see the historcal events as inevitable,and begin the process of understanding and forgiveness.We need to look forward now and create the right atmosphere for a just solution before we pass on and live our children a legacy of hatred,bitterness,resentment and mistrust...

What was the fate of the Turks of Rhodes and Kos when these islands had ENOSIS with Greece in 1947 ?

They disappeared from the face of the earth!

[Kifeas]

Piratis...I have said it before and will not hesitate to say it again :after having being ruled for millenia by others it would have been unthinkable and unnatural for the GCs, who were the overwhelming majority, not to try to exercise their right to self-determination when it seemed withing reach...I wonder what would have been the present situation in Cyprus had the TCs been in the majority by 82% to 18% in 1960...And I invite everyone to ponder on that scenario before they condemn Enosis...And I invite everyone to ponder on the fears and trepidations of the TCs at the prospect of Enosis...If we begin to empathise a bit more with the other side,perhaps we will see the historcal events as inevitable,and begin the process of understanding and forgiveness.We need to look forward now and create the right atmosphere for a just solution before we pass on and live our children a legacy of hatred,bitterness,resentment and mistrust...

Had the TCs been in the majority by 82% to 18% in 1960, not only the whole of Cyprus would have today been just another province of Turkey, but also; had the GC minority resisted such an outcome and had pushed for any sort of “Taxim” -like the TCs did, today there would have been absolutely no GC on the island, as they would have all -in actuality and not in their imagination- been annihilated and thrown into the sea.

Even if the GC minority would have not resisted union with Turkey (the will of the majority) still there would have been only a few hundreds of GCs on the island, just like there are only a few hundreds of Greeks left in Istanbul today, out of the almost one million that once used to live there.

[zan]

Piratis...I have said it before and will not hesitate to say it again :after having being ruled for millenia by others it would have been unthinkable and unnatural for the GCs, who were the overwhelming majority, not to try to exercise their right to self-determination when it seemed withing reach...I wonder what would have been the present situation in Cyprus had the TCs been in the majority by 82% to 18% in 1960...And I invite everyone to ponder on that scenario before they condemn Enosis...And I invite everyone to ponder on the fears and trepidations of the TCs at the prospect of Enosis...If we begin to empathise a bit more with the other side,perhaps we will see the historcal events as inevitable,and begin the process of understanding and forgiveness.We need to look forward now and create the right atmosphere for a just solution before we pass on and live our children a legacy of hatred,bitterness,resentment and mistrust...

Had the TCs been in the majority by 82% to 18% in 1960, not only the whole of Cyprus would have today been just another province of Turkey, but also; had the GC minority resisted such an outcome and had pushed for any sort of “Taxim” -like the TCs did, today there would have been absolutely no GC on the island, as they would have all -in actuality and not in their imagination- been annihilated and thrown into the sea.

Even if the GC minority would have not resisted union with Turkey (the will of the majority) still there would have been only a few hundreds of GCs on the island, just like there are only a few hundreds of Greeks left in Istanbul today, out of the almost one million that once used to live there.

Praise the lord and hallelujah! Has the penny dropped at last... You are absolutely right that that is probably what would have happened and you sound pretty pissed off about it too???

The difference is that yours is something that might have happened and ours is something that did happen. Turkey stopped the final part of such an event and therefore the final chapter of your story is changed.

The difference also is that we were given the chance, with a republic, to change that final chapter because just as you have in your prediction others saw the end and tried to put measures in place to prevent it. As with your prediction again, the same safe guard must be put in place again.

Thank you for that story. It sheds light on many things...

[Piratis]

The difference is that yours is something that might have happened and ours is something that did happen.

What did happen is that Turkey invaded a sovereign and independent country and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of people.

The war is not over yet though, so don't be so glad.

[Murataga]

The difference is that yours is something that might have happened and ours is something that did happen.

What did happen is that Turkey invaded a sovereign and independent country and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of people.

The war is not over yet though, so don't be so glad.

Turkey protected her interests in the Mediterranean which coincides with our security and survival in Cyprus. We were ethnically cleansed and ambargoed when they arrived. GCs had long forgotten that there was even a problem in Cyprus as they were sun-tanning on the beaches and counting their money which they were earning more than ever with the rights they usurped from the TC partner. We now have our seperate zone which makes it impossible for you to jeapordize our security/existance and impose your will over us in Cyprus. This makes criminals like you go crazy

[Piratis]

You are full of lies and everybody knows that. Do you think that if you keep repeating your lies somebody will believe you?

You said that I am criminal. How old are Murataga? I was not even born until after 1974.

However you were, and your support to TMT and the other Turkish terrorists that raped under age girls, and killed innocent people by the 1000s is a very good indication that you were one of them. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Chimera]

Murataga wrote:

"....We were ethnically cleansed and ambargoed when they arrived.."

If you were "ethnically cleansed" why are you still around?

Or is this another phrase the Turkish Propaganda Squad has taught you to repeat parrot fashion without a modicum of understanding necessary.

Just because Ethnic Cleansing is in fashion in Turkey, it does not mean we are all at it. Personally I prefer Prada!

The only cleansing was of your thought processes.

Go and learn something.