Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

What does "Cypriot" refer to ?

What does the modifying prefix "Turkish" refer to in the phrase "Turkish Cypriot" ?
What does the modifying prefic "Greek" refer to in the phrase "Greek Cypriot" ?

Does it make sense to add other phrases, for example, "French Cypriot", "Lusignan Cypriot", "Venetian Cypriot", "British Cypriot" ? Or 'Armenian Cypriot" ? Or "Maronite Cypriot" ? Or even "Atheist Cypriot" ?

When does it matter, and to whom does it matter, if and when we include a modifying prefix to Cypriot ?

[miltiades]

Where have you been all this time CopperLine ! Excellent report by the way .
As for adding a " modifying prefix " to Cypriot let me assure you that the only true Cypriots without any sort of a prefix are our wonderful vegetables who on the whole appear to have more "brain " than we do .Has anyone ever heard of a potato being described as a Greek Cypriot Potato or a Turkish Cypriot Potato ?? Same for Okra , mbamies , parsley , oranges and aggouria (cucumbers ) All are referred to as Cyprus produce !
So there you have it the humble Aggouri has more brain than most of us its no wonder it is always preceded by a swear word !!

[Piratis]

When does it matter, and to whom does it matter, if and when we include a modifying prefix to Cypriot ?

It matters to those that want to split Cyprus in two (=Turks). So we want to let them know that Cyprus is one, and they can either be part of the one people of Cypriots where each Cypriot is equal to another without racist discriminations and borders OR be foreigners. The choice is there own and so far they (Murataga and co.) choose the second.

[Kikapu]

I am an Indigenous Cypriot, because the names of my parents are Mr. and Mrs. Amoeba.

Lets see who can go any further back than that.

[Get Real!]

I am an Indigenous Cypriot, because the names of my parents are Mr. and Mrs. Amoeba.

Lets see who can go any further back than that.

Who in the right mind is called "Fruitbasket Amoeba" ???

[Kikapu]

I am an Indigenous Cypriot, because the names of my parents are Mr. and Mrs. Amoeba.

Lets see who can go any further back than that.

Who in the right mind is called "Fruitbasket Amoeba" ???

No No No, not "Fruit-basket Ameoba", just "Basket Amoeba" or it can even be reversed and called "Amoeba Basket".

[Kikapu]

Actually we are referred as the "Fruits & Nuts Basket" of California by others States, but that has a totally different meaning all-together.

[CopperLine]

By the same token the Turkish Cypriot is a descendant of the Ottomans who again ARE NOT indigenous to Cyprus but Anatolia.

So the Turks are indigenous to Anatolia but not to Cyprus, just because they invaded Cyprus a few years later than Anatolia? According to this logic wouldn't the indigenous Anatolians be Kurds, Armenians and Greeks?

Also, if there was a Phoenician minority in Cyprus today, unassimilated and speaking a unique language, would the Greek Cypriots be considered non indigenous?

The bit I don't understand here is the confusion of terms : Using the phrase "Ottomans" refers to a ruling house/family, the House of Osman. The Ottoman empire was an empire originally established by the House of Osman. The original Ottomans ruled over numerous linguisitic groups including Turkic and Greek, and numerous religious groups, as well as numerous subordinate families, clans, tribes and so on. I know what I'm now going to argue flies in the face of conventional or popular wisdom, but the Ottoman empire was not primarily a Turkish empire. (Remember as well, that the first king of modern Greece was in fact not by any stretch of the imagination Greek ..... he was Otto of Bavaria, the new crown of Greece being a special creation of Britain at the Treaty of London in 1832)

As a comparison, the Habsburg empire was not a German or Austrian empire, it was a multinational, multi-linguistic, multi-'ethnic', multi-faith empire ruled by a particular house/family.

So even if one argues that Turks are indigenous to Anatolia - which I don't think that it is so clear as has been claimed - it does not mean that those who came to Cyprus were 'ethnically' Turk .... it could simply mean that they were people from Anatolia, perhaps Muslims, who spoke Greek, or Christians from Anatolia who spoke a Turkic, even Turkish, language.

Historically speaking, many empires and imperial projects are of course led or ruled by a House or family who happen to speak a given language, and practice a given religion, and maybe from a particular 'ethnic' group, but this does not mean that the empire as a whole was of that language, of that religion or that 'ethnic' group.

Much of this is a historical question which can be answered by a historical study. It can't be resolved by speculation, wishful thinking or fantasising a pure and glorious past. For example, does anyone on this forum know the extent and location of population or census records in Cyprus ? How far back do these records go ? How are different people - immigrants, tourists, visitors - described and classified by the record keepers ? For example, in 17th century Cyprus are households actually described as Greek or Turkish, or are they described as Muslim or Orthodox ?

[Get Real!]

By the same token the Turkish Cypriot is a descendant of the Ottomans who again ARE NOT indigenous to Cyprus but Anatolia.

So the Turks are indigenous to Anatolia but not to Cyprus, just because they invaded Cyprus a few years later than Anatolia? According to this logic wouldn't the indigenous Anatolians be Kurds, Armenians and Greeks?

Also, if there was a Phoenician minority in Cyprus today, unassimilated and speaking a unique language, would the Greek Cypriots be considered non indigenous?

The bit I don't understand here is the confusion of terms : Using the phrase "Ottomans" refers to a ruling house/family, the House of Osman. The Ottoman empire was an empire originally established by the House of Osman. The original Ottomans ruled over numerous linguisitic groups including Turkic and Greek, and numerous religious groups, as well as numerous subordinate families, clans, tribes and so on. I know what I'm now going to argue flies in the face of conventional or popular wisdom, but the Ottoman empire was not primarily a Turkish empire. (Remember as well, that the first king of modern Greece was in fact not by any stretch of the imagination Greek ..... he was Otto of Bavaria, the new crown of Greece being a special creation of Britain at the Treaty of London in 1832)

As a comparison, the Habsburg empire was not a German or Austrian empire, it was a multinational, multi-linguistic, multi-'ethnic', multi-faith empire ruled by a particular house/family.

So even if one argues that Turks are indigenous to Anatolia - which I don't think that it is so clear as has been claimed - it does not mean that those who came to Cyprus were 'ethnically' Turk .... it could simply mean that they were people from Anatolia, perhaps Muslims, who spoke Greek, or Christians from Anatolia who spoke a Turkic, even Turkish, language.

Historically speaking, many empires and imperial projects are of course led or ruled by a House or family who happen to speak a given language, and practice a given religion, and maybe from a particular 'ethnic' group, but this does not mean that the empire as a whole was of that language, of that religion or that 'ethnic' group.

Much of this is a historical question which can be answered by a historical study. It can't be resolved by speculation, wishful thinking or fantasising a pure and glorious past. For example, does anyone on this forum know the extent and location of population or census records in Cyprus ? How far back do these records go ? How are different people - immigrants, tourists, visitors - described and classified by the record keepers ? For example, in 17th century Cyprus are households actually described as Greek or Turkish, or are they described as Muslim or Orthodox ?

What is relevant to THIS THREAD is that the Turks/Ottomans are NOT indigenous to Cyprus.

Their exact indigenousness is their problem entirely, Anatolian or otherwise, and they can always start a dedicated thread to figure that out if they wish.

[Kristianikos]

I'm pretty sure that parts of anatolia belonged to the Greeks first ??

Where exactly do turks come from then ??..