Cyprus-Forum.com

[theodore]

[quote="bigOz"][quote="iceman"][quote="theodore"][quote="DT."][quote="theodore"][quote="iceman"]theodore
How old are you?[/quote]

This is very irrelevant question... has nothing to do with Cyprus does it? I am as old as God like me to be... how is that fit for an answer.[/quote]

I'm afraid age does have a lot to do with the subject Theodore. If someone knows your age group then they can decide better how best to respond to you.[/quote]

No my bro this mistake that the GC done... and lost half the island ... you can not deceive this American to do (that is to fool me in your trap, you are a very deceiving person i believe) age has nothing to do with this subject.[/quote]


relax theodore,no one is trying to trap you..
The reason i asked your age is to establish weather your knowledge is by personal experience or education...

By the way,i wouldnt brag about being an American and clever at the same time.generally Americans dont have a clue about world affairs,let alone Cyprus problem...Stick to your Greek Cypriot ID,we can get one better that way :wink:[/quote]
If I am not mistaken, most Americans believe "Cyprus" is a kind of tree and have no clue of the island's existence.

No need to look to far - look what God fearing, self-proclaimed "white American Christian" of a man Bush has got himself with his politics! He maneged to kill more Americans and Iraqis, than Al Kaida and Saddam put together. :shock: :lol:[/quote]

bigOz ...what did i say that make you think i am white or black?
You are not mad at me bigOz ... but God go examine your self my bro ... before it is to late.
I do agree with your statement most churches voted Bush in office (i did not give him my vote... liked Edwards then and now... take care home first you know...)... same churches was looking for revolution but you know God say vengeance is His not ours let Him judge we are to love each other not hate you know. To much hate on earth lets love for a time now we all brothers and sisters in God this is the way i understand things....
Not all Americans like Bush ... from the beginning of his presidency you know, and now even more dislike him but the ones that benefit in monitory ways they are with him still but God will judge my bro you know I personal pray for the Iraqis to find Peace they have not done anything to me you know. God with you my bro.

[DT.]

theodore
How old are you?

This is very irrelevant question... has nothing to do with Cyprus does it? I am as old as God like me to be... how is that fit for an answer.

I'm afraid age does have a lot to do with the subject Theodore. If someone knows your age group then they can decide better how best to respond to you.

No my bro this mistake that the GC done... and lost half the island ... you can not deceive this American to do (that is to fool me in your trap, you are a very deceiving person i believe) age has nothing to do with this subject.

relax theodore,no one is trying to trap you..
The reason i asked your age is to establish weather your knowledge is by personal experience or education...

By the way,i wouldnt brag about being an American and clever at the same time.generally Americans dont have a clue about world affairs,let alone Cyprus problem...Stick to your Greek Cypriot ID,we can get one better that way

If I am not mistaken, most Americans believe "Cyprus" is a kind of tree and have no clue of the island's existence.

No need to look to far - look what God fearing, self-proclaimed "white American Christian" of a man Bush has got himself with his politics! He maneged to kill more Americans and Iraqis, than Al Kaida and Saddam put together.

bigOz ...what did i say that make you think i am white or black?
You are not mad at me bigOz ... but God go examine your self my bro ... before it is to late.
I do agree with your statement most churches voted Bush in office (i did not give him my vote... liked Edwards then and now... take care home first you know...)... same churches was looking for revolution but you know God say vengeance is His not ours let Him judge we are to love each other not hate you know. To much hate on earth lets love for a time now we all brothers and sisters in God this is the way i understand things....
Not all Americans like Bush ... from the beginning of his presidency you know, and now even more dislike him but the ones that benefit in monitory ways they are with him still but God will judge my bro you know I personal pray for the Iraqis to find Peace they have not done anything to me you know. God with you my bro.

hey Theodore....if you're American, what the hell's happened to your English?

[theodore]

[quote="DT."][quote="theodore"][quote="DT."][quote="theodore"][quote="iceman"]theodore
How old are you?[/quote]

This is very irrelevant question... has nothing to do with Cyprus does it? I am as old as God like me to be... how is that fit for an answer.[/quote]

I'm afraid age does have a lot to do with the subject Theodore. If someone knows your age group then they can decide better how best to respond to you.[/quote]

No my bro this mistake that the GC done... and lost half the island ... you can not deceive this American to do (that is to fool me in your trap, you are a very deceiving person i believe) age has nothing to do with this subject.[/quote]

no worries my american bro. then judging by your slogans, I shall assume you are 14 and provide you with the appropriate attention a 14 year old requires.[/quote]

... you are very arrogant my bro even if i am 14 ... look and see when the Son of God charged in teaching the Pharisees in the Temple... they was odd to teach him because of his age but He was teaching them... have you hear of that story.?
i believe i can teach you few things by the grace of God... Do not think your self higher then you need to be my bro so God does not have to bring you low. Judge yourself first.

[DT.]

theodore
How old are you?

This is very irrelevant question... has nothing to do with Cyprus does it? I am as old as God like me to be... how is that fit for an answer.

I'm afraid age does have a lot to do with the subject Theodore. If someone knows your age group then they can decide better how best to respond to you.

No my bro this mistake that the GC done... and lost half the island ... you can not deceive this American to do (that is to fool me in your trap, you are a very deceiving person i believe) age has nothing to do with this subject.

no worries my american bro. then judging by your slogans, I shall assume you are 14 and provide you with the appropriate attention a 14 year old requires.

... you are very arrogant my bro even if i am 14 ... look and see when the Son of God charged in teaching the Pharisees in the Temple... they was odd to teach him because of his age but He was teaching them... have you hear of that story.?
i believe i can teach you few things by the grace of God... Do not think your self higher then you need to be my bro so God does not have to bring you low. Judge yourself first.

you comparing yourself to Jesus Christ now? And you're calling ME arrogant?

[EPSILON]

As far as Greece is concerned they have a "muslim" minority and are often in denial of ethnic Turks who form the majority of occupants in Thrace.

bigOz, I missed that part of one of your posts, I just saw it.
The whole muslim minority (Turkish, Roma, Pomak) is around 30% of the population of Thrace, you can verify this easily. For my answer to the rest of that post see here

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=#186117

alexISS, I always respect your mature approach to discussions and the way you argue you case - but please refrain from doing what many other Greeks or GCs do - namley deny and distort the truth because it is in your national interest to do so! Perhaps I am wrong and you have relied on flawed info from Greek resources which reflects itself in your arguments.

The truth about the Turks in Thrace is not reflected any better than the WORLD HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH! Below is a quote which might enlighten you further:

This report examines the situation of the ethnic Turkish minority of Thrace, a region of Greece. It serves as a follow-up to two earlier reports issued by Human Rights Watch, Destroying Ethnic Identity: The Turks of Greece (August 1990) and “Greece: Improvements for Turkish Minority; Problems Remain” (April 1992).

Ethnic Turks have resided in Thrace since at least the fourteenth century, and they are Greek citizens. In 1923, under the Treaty of Lausanne, the Turkish minority of Thrace was granted a wide array of rights to ensure protection of their religion, language, culture, and equality before the law.1 In addition, as Greek citizens, ethnic Turks also enjoy the protection of Greek law, as well as of the European Convention of Human Rights.

Despite such protections, however, ethnic Turks suffer a host of human rights violations. The Greek state has for the most part been unable to accept the fact that one can be a loyal Greek citizen and, at the same time, an ethnic Turk proud of his or her culture and religion. Turks are viewed by the state with suspicion, the strength of which largely reflects the state of Turkish-Greek relations.

Greece’s attitude toward the ethnic Turkish minority is nowhere more evident then in its continued official denial of the Turkish identity of the community. Greece only accepts the existence of a “Muslim” minority in Thrace and aggressively prosecutes and bans organizations and individuals who seek to call themselves “Turkish.” While it is indeed true that much of the minority is of mixed ethnic origins, it overwhelmingly claims an ethnic Turkish identity and wants to be referred to as such. The Greek government points to the Treaty of Lausanne which, it is true, speaks only of a “Muslim minority.” Past state policy, however, negates such a justification. In the early 1950s, during a period of rapprochement between Greece and Turkey, the Greek government itself ordered the use of “Turk” and “Turkish” to refer to the minority, rather than “Muslim.”

A number of discriminatory measures have been enacted either to force ethnic Turks to migrate to Turkey or to disrupt community life and weaken its cultural basis. The most egregious example was Article 19 of the Citizenship Law, which, until it was abolished in 1998, allowed the state to revoke the citizenship of non-ethnic Greeks unilaterally and arbitrarily. Between 1955 and 1998, approximately 60,000 lost their citizenship under the article. As a result of Article 19 and other discriminatory measures, the ethnic Turkish minority today numbers approximately 80-120,000.2 In 1951, forty-seven years ago, the official census reported 112,665. Given an annual 2 percent growth rate, not high for a poorly-educated and rural community, the Turkish minority, using 1951 as a base, would have been expected to number closer to 300,000 today.3

Religion has been another battleground. A 1990 law granted the state wide-ranging powers in appointing the mufti, the community’s religious leader who also serves as an Islamic judge in civil matters. The previous law, in contrast, had allowed the community to elect the muftis. In defiance of the 1990 law, which violates the intent of the Treaty of Lausanne to allow the minority to manage its own religious affairs, the community has continued to elect its religious leaders, who have been prosecuted and imprisoned by Greek authorities. In addition, the repair of mosques is sometimes blocked by state authorities, and those involved in the repair are prosecuted.

The state has also struck at private charitable foundations, known as Vak1flar, that support education and religious institutions. A law passed in 1980 and a presidential decree issued in 1990 effectively transferred management of the Vak1flar from elected committees—a right assured under the Treaty of Lausanne and preceding Greek legislation—to state officials, who were granted an iron hand over budgetary matters. More ominously, the 1980 law struck directly at the financial holdings of the foundations by ordering that any property for which an official deed could not be presented would be confiscated by the state. While innocuous-sounding, the regulation presented insurmountable challenges to foundations that had holdings as old as 500 years.

Human rights violations in the education field affect the largest number of individuals and have done the most to foster the Turkish minority’s relative underdevelopment. Schools are overcrowded and poorly funded compared to those attended by ethnic Greeks. The quality of teachers is low. Ethnic Turks educated in Turkish universities, which the minority believes are the best qualified to teach, have not been hired for a number of years. On the other hand, graduates of the Thessaloniki Pedagogical Academy (EPATH)—the job candidates preferred by the Greek state—are poorly educated and have a weak command of Turkish. Furthermore, community members claim, not without some justification, that the EPATH-trained teachers act as “ideological overseers.” Textbooks are decades out of date because Greece and Turkey have been unable to implement a 1968 protocol that would have allowed each country to supply textbooks to their respective minority. The two Turkish-language high schools can provide only a fraction of the needed places, resulting in a disproportionate drop-out rate. Greek officials fall back on the Treaty of Lausanne, which only obligates them to provide primary education in Turkish, ignoring the fact that Greek law mandates a minimum of nine years of education. State repression takes other forms as well. Members of the ethnic Turkish minority also complain of police surveillance, discrimination in public employment, and restrictions on freedom of expression. Representatives from Human Rights Watch and the Greek Helsinki Monitor were trailed by police operatives in Thrace while conducting research for this report. Only a handful of Turks are employed by the municipal or state bureaucracies, almost always in the most menial tasks. A local journalist known as a community activist has become the subject of several prosecutions in an effort to limit his internationally-protected right to free expression.

Despite continued human rights violations, there have been some major improvements since Human Rights Watch began monitoring the situation in 1990. Several of the most egregious laws, such as those that deprived ethnic Turks of basic rights of property and occupation, have been repealed. Since our 1990 report, ethnic Turks can now buy and sell houses and land, repair houses, obtain car, truck and tractor licenses, and open coffee houses and machine and electrical shops. As noted earlier, the government abolished Article 19 of the Citizenship Law, though not retroactively. Restricted zones along the Bulgarian border inhabited by members of the Turkish minority have been opened up, although only to Greek citizens. There have also been efforts to improve education, such as creating a quota for ethnic Turks in the state university system. Finally, the 1994 decision to allow the election of provincial governors and municipal councils appears to be a positive step. These elected officials appear to be more responsive to the needs of the Turkish minority than their state-appointed predecessors. Unfortunately, the Greek state changed the boundaries of two provinces to prevent the election of an ethnic Turkish or pro-Turkish governor from an exclusively ethnic Turkish election listp

BigOz - Do not start with Thracke now- you have not finished with Cyprus yet. Step by step, one area by one- do not rush.

When you will get what you came to get in Cyprus then you will have plendy of time for Thracke, Aegean,Athens!!!!etc

For the time being the target is only one - to convist Gcs that they are not Greeks but only Cypriots and brothers of Tcs , both controlled by mother Turkey- big target!!!!good luck

[theodore]

[quote="CopperLine"]Did you write that you are doing research on 'Cyprus in prophecy' ? Say it ani't so, Joe.[/quote]

Yes I am from Abraham to his sons and the relation to the Cypriot problem.

[Pyrpolizer]

Funny this is what the nationalistic Turks at ATCA site tell the TCs. They tell them the GCs are trying to convince you you are only Cypriots to eradicate you later.

EPSILON just go to the Atca Web site and see yourself in the mirror. You are no different than those lunatics. In fact you are the reflection of them.

This is the link.

http://www.atcanews.org/phpBB2/

[bigOz]

As far as Greece is concerned they have a "muslim" minority and are often in denial of ethnic Turks who form the majority of occupants in Thrace.

bigOz, I missed that part of one of your posts, I just saw it.
The whole muslim minority (Turkish, Roma, Pomak) is around 30% of the population of Thrace, you can verify this easily. For my answer to the rest of that post see here

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... ht=#186117

alexISS, I always respect your mature approach to discussions and the way you argue you case - but please refrain from doing what many other Greeks or GCs do - namley deny and distort the truth because it is in your national interest to do so! Perhaps I am wrong and you have relied on flawed info from Greek resources which reflects itself in your arguments.

The truth about the Turks in Thrace is not reflected any better than the WORLD HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH! Below is a quote which might enlighten you further:

This report examines the situation of the ethnic Turkish minority of Thrace, a region of Greece. It serves as a follow-up to two earlier reports issued by Human Rights Watch, Destroying Ethnic Identity: The Turks of Greece (August 1990) and “Greece: Improvements for Turkish Minority; Problems Remain” (April 1992).

Ethnic Turks have resided in Thrace since at least the fourteenth century, and they are Greek citizens. In 1923, under the Treaty of Lausanne, the Turkish minority of Thrace was granted a wide array of rights to ensure protection of their religion, language, culture, and equality before the law.1 In addition, as Greek citizens, ethnic Turks also enjoy the protection of Greek law, as well as of the European Convention of Human Rights.

Despite such protections, however, ethnic Turks suffer a host of human rights violations. The Greek state has for the most part been unable to accept the fact that one can be a loyal Greek citizen and, at the same time, an ethnic Turk proud of his or her culture and religion. Turks are viewed by the state with suspicion, the strength of which largely reflects the state of Turkish-Greek relations.

Greece’s attitude toward the ethnic Turkish minority is nowhere more evident then in its continued official denial of the Turkish identity of the community. Greece only accepts the existence of a “Muslim” minority in Thrace and aggressively prosecutes and bans organizations and individuals who seek to call themselves “Turkish.” While it is indeed true that much of the minority is of mixed ethnic origins, it overwhelmingly claims an ethnic Turkish identity and wants to be referred to as such. The Greek government points to the Treaty of Lausanne which, it is true, speaks only of a “Muslim minority.” Past state policy, however, negates such a justification. In the early 1950s, during a period of rapprochement between Greece and Turkey, the Greek government itself ordered the use of “Turk” and “Turkish” to refer to the minority, rather than “Muslim.”

A number of discriminatory measures have been enacted either to force ethnic Turks to migrate to Turkey or to disrupt community life and weaken its cultural basis. The most egregious example was Article 19 of the Citizenship Law, which, until it was abolished in 1998, allowed the state to revoke the citizenship of non-ethnic Greeks unilaterally and arbitrarily. Between 1955 and 1998, approximately 60,000 lost their citizenship under the article. As a result of Article 19 and other discriminatory measures, the ethnic Turkish minority today numbers approximately 80-120,000.2 In 1951, forty-seven years ago, the official census reported 112,665. Given an annual 2 percent growth rate, not high for a poorly-educated and rural community, the Turkish minority, using 1951 as a base, would have been expected to number closer to 300,000 today.3

Religion has been another battleground. A 1990 law granted the state wide-ranging powers in appointing the mufti, the community’s religious leader who also serves as an Islamic judge in civil matters. The previous law, in contrast, had allowed the community to elect the muftis. In defiance of the 1990 law, which violates the intent of the Treaty of Lausanne to allow the minority to manage its own religious affairs, the community has continued to elect its religious leaders, who have been prosecuted and imprisoned by Greek authorities. In addition, the repair of mosques is sometimes blocked by state authorities, and those involved in the repair are prosecuted.

The state has also struck at private charitable foundations, known as Vak1flar, that support education and religious institutions. A law passed in 1980 and a presidential decree issued in 1990 effectively transferred management of the Vak1flar from elected committees—a right assured under the Treaty of Lausanne and preceding Greek legislation—to state officials, who were granted an iron hand over budgetary matters. More ominously, the 1980 law struck directly at the financial holdings of the foundations by ordering that any property for which an official deed could not be presented would be confiscated by the state. While innocuous-sounding, the regulation presented insurmountable challenges to foundations that had holdings as old as 500 years.

Human rights violations in the education field affect the largest number of individuals and have done the most to foster the Turkish minority’s relative underdevelopment. Schools are overcrowded and poorly funded compared to those attended by ethnic Greeks. The quality of teachers is low. Ethnic Turks educated in Turkish universities, which the minority believes are the best qualified to teach, have not been hired for a number of years. On the other hand, graduates of the Thessaloniki Pedagogical Academy (EPATH)—the job candidates preferred by the Greek state—are poorly educated and have a weak command of Turkish. Furthermore, community members claim, not without some justification, that the EPATH-trained teachers act as “ideological overseers.” Textbooks are decades out of date because Greece and Turkey have been unable to implement a 1968 protocol that would have allowed each country to supply textbooks to their respective minority. The two Turkish-language high schools can provide only a fraction of the needed places, resulting in a disproportionate drop-out rate. Greek officials fall back on the Treaty of Lausanne, which only obligates them to provide primary education in Turkish, ignoring the fact that Greek law mandates a minimum of nine years of education. State repression takes other forms as well. Members of the ethnic Turkish minority also complain of police surveillance, discrimination in public employment, and restrictions on freedom of expression. Representatives from Human Rights Watch and the Greek Helsinki Monitor were trailed by police operatives in Thrace while conducting research for this report. Only a handful of Turks are employed by the municipal or state bureaucracies, almost always in the most menial tasks. A local journalist known as a community activist has become the subject of several prosecutions in an effort to limit his internationally-protected right to free expression.

Despite continued human rights violations, there have been some major improvements since Human Rights Watch began monitoring the situation in 1990. Several of the most egregious laws, such as those that deprived ethnic Turks of basic rights of property and occupation, have been repealed. Since our 1990 report, ethnic Turks can now buy and sell houses and land, repair houses, obtain car, truck and tractor licenses, and open coffee houses and machine and electrical shops. As noted earlier, the government abolished Article 19 of the Citizenship Law, though not retroactively. Restricted zones along the Bulgarian border inhabited by members of the Turkish minority have been opened up, although only to Greek citizens. There have also been efforts to improve education, such as creating a quota for ethnic Turks in the state university system. Finally, the 1994 decision to allow the election of provincial governors and municipal councils appears to be a positive step. These elected officials appear to be more responsive to the needs of the Turkish minority than their state-appointed predecessors. Unfortunately, the Greek state changed the boundaries of two provinces to prevent the election of an ethnic Turkish or pro-Turkish governor from an exclusively ethnic Turkish election listp

BigOz - Do not start with Thracke now- you have not finished with Cyprus yet. Step by step, one area by one- do not rush.

When you will get what you came to get in Cyprus then you will have plendy of time for Thracke, Aegean,Athens!!!!etc

For the time being the target is only one - to convist Gcs that they are not Greeks but only Cypriots and brothers of Tcs , both controlled by mother Turkey- big target!!!!good luck

I did not just start with Thrace now! It has been an on-going discussion betwen myself and others - where have you been inspector Clouseau? So are we now expected to look up to you before deciding what to and what not to discuss in this forum? Feel free to interrupt rudely every now and then, won't you Epsilon?

SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN MAN!

[theodore]

[quote="DT."][quote="theodore"][quote="DT."][quote="theodore"][quote="DT."][quote="theodore"][quote="iceman"]theodore
How old are you?[/quote]

This is very irrelevant question... has nothing to do with Cyprus does it? I am as old as God like me to be... how is that fit for an answer.[/quote]

I'm afraid age does have a lot to do with the subject Theodore. If someone knows your age group then they can decide better how best to respond to you.[/quote]

No my bro this mistake that the GC done... and lost half the island ... you can not deceive this American to do (that is to fool me in your trap, you are a very deceiving person i believe) age has nothing to do with this subject.[/quote]

no worries my american bro. then judging by your slogans, I shall assume you are 14 and provide you with the appropriate attention a 14 year old requires.[/quote]

... you are very arrogant my bro even if i am 14 ... look and see when the Son of God charged in teaching the Pharisees in the Temple... they was odd to teach him because of his age but He was teaching them... have you hear of that story.?
i believe i can teach you few things by the grace of God... Do not think your self higher then you need to be my bro so God does not have to bring you low. Judge yourself first.[/quote]

you comparing yourself to Jesus Christ now? And you're calling ME arrogant?[/quote]

No i am not comparing my self to HIM at all He is infinite and i am finite... I am simply say that even a child has something to teach us... we not to look down at them because of age that's all ... and yes you are arrogant .

[iceman]

theodore
please quote past messages correctly so that we can differentiate your posts from the ones you are trying to quote..