Cyprus-Forum.com

[PEACE]

Today i heard from Kıbrıs Newspaper that church started a propaganda against Annan Plan !

This amazed me so much because i was knowing churces as religious places! But after this news i changed my idea!

In Turkey and here we are trying to purify army from politics completely! This seems a big democratical obstacle against the real democracy! Because army hasn't got rights to do politics!Why am i saying this?Because i think like army hasn't got rights to do politics, churches hasn't got right to mix to politics! I think it can cause big problems !

In churches who is talking about Annan Plan has enough information about the plan?about politics?
Annan Plan explanation should be done by authorized experts!


What do you think about this subject?

[metecyp]

It's a known fact that Greek Orthodox Church has always been involved in Greek Cypriot politics. I'm not sure if this is going to change but I don't think that it's as big of an issue compared to Army's involvement in politics in the north.

Army's involvement in politics and even in general life in northern Cyprus is direct. Nobody can question army, and army has a direct impact on the goverment in the north and laws that apply to ordinary citizens do not apply to army.

On the other hand, it seems like church is also involved in politics, but this is only in advice giving level. It's their right to ask G/Cs to vote No for Annan plan if they feel the need. I don't think that church has the power to change the political structure in the south, as the army has in the north.

So, I agree that Church's involvement in political matters is disturbing but I don't see it as a big problem. By the way, maybe that's why in Annan plan it specifically says that the federal state is secular!

[antonis]

It's a known fact that Greek Orthodox Church has always been involved in Greek Cypriot politics.

Had been involved. Now they can only express their opinion. They don't even give advice. The clergy will never start analyzing the plan to the people on Sunday mass, if that's what you think. If they attempt that they will be heavily criticized. The bishops can express their beliefs, that are many times based on passion and not on realism. They will probably suggest that the people vote "NO", but I'm sure that they are not the ones to influence people, there are "better" rhetors...

Let me remind you that last November, there was an attempt from your leadership to start "enlightening" sessions inside mosques against the Annan plan...

[Greek Cypriots]

I'm sure that they are not the ones to influence people

Maybe they can not influence me and you, but there are many people that can be influenced.

I don't think we should close their mouths. We live in a democracy.

On the other hand, Church is given way too many special rights and power and some laws do not apply to them. I really do not like this. We live in the 21st century, not in Byzantium.

If it was up to me I would take the huge property of the church and put it to the benefit of the citizens (where it should have been in the first place). Bishops and priests should not be considered as people that their opinion should be asked from the Mass Media. If they want to say something they can say it to their churches.

[metecyp]

Let me remind you that last November, there was an attempt from your leadership to start "enlightening" sessions inside mosques against the Annan plan

This is the funniest thing I've heard for so long I've never heard such a plan but even if it was true, it was doomed to fail. As far as religion goes, T/Cs are the most unreligious people I've known so far. Most T/Cs go to mosque once or twice for very important religious occasions, and that's it. I don't think that anyone would influence any part of T/C society by solely depending on "enlightment in mosque".

Maybe they can not influence me and you, but there are many people that can be influenced.

I don't think we should close their mouths. We live in a democracy.

On the other hand, Church is given way too many special rights and power and some laws do not apply to them. I really do not like this. We live in the 21st century, not in Byzantium.

Greek Cypriot, thanks for your sincerity on this issue.

[antonis]

This is the funniest thing I've heard for so long ... T/Cs are the most unreligious people I've known so far...

Firstly, I never said that it was targeted to TCs, but voters in general. Here's the pieces I had in mind when I wrote this.

http://www.cyprusmedianet.com/TR/article/14201?
http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/?newsid=2126&category=

[PEACE]

Let me remind you that last November, there was an attempt from your leadership to start "enlightening" sessions inside mosques against the Annan plan...

Yup! Mete that's true ! Denktas' brilliand(!) mind and his suggestions ...

However TC's are not going to mosque (%99 of them).
But yes Antonis ! I don't know about settelers.Most of the settelers who are new to here (The Ones that came here since 1990 or something)
are not educated and can be easily deceived.Also,who vote "YES" to go from this island in referendum?I strongly opposite to that idea that all electors will vote for referendum on 14 December 2003 elections! Only who are going to stay must vote in referendum!

[antonis]

Most of the settelers who are new to here (The Ones that came here since 1990 or something) are not educated and can be easily deceived. Also,who vote "YES" to go from this island in referendum?I strongly opposite to that idea that all electors will vote for referendum on 14 December 2003 elections! Only who are going to stay must vote in referendum!

My friend, you know that this is going to be difficult, may I say impossible. The 2003 elections seemed to be flawed, but the opposition managed to get the majority, although the TC seem not to be the majority of the electors . That means that many settlers voted for the opposition, right?

What I'm afraid is that you "ghettoed" many of them in certain areas - these you cannot influence, their imams can! And if they are easily deceived, that means that in a future election they might change their mind, they may even want taksim!

Most of these people, unless the Annan plan changes, are going to stay here after the solution. It is up to you to decide whether you want to change this part of the plan or leave it as it is. The GC side wants to put an upper bound on the total number of people that can stay.

[PEACE]

That means that many settlers voted for the opposition, right?

Eh ! Right! But we don't know the number!

What I'm afraid is that you "ghettoed" many of them in certain areas - these you cannot influence, their imams can!

Not only imams but also army and opposition parties can ! And yes! They are ghettoed in certain areas generally ! For exp. Karpasia!

Most of these people, unless the Annan plan changes, are going to stay here after the solution. It is up to you to decide whether you want to change this part of the plan or leave it as it is. The GC side wants to put an upper bound on the total number of people that can stay.

Not most of them of these uneducated ones! The ones who are going to stay are like us ! There is no difference.They are like a real Cypriot! But the ones who come in 1990s are not and they are going to vote in referendum!

[metecyp]

What I'm afraid is that you "ghettoed" many of them in certain areas - these you cannot influence, their imams can!

I'm not sure what you mean by we "ghettoed" these people. Nobody ghettoed anyone, we're not in 1940s Nazi Germany where people are ghettoed just because of their Jewish background. It's true that these people live mainly together and they tend to live in places where not many T/Cs would choose to live. This is only natural though because these people are the lower class of people in Turkey, and their main objective in Cyprus is to work and earn money for their relatives both in Cyprus and back in Turkey. So it's not surprising that they form the lower class of the community in the north and they live in low class places.

And if they are easily deceived, that means that in a future election they might change their mind, they may even want taksim!

Most of these people "escaped" from Turkey due to economic conditons. Although some of them are really uneducated and they would do whatever the people in power say, I'm sure many of them would not favor taksim (and hence making north Cyprus "small Turkey" in one sense) against the EU and its standards.

Most of these people, unless the Annan plan changes, are going to stay here after the solution. It is up to you to decide whether you want to change this part of the plan or leave it as it is. The GC side wants to put an upper bound on the total number of people that can stay.

I support an upper limit for people from Turkey and also people from Greece, it's only fair.