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[oranos64]

As a former resident of Harringey I know what you mean Clive!

In London we cease being Greek or Turkish and are mostly Cypriots. But then, in London we do not have the interference from outsiders, like the mainlanders who are all too eager to preach to us about being true Greeks or Turks. See my point four above.

In my day, 60s and 70s the main center was Harringey, both sides of Green Lanes. Seems the community has edged further north since then.

Nikitas

wrong ...there was always anomosity between the community ....haringey was different ....becuase the T.CS were a minority ...try going to stoke newington and hackney in the 70s and 80s ...loads of Turkish cypriots turned against their Greek Cypriot neighbours and their was loads of ethnic violence ...the same could be said in the 90s ..when the Kurdish people arrived and the TURKS AND TURKISH CYPRIOTS TURNED UP IN 1000S to fight from central london to the suburbs ...there was something like 98 stabbings and 12 shootsing between 1993-1997

the communities got along until someelse came along to hate ...
it was not the Greeks nor Turks who wind them up ...but the cultures clashing ....

[Nikitas]

Oranos,

Your info re clashes and riots surprised me. I guess things changed after 1976 when I left Harringey. Our daily lives were very much mixed in terms of the two communities. We went to the same coffee shops, shopped in the other community's shops and there was a lot of cross community employment.

It was a surprise to read of riots and intercommunal attacks. As was the mention of a Kurdish community in Harringey, in the 70s immigrants were almost all from the Commonwealth. Things have changed!

[zan]

As a former resident of Harringey I know what you mean Clive!

In London we cease being Greek or Turkish and are mostly Cypriots. But then, in London we do not have the interference from outsiders, like the mainlanders who are all too eager to preach to us about being true Greeks or Turks. See my point four above.

In my day, 60s and 70s the main center was Harringey, both sides of Green Lanes. Seems the community has edged further north since then.

Nikitas

wrong ...there was always anomosity between the community ....haringey was different ....becuase the T.CS were a minority ...try going to stoke newington and hackney in the 70s and 80s ...loads of Turkish cypriots turned against their Greek Cypriot neighbours and their was loads of ethnic violence ...the same could be said in the 90s ..when the Kurdish people arrived and the TURKS AND TURKISH CYPRIOTS TURNED UP IN 1000S to fight from central london to the suburbs ...there was something like 98 stabbings and 12 shootsing between 1993-1997

the communities got along until someelse came along to hate ...
it was not the Greeks nor Turks who wind them up ...but the cultures clashing ....

I do lke your wording Turks turned against their Greek niegbours. What a prat...and you deserved that comment.

Nothing changed from when they lived in Cyprus. `There were Greek areas and there were Turkish. Of course there were some that mixed and my best friends where GC and an Armenian from Istanbul. W stuck together because of some commonalities that was all. We were also young and had no idea of what was going on in Cyprus and quite frankly did not care. We were only interested in girls.

e used to go to a place in Southgate where the split was between Arsenal fans and Totenham fans. You cannot take what the young did to what the older generation did. Better the devil you know.

[BirKibrisli]

boys how do we change it, how do we change from a people who identify as turkish/ greek to a people who are proud and want to be Cypriot? Coments will be appreciated. Neo and Bir I look forward to some of your ideas this is time for growth.

Dear humanist,
this reply might sound a bit flippant but it is not intended that way.
The TCs now realise they are very different to the mainland Turks,because they have been invaded by them and outnumbered by them to such an extend that the differences are obvious.Most TCs are totally astounded by what they see around them. Now if there was such an influx of maindland Greeks to Cyprus,and they were allowed a free hand in running the Republic,then most GCs might rush and embrace the first TC they would find,which is not an easy task (to find real TCs) these days...

Sorry mate,but my head is a bit sore from hitting it against a brick wall..And my fingers are sore from repeating the same lines. TCs have long past the point where they can raise even the slightest protest voice against their "saviours"...It is upto the legitimate Govrenment of all Cyprus to dismantle all things Hellenic in the South,make Turkish the other truly official language,curb the power of the Orthodox church to influence politics,establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission,a Human rights and Equal Opportunity commission,invite all TCs in the North and the diaspora to return and settle in the Republic and declare the 1960 constitution would be fully implemented when there are enough TC numbers. Then watch Turkey trying to find somewhere to hide from international public opinion and political pressure from the EU...The pride in our Cypriotness will come over a few generations,if the government fosters it...

Not much there I do not agree with. Surprised! You should listen more to what I say and not what you think I said.

Perhaps it is the way you say certain things that masks their meaning...

[zan]

boys how do we change it, how do we change from a people who identify as turkish/ greek to a people who are proud and want to be Cypriot? Coments will be appreciated. Neo and Bir I look forward to some of your ideas this is time for growth.

Dear humanist,
this reply might sound a bit flippant but it is not intended that way.
The TCs now realise they are very different to the mainland Turks,because they have been invaded by them and outnumbered by them to such an extend that the differences are obvious.Most TCs are totally astounded by what they see around them. Now if there was such an influx of maindland Greeks to Cyprus,and they were allowed a free hand in running the Republic,then most GCs might rush and embrace the first TC they would find,which is not an easy task (to find real TCs) these days...

Sorry mate,but my head is a bit sore from hitting it against a brick wall..And my fingers are sore from repeating the same lines. TCs have long past the point where they can raise even the slightest protest voice against their "saviours"...It is upto the legitimate Govrenment of all Cyprus to dismantle all things Hellenic in the South,make Turkish the other truly official language,curb the power of the Orthodox church to influence politics,establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission,a Human rights and Equal Opportunity commission,invite all TCs in the North and the diaspora to return and settle in the Republic and declare the 1960 constitution would be fully implemented when there are enough TC numbers. Then watch Turkey trying to find somewhere to hide from international public opinion and political pressure from the EU...The pride in our Cypriotness will come over a few generations,if the government fosters it...

Not much there I do not agree with. Surprised! You should listen more to what I say and not what you think I said.

Perhaps it is the way you say certain things that masks their meaning...

I think it is more a case of, I don't throw them all in the same bucket and mix them around Bir. Each part has its own problems and have to be tackled differently.

[oranos64]

Zan your post replying to me is wrong...whether you like what i said or not ...you have to accept it ...even now both cultures get along in north london ...the troubles flared in the mid 90s ...

1 when your criminal military shot down an unarmed greek cyp in the buffer zone and the murder of the Greek BIKER ...
2. the stabbings and murders of Kurds etc in north london ....and the capture and assault of kurdish militants

most of the CAFES AND BARS WERE DESCERTED ... during those weeks and eventually split ...

....the Turkish cypriots where encouraged way back in mid 90s by pro islamic movements to split from the Greeks with regards to places OF STUDY IE colleges and where to hang ouT ..

.this was why pro TURKS hired places like the RITZY ...IN tottenham to host parties for young Turks and to brain wash them with hate ..i saw the videos from some of my TC friends .... scared of this new militant faction ..TURKISH FLAGS ,GREY WOLVES SYMBOLS ETC ...HATE ...PURE HATE ..

.. even here in cyprus ...we get along ..THAT IS until recently WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN in a couple of villages wHere THERE ARE GREY WOLVES ... AND THEY have again began to show their teeth ...banning their T.C.S cousins from inviting over G..CS ....KYRENIA I HEAR IS A BREEDING GROUND....

so you see the pnly prat is you ...much as i try to be biassed and call the Greeks innocent ...i always look upon myself to give a balance view ...

It is your cultures nationalistic mentally ,pro military ways ...which drive a stake between you and other cultures ...it will lead to the downfall of your " so powerful military " ....and prevent your entry into Europe

Yes we made a mistake some 40years ago ... but now it is your goose stepping father state ...who are slowly marching into a abyss ...

[Nikitas]

Oranos,

What you are describing sounds like something out of the 1930s rather than London in the 1990s. Can you get some corroboration that there were meeting halls where people preached racial hatred and evidence of the shootings and stabbings? It all sounds too wild for London. On the other hand I might have been out of touch, although I do listen to the BBC world service almost daily and I am in touch with family and friends in the UK.

I did hear of vilent incidents involving gangs, but in connection with common crime, nothing political.

Meanwhile here in Europe, in Athens, there is the normal annual attempt by several dozen Kurds and supporters to march to the Turkish embassy and burn a flag or two. They are arrested, slung in jail for a week or two to cool down and that is where it stops. Whoever whould have thought that Greece would be calmer, and more law abiding than the UK. Times do change!

[oranos64]

christ all mighty .... there has been ethnic clashes in london for years like going back to the 60s between different ethnic groups ...
Nikita ..i dont understand your thinking nor your questioning ... i,..read my posts it says quite clearly the halls names and areas and i quote the events which inflamed the issues ...a stabbing or too !!! .

.in 1998 .,..in HARINGEY ...the kurds and turks fought guns against guns for 45 mins ..the police could not intervene ... so they let them shoot it out ...
ethnic albanians and columbians shot it out in 2002 ... its mainly over drugs and prostution .... a fine revenue for the dominating ethinic gang ...the Greek Cypriots have moved out beyond the borders of north london in the past decade ...unfortuantely ...the Turkish Cypriots follow us ....hence the link with Drugs etc ....(did anyone say yasir halim - mr heroin ...(75% of heroin in london comes form Turkey /TC SUPPLIERS )

i have grown up in london and grew up with this shit around me ..hence i lefted to live in peace in lovely cyprus

not all violence makes the news ....a turkish cypriot was killed this week outside london by some scum hoodies ...for telling them off (sir i salute you ... i wish i was there to back you and kick the crap out of them ...poor Turkish fella was outgunned ...local youth scum stabbed him i think ...my condelsecenes etc to his family )

Law abiding U.K ? the bbc world service ? ...try reading a british tabloid paper or talking to people in london or a major city ...this week alone 13 people under the age of 30 have been stabbed or murdered ...believe me Athens is heaven ...

the pro turk facist nutters are alive and well in HACKNEY and stoke newington .....their targets are kurds rather than Greeks ...so i hear now

GLAD I LEFT .....

[Nikitas]

Oranos,

I stand corrected!

I spent my teens and early twenties in London. Never liked it much, so as soon as I graduted I left. I could not return to Cyprus, it was soon after the invasion and Famagusta, the only place I knew, was occupied and deserted. So I came to Athens and been here ever since. Considering the picture you paint of the place now, I am glad I left. Only went back once for a few days in 1984 and that was enough.

Which brings me to a point that needs to be made- aren't we Cypriots a little too attached to the British model? There are other places in Europe with deeper civilization and culture and perhaps more useful as national role models than the UK. And no, I donot mean Greece or Turkey. We suffered enough with those two and their big ideas about Cyprus. Just a thought for further discussion. And as a note part humorous part serious I would suggest that young people from all communities spend part of their military service travelling around Europe, just to see that there is another way to live.

[denizaksulu]

The true Greek Cypriots live in: Wood Green, Turnpike Lane, Arnos Grove, Palmers Green, Barnet etc. That is where they fled in the 60's to get away from the EOKA B terrorists, of which Tpap was a member but now owns so many houses in London he would run for mayor. Also in 1974 thousand of GC's who fled the Turks. Many arrived with nothing and were given houses and furniture. They flourished in London and established many Greek Cypriot clubs and associations. They have representatives on councils, have had Mayors of London boroughs and even members of parliament. The GC's in Cyprus just wouldn't tolerate foreigners doing that in Cyprus. if you are a GC in London would you even think about coming back to Cyprus? I bet you wouldn't they would call you a "Charlie".

In north London, and indeed other cities throughout the world the GC's and TC's live quite happily together. Indeed when I lived in Palmers Green I had on one side a GC couple and on the other a TC couple. No problems at all. OK they were a bit noisier than the normal British but we all got on and support each other. What a pity we cannot replicate that on the island of Cyprus.

Music to my ears and welcome to the club.

Regards
DA