Cyprus-Forum.com

[free_cyprus]

Get Real!
im a cypriot are you going to make me a turk or a greek, thats the question i put forth to you right now ????????????????

[Marz]

Muratag, tell us since you are very wealthy in the knowlege of history, if greek Cypriots arent indigenous to Cyprus, then the TC are definetely not, since you originated from Turkey, who really originated from the Desert cavemen of Mongolia.
If we arent who is then you tell us who those people were that were on the island 10,000 years ago because it definetely wasnt any Turk.
so ill wait for you to tell me.

[paliometoxo]

turk...

[bigOz]

Muratag, tell us since you are very wealthy in the knowlege of history, if greek Cypriots arent indigenous to Cyprus, then the TC are definetely not, since you originated from Turkey, who really originated from the Desert cavemen of Mongolia.
If we arent who is then you tell us who those people were that were on the island 10,000 years ago because it definetely wasnt any Turk.
so ill wait for you to tell me.

Allow me to comment on your distasteful and rude comments about other participants in this thread. Under normal circumstances you would have had a lot stronger reaction but I feel you are just another miss-informed blabberer whose history is limited to that of Greek Mythology!

To start with, we all came from the "cavemen" unless you believe Greeks were lowered down to earth by some Mythical God or force!

Turks did not come from Mongolia but an area West of China and Mongolian borders (mostly under Chinese rule today). The area is not a desert but partly "steppes". That part of the World had civilisations and cultures far superior to any European (including Greek) thousands of years earlier! When most of Europe wore animal skins and shit in various materials before throwing the feaces out of the window - these people in Asia had fine costumes and used toilets more than thousand years before. In fact, even the Royalty in Europe were still shitting in pots and throwing it out of their windows until late 18th century!

The Grand Regression in Medieval Europe

The collapse of the Roman Empire followed by the emergence of Roman Catholic Christian fundamentalism in Europe in the eighth and ninth centuries led to a grand regression in terms of personal hygiene that in some places lasted until the late 18th Century. In the beginning of the Medieval Ages, Roman Catholic clergy came up with two maxims that undermined the invention of hygienic devices for a long time.

1. Washing the carnal body would be a denial of the original sin, and therefore punishable. This was taken literally in Spain which culminated in a peculiar self-dynamic. Before the Catholic re-conquering of the Iberian peninsula from the hands of the Moors in the middle of the 15th Century, a rather tolerant though heterogeneous society composed of a Jewish and Muslim minority and a Christian majority lived there quite peacefully. After this conquest, many Jews and Muslims were forcibly (and sometimes willingly) baptized. They were now called the nuevos conversos or 'new-converts'. The Catholic church never stopped being suspicious that those new converts were secretly still performing their heretic rituals. Some Jewish and Muslim rituals involve bathing and cleaning, and for that reason the homes of the 'new converts' had washing facilities. Clean people, or homes with washing basins would draw the attention of the most fanatic Christians. Which in many cases was a dangerous thing.

2. Penitence is good. Living in a stinking house and being dirty was not regarded as being something healthy, but as it was a form of suffering, and suffering is a form of penitence, it was okay to wander about itching and stinking.

In Medieval times, the excrement were collected in pots and the contents thrown on the street (some cities issued a law which prescribed a cry of warning before emptying the pot in order to prevent unhappy accidents). The first floor protuberance was also a popular solution for the problem by then.

if you wish to read more go to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A604289
and also:
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Jap ... id/1526322
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan

There are no "if"s about it! Greeks are not indigenous to Cyprus and that has been explained in some detail in this thread. I suggest you go back and read the posts sent yesterday. If you still have difficulty in understanding - apply in writing and a free tutorial will be made available specially for you...

[Kikapu]

Muratag, tell us since you are very wealthy in the knowlege of history, if greek Cypriots arent indigenous to Cyprus, then the TC are definetely not, since you originated from Turkey, who really originated from the Desert cavemen of Mongolia.If we arent who is then you tell us who those people were that were on the island 10,000 years ago because it definetely wasnt any Turk.
so ill wait for you to tell me.

Allow me to comment on your distasteful and rude comments about other participants in this thread. Under normal circumstances you would have had a lot stronger reaction but I feel you are just another miss-informed blabberer whose history is limited to that of Greek Mythology!

To start with, we all came from the "cavemen" unless you believe Greeks were lowered down to earth by some Mythical God or force!

Turks did not come from Mongolia but an area West of China and Mongolian borders (mostly under Chinese rule today). The area is not a desert but partly "steppes". That part of the World had civilisations and cultures far superior to any European (including Greek) thousands of years earlier! When most of Europe wore animal skins and shit in various materials before throwing the feaces out of the window - these people in Asia had fine costumes and used toilets more than thousand years before. In fact, even the Royalty in Europe were still shitting in pots and throwing it out of their windows until late 18th century!

BibOz, why do you even bother to answer such silly people who make silly comments.

That's why I'm staying out of these topics on who is Indigenous and who is not.

We are all Cypriots and that's good enough for me.

[bigOz]

Greeks invaded the island first and then the Turks and then the Greeks tried again but this time did not wipe out those that have a legitamate claim to the island as well and so it goes on. Is that what you meant....?

I think you confused the Greek Civilization with the Barbarian Turks.
Here it is again for you:

First Greeks in Cyprus:

After 1400 B.C., Mycenaean and Mycenaean-Achaean traders from the northeastern Peloponnesus began regular commercial visits to the island. Settlers from the same areas arrived in large numbers toward the end of the Trojan War (traditionally dated about 1184 B.C.). Even in modern times, a strip of the northern coast was known as the Achaean Coast in commemoration of those early settlers. The newcomers spread the use of their spoken language and introduced a script that greatly facilitated commerce. They also introduced the potter's wheel and began producing pottery that eventually was carried by traders to many mainland markets. By the end of the second millennium B.C., a distinctive culture had developed on Cyprus. The island's culture was tempered and enriched by its position as a crossroads for the commerce of three continents, but in essence it was distinctively Hellenic.

Piratis when you ask "Using your theory the "Native Indians" ....
...They are native, because they were the people naturally inhabiting America when the whites came and took their land by force. Reminds you of anything?"

The answer is YES it does! Read the bold areas in below quote from the GC site and you'll know what I mean!

By your own standard of argument I can tell you that the Greeks were the Barbarians who invaded, pillaged and destroyed the Mycean Civilisation! And if you are wrongly claiming that the Myceans were not Myceans but Greeks - as you put it, then the Turks were in Cyprus long before the Greeks! By the same reasoning the first Turks in Cyprus would have been those originating from Turkey (Hitites)!

I quote form a Greek Cypriot site: http://www.kypros.org/Cyprus/history.html

2500-1050 BC BRONZE AGE

Copper is more extensively exploited bringing wealth to Cyprus. Trade is built up with the Near East, Egypt and the Aegean. After 1400 BC, Mycenaeans from Greece reach the island, perhaps as merchants. During the 12th and 11th centuries several waves of Achaean Greeks come to settle on the island bringing with them the Greek language, their religion, their customs. They build new cities like Paphos, Salamis, Kition. Kourion. The island from now on is progressively hellenised.

Putting aside the fact the every Greek or GC publication conveniently ignores the existence of other civilisations in Cyprus prior to 1400 BC, it is clear from above that Myceans were not "Hellens" but a civilisation that lived in an area that became part of later Greece - Same as Hitites who used to live in today's Turkey!

We have gone through these arguments a million times, but there is no way of making you or especially the corrupt mind of Kifeas understand the truth - you'll both always come up with a "Yes but...." argument which is more like the one school-kids do for the sake of winning an argument rather than admitting the truth or (god forbid) they were wrong!

[alexISS]

I quote form a Greek Cypriot site: http://www.kypros.org/Cyprus/history.html

2500-1050 BC BRONZE AGE

Copper is more extensively exploited bringing wealth to Cyprus. Trade is built up with the Near East, Egypt and the Aegean. After 1400 BC, Mycenaeans from Greece reach the island, perhaps as merchants. During the 12th and 11th centuries several waves of Achaean Greeks come to settle on the island bringing with them the Greek language, their religion, their customs. They build new cities like Paphos, Salamis, Kition. Kourion. The island from now on is progressively hellenised.

Putting aside the fact the every Greek or GC publication conveniently ignores the existence of other civilisations in Cyprus prior to 1400 BC, it is clear from above that Myceans were not "Hellens" but a civilisation that lived in an area that became part of later Greece - Same as Hitites who used to live in today's Turkey!

We have gone through these arguments a million times, but there is no way of making you or especially the corrupt mind of Kifeas understand the truth - you'll both always come up with a "Yes but...." argument which is more like the one school-kids do for the sake of winning an argument rather than admitting the truth or (god forbid) they were wrong!

Mycenaeans (not Myceans) were a Greek tribe, they spoke the Greek language and coexisted with other Greek tribes, they are nothing like the Hitites are to the Turks: a foreign people with a language and culture that had nothing to do with the Turkish one. The text you quote does not suggest the Mycenaeans were non Greeks at all, all it says is that the Mycenaean Greeks visited the island as (probably) merchants, not settlers, while other Greek tribes settled it later on

[bigOz]

The stupid claims by many in this forums about Greeks being Indigenous to Cyprus can only be expressed if they learn the meaning of the word:

indigenous:

1. originating in and characteristic of a particular region or country; native (often fol. by to): the plants indigenous to Canada; the indigenous peoples of southern Africa. (dictionary.com)

2. Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment. See Synonyms at native. (American Heritage Dictionary)

3. originating where it is found; "the autochthonal fauna of Australia includes the kangaroo"; "autochthonous rocks and people and folktales"; "endemic folkways"; "the Ainu are indigenous to the northernmost islands of Japan" (Wordnet)

4. having originated in and being produced, growing, or living naturally in a particular region or environment (Webster's Medical Dictionary)

Unless Greek race originated from Cyprus, will all fools claiming Greeks are the indigenous people of Cyprus understand now why they are TOTALLY AND UTTERLY WRONG!

I suggest we put this useless argument aside once and for all!!!

Your arguments are no different to those of Murataga; You ASSUME that just because we are referred to as "Greek Cypriots" today we are also ALL from Greece!

What a daft conclusion!

If I were to ask you... "So where are the indigenous Cypriots today?" …you wouldn't be able to place them anywhere outside of Cyprus because there is no such historic evidence that they left the island!

So where does that leave you? On the same pile where you’ll find murataga!

Yeah sure! And guess who is actually buried up to his eyes in the shit-pile underneath. A dufus and a liar who ironically goes by the name of "Get Real"

The original post by YOU that started this thread has this content:

There is nothing complicated about this matter yet many are seemingly still confused. Indigenous means originating or occurring naturally in an area or environment.

The Turkish Cypriot people are the REMNANTS of the Ottoman invasion so there is NOTHING indigenous about them.

They DO NOT ORIGINATE and HAVE NOT OCCURRED NATURALLY from/on Cyprus but instead they first came to Cyprus UNINVITED in 1571.

Every single Turkish Cypriot should RECOGNISE, ACCEPT, and MEMORIZE the basic FACTS of Cyprus which are:

1. The Greek Cypriots are the ONLY indigenous people on the island of Cyprus.

2. The Greek Cypriots have a history on Cyprus spanning 10,000 years.

3. The oldest Greek Cypriot settlement found is older than that of anything ever found in Turkey or Greece.

Anyone who calls himself a CYPRIOT and expects to have any credibility and respect should first start by getting their basic facts right about Cyprus and that includes you VP.

Regards, GR.

Firstly you LIE about the meaning of the word "indigenous" and then set off to prove your point about TCs based on a flawed description of the word. I have already shown the true meaning of the word quoting from many resources...

Second lie is; based on your flawed description, you openly and wrongly stated in (1) above "Greek Cypriot people are the only indigenous people in Cyprus". Again this has also been proven as wrong by the very description of the term "indigenous"...

You lie again when you claim the oldest "Greek Cypriot Settlement" found in cyprus was 10,000 years ago! Can we have some proof of that please? Or is it the case of you mixing "Cyprus settlements" with "Greek Cypriot settlement" now? (see 2. above)

Your biggest lie comes in the last paragraph (3) when you claim the oldest "Greek settlement" found in Cyprus existed long before anything in Greece or Turkey! What a load of bollocks... Prove it! and I'll prove you to be the biggest clown in this forum...

Now I return the same conclusion you put forward at the end of your post:
Anyone who calls himself a CYPRIOT and expects to have any credibility and respect should first start by getting their basic facts right about Cyprus

Since the above prove that both you and Kifeas clearly lack knowledge in these basic facts, I'll let you draw your own conclusions...

[alexISS]

I'll say it again, the notion of indigenousness is very vague, not a single human being is in fact indigenous (or autocthon) to the land it lives, because the whole human race originates from a single area somewhere in Africa. When we refer to people as indigenous we simply compare them to others that live in the same land. A tourist is not indigenous to Cyprus, nor is a Turkish settler or his child. People who have roots to the place, a culture that is connected to the land and a way of life in harmony with it, are indigenous. So, GCs and TCs are both indigenous to Cyprus, it's as simple as that

[Piratis]

BigOz, please stop making totally uneducated comments. Mycenaeans were the first advanced Greek civilization. If what confuses you is the reference to Mycenaeans and then Achaean Greeks then learn that the two refer to the same people.

A·chae·an:
1. A native or inhabitant of Achaea.
2. One of a Hellenic people believed to have inhabited the Peloponnesus and to have created the Mycenaean civilization.
3. A Greek, especially of the Mycenaean era.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Achaean

Hittites on the other hand have absolutely noting to do with the Turks, apart from the fact that today the Turks occupy the land that Hittites once had their civilization.