Cyprus-Forum.com

[bigOz]

BigOz I always thought the total of seats were 560. The above result only shows 550. Was i wrong?
You said in the previous elections Erdogan had 363 seats. But if it were so then he had exactly 2/3rds no? So why he couldn't elect Gul for president? (it is 2/3rds that he needs, no?)

Who you think he is going to cooperate with to pass the constitutional change for election of president directly from the people?

The number of seats are 550. At the end of these elections AKP is holding 62% of the seats. For a 2/3 majority they needed 67%. In other words they were short by some 26 or 27 seats.

As for election of the president by the people, The Turkish military had never stated they would be against any such motion - neither will they oppose people's majority will. Hence, the subject now is purely political and to be quite honest, I see no good reason why any other party will oppose any such election process. I believe the legislative change may well go through without any problems - but life is full of surprises, so your guess is as good as mine.

[bigOz]

I don't know what you all think of the Turkish election results from yesterday in Turkey, and I'm surprised no one has talked about them yet. The results were good for a future settlement of Cyprus I believe, because the new government still has the goal to enter the EU and will make gradual changes in their laws and same time improve their economy. I think this also plays well with the opposition party who are the wealthy elitist, so they have something in common to work together. The scarf issues will be buried in no time. This leaves the Military and the Nationalist , a very minute of the 70+ million Turks to fend for themselves. Give it one or two more elections as the ones yesterday, then the military and the Nationalist will become history, as far as having any political say in Turkeys future to move further and further to the West and into the EU. Turkey will need to give up her bargaining chip to enter the EU, and that is the Northern Part of Cyprus, aka, the "TRNC".

I would like to get Bir's and BigOz's take on the Turkish elections.

I am afraid it is not at all like your interpretation above! Below is the table of new parliamentary seats:


As can be sen the MHP (Nationalist Party) had doubled their votes and managed to become the third party with 71 seats in the parliament (from no seats in the last election I believe)!

The ruling AK party had their seats cut from 363 to 340.

I doubt these results will change the general loss of interest and will to join the EU by the Turkish public, especially when you consider other main news of the day showing the Turkish lira gaining more value against the dollar, Tourism levels reaching new record high, interest rates falling further...etc

Ironically, one of the main car manufacturers in Turkey TOFAS has given their workers 3 weeks holidays and closed the factory for maintenance! I wonder if any car manufacturers in EU could afford the same?

?

Bir & BigOz,

Your answers are in line with the reality, however, when you consider the amount of street protests that took place over the last couple of months, you would have thought the house would have caved in on the AK party. As it turns out, they didn't do too badly.

As for Cyprus, I was putting my hopes more on the next one to two future elections where the AK Party will build momentum with the ever growing "religious groups" from the country side entering the mainstream economic and living standards long enjoyed by others, plus those who still see the EU as their ultimate goal for better Turkey and it's citizens. This is when I believe the Nationalist and the Military's influence in the Turkish Politics will be reduced, if the AK Party maintain their present course.

BigOz, haven't you heard, that the US Dollar is in the toilet at the moment, therefore all the countries are seeing their currencies appreciate, much to their dislike, because it will hurt their exports, but it does make buying petrol a little cheaper despite the high oil prices !!. This is George Bush's grand idea to devalue the Dollar as to increase US exports and in return, reduce the Trade Deficit.

A trick he has learned from the Chinese that he always complains about their currency being too weak.

Turkey can enjoy all the success they can bring about themselves, and they need to do it, to even have a chance to enter the EU, but I believe the appetite will get even greater for economic success for the Turks in the near future, and that will come from the EU boost. It will be this economic success hunger that will be demanded by the Turks, that will finally help solve the Cyprus Problem.

Kikapu, you are letting your personal felings take over again! Your thesis above is wrong on many counts:

- The lira has just gained value in Turkey not only against US dollar but against all other European major currencies including the Swiss francs, British pound, Japanese yen, Australian dollar and the EURO! The IMKB (Borsa) broke record levels!

- You are not correct in simplifying the US economics when you suggest that the devaluation of US dollar will decrease US trade deficit or increase their exports / decrease imports. This line of argument is futile because it implies the Americans (or Europeans for that matter) will change their life-style or buying habits overnight, to suit the increasing costs!

I am afraid it just doesn't work that way!

Turkish Airlines do not buy Airbus or any other technological product because they are cheaper than the alternatives, but because of other factors involved. Turkiye switched over to European cars from the fuel guzzling American ones for other reasons. American or European demand for Turkish cotton or hazel nuts will not fall because they cost more now!

Even if the Lira continued to gain value at this rate for the next 5 years, tourism in Turkiye would still be a lot cheaper than any other European Med resort! Hence the volume and high revenues from tourism trade will still continue to increase.

As it is, Turkey import's a lot more from both Europe and USA than it actually exports to them. So in terms of trade deficit, more US or Euro dollars for the same Turkish exports would mean a narrowing in the trade deficit gap.

America has a greedy consumer market where affluence has been at its peak for as long as one can remember. The reason Americans afford to live in luxury is because the majority have a huge "disposable income". If the prices of goods and cost of living in USA are to start rising in par with the devaluing dollar, Bush and Republicans will cause riots in the streets...

A lot of the wealthy businesses are owned by the religious individuals or people in Turkiye anyway! The best example is one of the two richest businesses - SABANCI HOLDING. AKP's success has relied heavily on financing by wealthy supporters. Their success came with employing thousands of "foot soldiers" in all parts of Turkey who made it their job to visit every house in every city, town or major village, campaigning for the party and its policies, years before elections were due! What made them stronger was their supporters witnessing a party keep and deliver their promises to the people.

People's will to join EU and the initial excitement has thinned out tremendously, especially in the light of huge economic developments, strong lira, continually improving standard of living, and increasing Democracy in progress. They may have needed EU during the years that followed Turkiye's application to join, during which time Turkish economy and standard of living was as low as that of Poland, Romania or Bulgaria (or even Greece), when they joined the EU. But that is no longer applicable.

The actual voting statistics show that the number of voters from a wealthier background of the society preferred to vote for the second party CHP( 50%). The poor and the less wealthy ones voted for AKP. Only 24% of University graduates gave their votes to AKPO whereas 42% gave it to CHP. On the other hand, those who are educated to high school level and less voted for AKP (55%) while only 8% voted for CHP.

Often, the less educated and the poor are more nationalist than those who have had a University education, hence, it looks more like the voters' expectations will be a more hard lined government in foreign affairs and EU relations. This is also supported by the increasing votes for the Nationalist Party MHP that have doubled to 14.25% i.e. more than 10 million of the population!

Finally, the problems with wearing of veils or scarfs in many institutions is not unique to Turkiye and has nothing to do with military or their interference with anything! Most countries in Europe now prohibit the wearing of such religious outfits in more institutions than Turkiye does! So where is the problem? In today's Turkiye you can see women with mini skirts and trousers walking side by side with the ones wearing scarfs - and pretty fashionable and nice looking scarfs at that - without any thug pulling it off their heads (as it has recently been witnessed to have taken place in UK on numerous occasions!) Most of European government offices or ports can now demand complete removal of such outfits for "security reasons", whereas in Turkiye, officials would respect people's beliefs and not think of such a demand.

People have made their choice in Turkiye and I hope the country will continue to grow as a secular democratic one, where people's freedom and beliefs are respected by all, and you can see a mixed fashion of traditions and modernisation, harmoniously parading in the streets...

[alexISS]

They may have needed EU during the years that followed Turkiye's application to join, during which time Turkish economy and standard of living was as low as that of Poland, Romania or Bulgaria (or even Greece), when they joined the EU. But that is no longer applicable.

Well, I object

Greek GDP per capita in 1980, when Greece joined (what is now known as) the EU was about 70% of that of France which, if I'm not wrong, is higher than the GDP per capita of Turkey today

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greece

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, you are letting your personal felings take over again! Your thesis above is wrong on many counts:

- The lira has just gained value in Turkey not only against US dollar but against all other European major currencies including the Swiss francs, British pound, Japanese yen, Australian dollar and the EURO! The IMKB (Borsa) broke record levels!

- You are not correct in simplifying the US economics when you suggest that the devaluation of US dollar will decrease US trade deficit or increase their exports / decrease imports. This line of argument is futile because it implies the Americans (or Europeans for that matter) will change their life-style or buying habits overnight, to suit the increasing costs!

I am afraid it just doesn't work that way!

Turkish Airlines do not buy Airbus or any other technological product because they are cheaper than the alternatives, but because of other factors involved. Turkiye switched over to European cars from the fuel guzzling American ones for other reasons. American or European demand for Turkish cotton or hazel nuts will not fall because they cost more now!

Even if the Lira continued to gain value at this rate for the next 5 years, tourism in Turkiye would still be a lot cheaper than any other European Med resort! Hence the volume and high revenues from tourism trade will still continue to increase.

As it is, Turkey import's a lot more from both Europe and USA than it actually exports to them. So in terms of trade deficit, more US or Euro dollars for the same Turkish exports would mean a narrowing in the trade deficit gap.

America has a greedy consumer market where affluence has been at its peak for as long as one can remember. The reason Americans afford to live in luxury is because the majority have a huge "disposable income". If the prices of goods and cost of living in USA are to start rising in par with the devaluing dollar, Bush and Republicans will cause riots in the streets...

A lot of the wealthy businesses are owned by the religious individuals or people in Turkiye anyway! The best example is one of the two richest businesses - SABANCI HOLDING. AKP's success has relied heavily on financing by wealthy supporters. Their success came with employing thousands of "foot soldiers" in all parts of Turkey who made it their job to visit every house in every city, town or major village, campaigning for the party and its policies, years before elections were due! What made them stronger was their supporters witnessing a party keep and deliver their promises to the people.

People's will to join EU and the initial excitement has thinned out tremendously, especially in the light of huge economic developments, strong lira, continually improving standard of living, and increasing Democracy in progress. They may have needed EU during the years that followed Turkiye's application to join, during which time Turkish economy and standard of living was as low as that of Poland, Romania or Bulgaria (or even Greece), when they joined the EU. But that is no longer applicable.

The actual voting statistics show that the number of voters from a wealthier background of the society preferred to vote for the second party CHP( 50%). The poor and the less wealthy ones voted for AKP. Only 24% of University graduates gave their votes to AKPO whereas 42% gave it to CHP. On the other hand, those who are educated to high school level and less voted for AKP (55%) while only 8% voted for CHP.

Often, the less educated and the poor are more nationalist than those who have had a University education, hence, it looks more like the voters' expectations will be a more hard lined government in foreign affairs and EU relations. This is also supported by the increasing votes for the Nationalist Party MHP that have doubled to 14.25% i.e. more than 10 million of the population!

Finally, the problems with wearing of veils or scarfs in many institutions is not unique to Turkiye and has nothing to do with military or their interference with anything! Most countries in Europe now prohibit the wearing of such religious outfits in more institutions than Turkiye does! So where is the problem? In today's Turkiye you can see women with mini skirts and trousers walking side by side with the ones wearing scarfs - and pretty fashionable and nice looking scarfs at that - without any thug pulling it off their heads (as it has recently been witnessed to have taken place in UK on numerous occasions!) Most of European government offices or ports can now demand complete removal of such outfits for "security reasons", whereas in Turkiye, officials would respect people's beliefs and not think of such a demand.

People have made their choice in Turkiye and I hope the country will continue to grow as a secular democratic one, where people's freedom and beliefs are respected by all, and you can see a mixed fashion of traditions and modernisation, harmoniously parading in the streets...

Thanks for your lengthy answer BigOz,

I for one is happy to see Turkey prosper and any positives is always welcomed. It may be my personal feelings, but Turkey needs to aim at the EU, no matter how well her economy is. Large part of Turkey is still needs development. Western part of Turkey is doing very nicely, but not so sure about the Middle and the Eastern part.

The last few years, when ever I booked a hotel in Turkey, it has been in Euros anyway, so the Europeans are well accustomed in paying in Euros, no matter what the Lira does. Tourism will always increase in Turkey, because it is still a very good value for the money.

Unfortunately, the "disposable income" that the Americans have for Luxury items, are mostly borrowed money from the banks. National Debt must be 8+ Trillion Dollars as we speak. It is always on the rise. When I first moved to the States in 1979, it was less than half what it is now, therefore Americans will buy, whether they can afford it or not.

The main thing what the Americans complain the most about, is the price of Petrol. It is somewhere between $3-$3.50 per gallon at the moment, and this rubs the Americans the wrong way. They can go without water, but don't raise the petrol prices. With the falling dollar and rising oil prices, it's going to be a very hot summer for the motorist and the Republicans, come next election.

I find scarfs on a young lady very sexy in fact. It has become a fashion item these days. There are those who want to use it for religious purposes, which I do not have a problem with, but it was the secular groups in Turkey, that raised hell about that being a threat, because it may lead towards becoming a "Islamic State".


As for me, I hold hope for Turkey's entry to the EU, to force a solution to the Cyprus problems, otherwise the status quo will never end. I'm afraid it is the TC's who are being left behind economically and politically during these times, while the RoC continues to prosper on both fronts. If Turkey does not enter the EU, one way or another, then there will never be peace in Cyprus, no matter what happens to the "TRNC", partition with recognition or not, and keep the status quo as is now.

[bigOz]

Kikapu, you are letting your personal felings take over again! Your thesis above is wrong on many counts:

- The lira has just gained value in Turkey not only against US dollar but against all other European major currencies including the Swiss francs, British pound, Japanese yen, Australian dollar and the EURO! The IMKB (Borsa) broke record levels!

- You are not correct in simplifying the US economics when you suggest that the devaluation of US dollar will decrease US trade deficit or increase their exports / decrease imports. This line of argument is futile because it implies the Americans (or Europeans for that matter) will change their life-style or buying habits overnight, to suit the increasing costs!

I am afraid it just doesn't work that way!

Turkish Airlines do not buy Airbus or any other technological product because they are cheaper than the alternatives, but because of other factors involved. Turkiye switched over to European cars from the fuel guzzling American ones for other reasons. American or European demand for Turkish cotton or hazel nuts will not fall because they cost more now!

Even if the Lira continued to gain value at this rate for the next 5 years, tourism in Turkiye would still be a lot cheaper than any other European Med resort! Hence the volume and high revenues from tourism trade will still continue to increase.

As it is, Turkey import's a lot more from both Europe and USA than it actually exports to them. So in terms of trade deficit, more US or Euro dollars for the same Turkish exports would mean a narrowing in the trade deficit gap.

America has a greedy consumer market where affluence has been at its peak for as long as one can remember. The reason Americans afford to live in luxury is because the majority have a huge "disposable income". If the prices of goods and cost of living in USA are to start rising in par with the devaluing dollar, Bush and Republicans will cause riots in the streets...

A lot of the wealthy businesses are owned by the religious individuals or people in Turkiye anyway! The best example is one of the two richest businesses - SABANCI HOLDING. AKP's success has relied heavily on financing by wealthy supporters. Their success came with employing thousands of "foot soldiers" in all parts of Turkey who made it their job to visit every house in every city, town or major village, campaigning for the party and its policies, years before elections were due! What made them stronger was their supporters witnessing a party keep and deliver their promises to the people.

People's will to join EU and the initial excitement has thinned out tremendously, especially in the light of huge economic developments, strong lira, continually improving standard of living, and increasing Democracy in progress. They may have needed EU during the years that followed Turkiye's application to join, during which time Turkish economy and standard of living was as low as that of Poland, Romania or Bulgaria (or even Greece), when they joined the EU. But that is no longer applicable.

The actual voting statistics show that the number of voters from a wealthier background of the society preferred to vote for the second party CHP( 50%). The poor and the less wealthy ones voted for AKP. Only 24% of University graduates gave their votes to AKPO whereas 42% gave it to CHP. On the other hand, those who are educated to high school level and less voted for AKP (55%) while only 8% voted for CHP.

Often, the less educated and the poor are more nationalist than those who have had a University education, hence, it looks more like the voters' expectations will be a more hard lined government in foreign affairs and EU relations. This is also supported by the increasing votes for the Nationalist Party MHP that have doubled to 14.25% i.e. more than 10 million of the population!

Finally, the problems with wearing of veils or scarfs in many institutions is not unique to Turkiye and has nothing to do with military or their interference with anything! Most countries in Europe now prohibit the wearing of such religious outfits in more institutions than Turkiye does! So where is the problem? In today's Turkiye you can see women with mini skirts and trousers walking side by side with the ones wearing scarfs - and pretty fashionable and nice looking scarfs at that - without any thug pulling it off their heads (as it has recently been witnessed to have taken place in UK on numerous occasions!) Most of European government offices or ports can now demand complete removal of such outfits for "security reasons", whereas in Turkiye, officials would respect people's beliefs and not think of such a demand.

People have made their choice in Turkiye and I hope the country will continue to grow as a secular democratic one, where people's freedom and beliefs are respected by all, and you can see a mixed fashion of traditions and modernisation, harmoniously parading in the streets...

Thanks for your lengthy answer BigOz,

I for one is happy to see Turkey prosper and any positives is always welcomed. It may be my personal feelings, but Turkey needs to aim at the EU, no matter how well her economy is. Large part of Turkey is still needs development. Western part of Turkey is doing very nicely, but not so sure about the Middle and the Eastern part.

The last few years, when ever I booked a hotel in Turkey, it has been in Euros anyway, so the Europeans are well accustomed in paying in Euros, no matter what the Lira does. Tourism will always increase in Turkey, because it is still a very good value for the money.

Unfortunately, the "disposable income" that the Americans have for Luxury items, are mostly borrowed money from the banks. National Debt must be 8+ Trillion Dollars as we speak. It is always on the rise. When I first moved to the States in 1979, it was less than half what it is now, therefore Americans will buy, whether they can afford it or not.

The main thing what the Americans complain the most about, is the price of Petrol. It is somewhere between $3-$3.50 per gallon at the moment, and this rubs the Americans the wrong way. They can go without water, but don't raise the petrol prices. With the falling dollar and rising oil prices, it's going to be a very hot summer for the motorist and the Republicans, come next election.

I find scarfs on a young lady very sexy in fact. It has become a fashion item these days. There are those who want to use it for religious purposes, which I do not have a problem with, but it was the secular groups in Turkey, that raised hell about that being a threat, because it may lead towards becoming a "Islamic State".


As for me, I hold hope for Turkey's entry to the EU, to force a solution to the Cyprus problems, otherwise the status quo will never end. I'm afraid it is the TC's who are being left behind economically and politically during these times, while the RoC continues to prosper on both fronts. If Turkey does not enter the EU, one way or another, then there will never be peace in Cyprus, no matter what happens to the "TRNC", partition with recognition or not, and keep the status quo as is now.

I respect other people's feelings concerning the EU and there is bound to be disagreements between many about the benefits and harms of being a part of it. Nevertheless, the response I witness from UK and some other major EU country every time there is a legislative move that will restrict an independent members' own laws or regulations, leaves me in no doubt that the EU is doomed to collapse at some stage in the near future.

My problem is, every now and then many arguments arise between EU member states that can sometime threaten the actual existence of the Union. For example, now the British government is putting a quota on the number of workers that can enter Britain from countries like Poland and Bulgaria. Whilst Cyprus is too ready to drop its strong currency in favour of Euro, countries like UK are still persisting in keeping the British pound note!

The latest suggestion in UK involves a public referendum on whether to stay in as a EU member state, if a single EU President is to replace all the presidents in Europe (recently proposed by the EUP). Somehow Britain does not like the idea of a Greek, a French, a German or a Spanish etc. president telling them how to run their own country. Many are still in awe about the increasing powers of the European Parliament.

And all this disagreement is happening between the European nations dominated and united by the Christian Church. How do you think things will take shape when a Muslim state like Turkiye will become a part of it all? This is the main worry not just for EU, but for the intellects in Turkiye as well. Official comments by German and other European leaders in recent past have added fuel to this fire, when they openly expressed their displeasure in having a Muslim nation in a predominantly Christian Club.

I personally believe Turkiye should forget about the membership but carry on with her special trade relationships with the EU. As well as expanding free trade with many other countries in Middle East, Asia, Africa. Not all wealthy countries in the World are necessarily EU members. I am personally yet to be convinced of any real benefits EU may bring to Turkiye, and feel strongly a very high political and social price tag would be included, if a membership as such is ever offered.

Kikapu, you will have to understand (sooner or later) Europe does not like Muslims or Turks in their midst. They would want to use Turkiye's military strength as a NATO ally when necessary, they would give them preferential quotas or duty rates where necessary, but they will not accept them as a member of the family - not in our lifetime anyway!

The TCs plight is a different one! Torn between the feared insecurity a united Cyprus will bring and staying out of Europe at the expense of sticking to Turkey's support that has been providing them with a secure environment for 33 years is no small decision. The question everyone is asking now is "Do we want to give up Turkiye's guarantee for our safety and trust the GCs in a United island? Or are we really better off staying as we are with our own state - recognised or not - but in an assured ongoing safety albeit with less prosperity than the Greek side?

Now that the mad rush of the early "Yes" to Annan plan has subsided, and people in the North have realised not all GCs on the other side may have genuine good will (like DT or Kefenes for example - I am sure there are plenty more), they are beginning to have their own doubts and are even more cautious than ever before agreeing to live in a united state. Add to this those opposing any form of a deal with the GCs on our side and you might begin to understand why this is not a solution that can be dictated from top by anyone! By that I mean not Turkey, not Greece, not Europe not RoC. The TCs have developed their own immune system and it this what is making them so indecisive at the moment - that includes the current pro-unionist TRNC government and leader who have both started to change their tune since the referendum...

[Kikapu]

I respect other people's feelings concerning the EU and there is bound to be disagreements between many about the benefits and harms of being a part of it. Nevertheless, the response I witness from UK and some other major EU country every time there is a legislative move that will restrict an independent members' own laws or regulations, leaves me in no doubt that the EU is doomed to collapse at some stage in the near future.

My problem is, every now and then many arguments arise between EU member states that can sometime threaten the actual existence of the Union. For example, now the British government is putting a quota on the number of workers that can enter Britain from countries like Poland and Bulgaria. Whilst Cyprus is too ready to drop its strong currency in favour of Euro, countries like UK are still persisting in keeping the British pound note!

The latest suggestion in UK involves a public referendum on whether to stay in as a EU member state, if a single EU President is to replace all the presidents in Europe (recently proposed by the EUP). Somehow Britain does not like the idea of a Greek, a French, a German or a Spanish etc. president telling them how to run their own country. Many are still in awe about the increasing powers of the European Parliament.

And all this disagreement is happening between the European nations dominated and united by the Christian Church. How do you think things will take shape when a Muslim state like Turkiye will become a part of it all? This is the main worry not just for EU, but for the intellects in Turkiye as well. Official comments by German and other European leaders in recent past have added fuel to this fire, when they openly expressed their displeasure in having a Muslim nation in a predominantly Christian Club.

I personally believe Turkiye should forget about the membership but carry on with her special trade relationships with the EU. As well as expanding free trade with many other countries in Middle East, Asia, Africa. Not all wealthy countries in the World are necessarily EU members. I am personally yet to be convinced of any real benefits EU may bring to Turkiye, and feel strongly a very high political and social price tag would be included, if a membership as such is ever offered.

Kikapu, you will have to understand (sooner or later) Europe does not like Muslims or Turks in their midst. They would want to use Turkiye's military strength as a NATO ally when necessary, they would give them preferential quotas or duty rates where necessary, but they will not accept them as a member of the family - not in our lifetime anyway!

The TCs plight is a different one! Torn between the feared insecurity a united Cyprus will bring and staying out of Europe at the expense of sticking to Turkey's support that has been providing them with a secure environment for 33 years is no small decision. The question everyone is asking now is "Do we want to give up Turkiye's guarantee for our safety and trust the GCs in a United island? Or are we really better off staying as we are with our own state - recognised or not - but in an assured ongoing safety albeit with less prosperity than the Greek side?

Now that the mad rush of the early "Yes" to Annan plan has subsided, and people in the North have realised not all GCs on the other side may have genuine good will (like DT or Kefenes for example - I am sure there are plenty more), they are beginning to have their own doubts and are even more cautious than ever before agreeing to live in a united state. Add to this those opposing any form of a deal with the GCs on our side and you might begin to understand why this is not a solution that can be dictated from top by anyone! By that I mean not Turkey, not Greece, not Europe not RoC. The TCs have developed their own immune system and it this what is making them so indecisive at the moment - that includes the current pro-unionist TRNC government and leader who have both started to change their tune since the referendum...

Once again, a good post with good insights BigOz.

If you read any of my posts from last year, you would find I had many arguments with Piratis and few others, regarding Turkey's position with the EU. I too always felt that the EU Christian Club will not allow itself to be infiltrated by a Muslim Country such as Turkey, who do not share the same values on religion, political or the economic development. As for this reason, it would be better for Turkey to push for a "special agreements" with the EU, much like Switzerland has for the last few years. However, unless Cyprus issues are resolved, even the "special agreements" may be hard to come by, if vetoed by the RoC and Greece. Of course the EU will do a lot of arm twisting to settle for a "special agreements" with Turkey over full membership, but then Turkey herself refuses anything but a full membership. Turkey wants to be a major player within the EU Club and not be just an "associated member". So Turkey wants everything, but she also knows she has to let few things go, in order to get what she wants, and that may mean the "TRNC" as well as improvements in all other areas from political to religious freedoms.

"If Turkey wants to be part of Europe, then parts of European values has to be in Turkey".

As far as TC's making a decision to keep Turkey as their "Guardian Angel" for their security or enter into a some form of a Federation with the RoC and be part of the EU and it's laws to be their security, is a good question. As history shows around the world, that nothing stays the same forever. What may have been a lot "insecurities" for the TC's in the past may not hold to be true in the future since the dynamics have changed for the island of Cyprus, now being in the EU. When was the last time we had any sort of a "civil war" within any of the EU member countries, or even against each other. Aside from these EU member countries benefiting economically, it has also removed the hostility factors towards each other as well as towards their own people. At the end however, TC's may not have too much say so as to how they want to decide for their own future, since Turkey will play a major role in that decision making, one way or the other.

Who are the rich countries of the world today. Granted, one does not need to be in the EU to achieve that such as Switzerland, but that's because the Swiss have enjoyed a very close relationship with Europe in it's entire history, as we approach the Swiss National Day on August 1st, when in 1291 the formation of 3 Cantons took place, which there are 26 today. Other rich countries all seem to have a "European Roots" to them also, which is North America ( USA & Canada), Australia, and countries in Europe. Sure Singapore and Hong Kong is also up there, but still with the European Connections, so that's why Turkey wants to cosy up to Europe and not the other direction, to the East. Japan may be the only country who has done very well for themselves, without the European factor, however, rich Western Countries have been a great source to sell the Japanese goods to, which has been a major source of foreign capital coming back to Japan.

"Turkey knows where their future lies, and the question is, can they get there".