Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Who agrees with the thought that 1960 was an opportunity missed to create a Cypriot people? A chance to wipe the slate cleanand rule ourselves?

If 1960 was 1950 it would never fail and it would create the Cypriot people through democratic evolution.

What would you expect when just days earlier there were thousands of lunatics who only knew to fight for their assumed rights using guns?

It was like taking some whores and putting them into a monastery. Would you expect the whores to become nuns or the monastery to become a whorehouse?

[zan]

I believe that the GCs on this forum and advisers from outside are preventing the GCs from arguing the point on this period because of the exposure it is getting. The war on this period has been won by us and our story is getting out and it is important for it to be told because of the lies that those with political agendas have been telling. Can we have some experiences and truths told of this period by any GCs or will their mother tongue keep still......

Zan do u read untold stories by the Sevgül Uluda? ? Many GC's are started to talk about 1963 - 1974 .
Read Yenidüzen news paper.
http://www.dzforum.de/downloads/0301003.pdf
http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com

Sorry Halil but my Turkish is rubbish but I am hoping to improve it. Can you suggest any English versions that I can read the same articles in?

Can you also point me to any changes in the situation, other than people just talking, that shows that the GCs are changing the structure of Cyprus to accomodate the TCs?????

to read Turkish it would not difficult for u .pls try to read the news paper yenidüzen specially this column's can learn a lot. i wish it could be translated in greek because they don't get most of the events either.wait u can hear many shock news about missing persons than world will think twice that incidences did not started during 1974. the cyprus problem is not the invasion of the island by the Turkish troops.

I do try Halil but I really need more lessons. The reading is very easy I know but my language is that of a six year old I am sorry to say. Talk to me like you would a child and I am fine. Start to use big words and.......


What you say though dos not pan out on this forum. The GCs here either don't know or don't care. Of course there are exceptions...

[Pyrpolizer]

It's understandable Zan. I have a cousin in UK who is exactly like you language-wise. Now if i say this is NOT what you told me when I asked you in the past, you will say i am picking on you again.

Some things are so obvious when one thinks about them. Here's some more Zan. Neither VP knows good Turkish. The person was born, raised, and educated in UK and at the age of 30 (!) came in Cyprus. In the meantime learned some Turkish but not enough. Just go have an overview at the topic regarding the so called "beating up of TCs" and you will realize what really caused all the trouble to VP....

VP HAS read it in Turkish but didn't really understand it.

[Piratis]

Piratis

Viewpoint wrote:
Who agrees with the thought that 1960 was an opportunity missed to create a Cypriot people? A chance to wipe the slate cleanand rule ourselves?


Cypriot people existed for 1000s of years. If TCs are part of the Cypriot people or some other "people" thats questionable and mostly up to them.

Here is a 2000 year old coin with the inscription "ΚΟΙΝΟΝ ΚΥΠΡΙΩΝ" ("Common to all Cypriots").



1960 could have been a chance to make a new start if it had created a truly independent, democratic state and the state had the power to fight and destroy those paramilitaries that didn't want the state to succeed because they had other aims which were sponsored by outsiders.

That didn't happen, and it is not a surprise since the 1960 constitution was not a result of a democratic process among Cypriots, but was forced on us by foreigners.

Are you referring to the constitiution you cling onto today? appears to be invaluable in 2007 is that because it has the TC element removed? wasnt it you that said its the only agreement we have and that TCs should return to it? how long will it take you to regurgitate Akritas 2 and run to the EU begging for changes to water down TCs rights.

The fact that the British gave you a lot with that constitution doesn't mean you have any right to illegaly perform ethnic cleansing or take illegally even more on our loss.
Those agreements are in fact the only legal thing that we have, and I support legality even though those agreements are far from fair. However those agreements are almost 5 decades old. Therefore with legal means and following the EU aquis, yes I would want changes that would make that constitution more democratic and more in line with that exists in other EU countries. Nothing wrong with that.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Viewpoint wrote:
Who agrees with the thought that 1960 was an opportunity missed to create a Cypriot people? A chance to wipe the slate cleanand rule ourselves?


Cypriot people existed for 1000s of years. If TCs are part of the Cypriot people or some other "people" thats questionable and mostly up to them.

Here is a 2000 year old coin with the inscription "ΚΟΙΝΟΝ ΚΥΠΡΙΩΝ" ("Common to all Cypriots").



1960 could have been a chance to make a new start if it had created a truly independent, democratic state and the state had the power to fight and destroy those paramilitaries that didn't want the state to succeed because they had other aims which were sponsored by outsiders.

That didn't happen, and it is not a surprise since the 1960 constitution was not a result of a democratic process among Cypriots, but was forced on us by foreigners.

Are you referring to the constitiution you cling onto today? appears to be invaluable in 2007 is that because it has the TC element removed? wasnt it you that said its the only agreement we have and that TCs should return to it? how long will it take you to regurgitate Akritas 2 and run to the EU begging for changes to water down TCs rights.

The fact that the British gave you a lot with that constitution doesn't mean you have any right to illegaly perform ethnic cleansing or take illegally even more on our loss.
Those agreements are in fact the only legal thing that we have, and I support legality even though those agreements are far from fair. However those agreements are almost 5 decades old. Therefore with legal means and following the EU aquis, yes I would want changes that would make that constitution more democratic and more in line with that exists in other EU countries. Nothing wrong with that.

So you agree the constitution must change, then why do you think we should go back to it obviously it will not work and you support this. Then dont you think that we are on the right path to finding a better solution via a BBF where we already have the basis of 2 states in place already abeit one is recognised and other is not.

[Piratis]

What we have now are the results of invasion, illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing, this can not be right in any way.

What should be done is return to legality, and then via legal and democratic means to see if we can make the 1960 constitution better and bring it to the 21st century.

[Kikapu]

It was like taking some whores and putting them into a monastery. Would you expect the whores to become nuns or the monastery to become a whorehouse?

What an interesting dilemma.

[Kikapu]

So you agree the constitution must change, then why do you think we should go back to it obviously it will not work and you support this. Then dont you think that we are on the right path to finding a better solution via a BBF where we already have the basis of 2 states in place already abeit one is recognised and other is not.

I think Piratis already accepted this on a 82%-18% ratios if nothing else is agreed on.

What says you.???

Don't look for examples for land being distributed based on population anywhere else in the world. Whether there is or there's not, is totally irrelevant.

Question that needs to be asked is, will this not help the TC's finally become respected member of the International community with all of it's political rights. Then once all the compensations are paid out to those that have lost out from both sides, then the BBF can be applied in the form you see it to be.

Good luck telling Turkey you don't need her anymore and for her to pull her troops.

Lets assume Turkey says yes.

Piratis, will this be acceptable to the GC's.???

[zan]

So you agree the constitution must change, then why do you think we should go back to it obviously it will not work and you support this. Then dont you think that we are on the right path to finding a better solution via a BBF where we already have the basis of 2 states in place already abeit one is recognised and other is not.

I think Piratis already accepted this on a 82%-18% ratios if nothing else is agreed on.

What says you.???

Don't look for examples for land being distributed based on population anywhere else in the world. Whether there is or there's not, is totally irrelevant.

Question that needs to be asked is, will this not help the TC's finally become respected member of the International community with all of it's political rights. Then once all the compensations are paid out to those that have lost out from both sides, then the BBF can be applied in the form you see it to be.

Good luck telling Turkey you don't need her anymore and for her to pull her troops.

Lets assume Turkey says yes.

Piratis, will this be acceptable to the GC's.???

If 82-18% ratio is not based on population then what is based on???

[Piratis]

I think you got it right Kikapu.

The most fair and best solution for everybody in the long run would be one united, democratic Cyprus, with equal Cypriot citizens and no kinds of racist discrimination.

If however TCs insist that they want to be separate on their own, then they should at least stop being greedy and propose to us a kind of partition that will be acceptable by us. They should realize that the north part of Cyprus is the homeland of 5 times more GCs than TCs and that northern Cyprus is part of Republic of Cyprus, and therefore they have absolutely no right for partition, and they can achieve it only if we agree to it.

An 82%-18%, given the insistence of the majority of TCs on partition, would be acceptable by the majority of GCs.

Then TCs would have to work by themselves and show what they can achieve, instead of the easy money of selling GC properties, the benefits of EU membership (that we, and not them, had to make sacrifices for), and the taxes that GCs pay.

It is time that TCs should realize that a "solution" where they get all the benefits of partition and all the benefits of unification at the same time is simply not possible. It will either be a true unification that will create in Cyprus a normal country like all the other in EU , or it will be partition, and for that to happen they will have to convince us by proposing something that we can accept (= 18%-82%)

If we ever agree on an 18%-82% partition then without threats, blackmails and illegalities, we can discuss if we want to have federation, or if TCs can enter EU etc.