Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

We need to prove to all Cypriots that Cyprus is independent and that it is the nation that IS recognised universally as the legitimate entity with part of it under the occupation of Turkey. Are we doing enough ?? No we are not . We march ahead continuously playing the same old "Greek " tune , ignoring totaly the fact that there are T/Cs who also consider this to be their homeland and they MIGHT just object to the continual projection of Cyprus as another Greek island. I'm a G/C but have stated many many times that I'm not a Greek, I'm a Cypriot first and foremost and since there are plenty T/Cs and G/Cs who feel the same way there is a glimmer of hope that we may at the end prevail before the Cypriot identity is buried for ever . There are people on this forum that I have never met and yet feel so close to them because of their commitment to one Cyprus with all its people as equal Cypriots in a democratic environment that is just and fair to all as demanded by the democratic principles applied in all nations. The message our RoC government should be sending to our compatriots is that our nation is your nation , our laws are your laws , our flag is your flag AND WE SHALL DO THE UTMOST TO GET RID OF THE GREEK NATIONA ANTHEM AND REPLACE IT WITH ONE REPRESSENTATIVE OF THE CYPRIOT PEOPLE.Then we can all stand to attention and show solidarity to our nation .
LONG LIVE CYPRUS .

[Kifeas]

http://www.thenewanatolian.com/tna-27804.html

Turkey: Efforts for solution based on two states on Cyprus will continue

The New Anatolian / Nicosia
20 July 2007

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Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Abdullatif Sener said Turkey will continue to strive for a solution on Cyprus based on two states.

Sener attended the 33rd anniversary celebrations of the "Cyprus Peace Operation on July 20th 1974" in Nicosia and addressed a special ceremony to mark the occasion.

"There are two politically equal nations, two democracies and two states in Cyprus. Our efforts for a solution acknowledging these facts and the political equality of the two sides in Cyprus based on two states, will continue with increasing determination," said Sener.

Sener recalled that promises given to Turkish Cypriots --for ending the injustices inflicted upon them for 40 years-- prior to the referendum (for the Annan plan) on April 24th, 2004 were not kept and said this was negligence in the least if nothing else. Western countries agreed to lift the isolation of the Turkish Cypriots but then did nothing.

Sener, said the Turkish Cypriots showed they were for peace in the referendum of 2004. Sener noted that this attitude still continued but this didn't mean that they would give concessions from their rights.

Sener stressed that the Cyprus issue continued to exist as an outcome of the intransigent attitude of the Greek Cypriots and said the address to solve the Cyprus issue was the UN.

Sener regarded the Cyprus Peace Operation as a turning point in the history of Cyprus and said, "June 20th is a national day and national holiday for all of us, we are feeling the righteous pride of this."

Sener emphasized that Turkish Cypriots lived in peace and security thanks to the local Turkish Cypriot security forces and the Turkish Armed Forces.

Sener said that the Greek Cypriot initiatives threatening the peace in the region was being closely monitored and underscored that Turkey was capable of protecting its rights and interests in Eastern Mediterranean.

"No one should try to test Turkey's determination," Sener said.

I suggest the RoC close all the crossing points immdedaitely the only people benefiting are Turkish Cypriots whose aim is partition. They can continue to violate human rights and they can keep the isolations. And dear Turkey can keep supporting them from the American pocket.

Those of you who will ask me to change my signature ..... fuck you ....... loving caring and respectful does not mean allowing someone to walk all over you no matter how big and mighty you are.

Humanist, why are you surprised and angered? Wasn’t the above precisely the hidden philosophy of the Annan plan? Isn’t this the reason it was rightfully rejected and now buried by us, instead of being the basis of a solution?

If I were to give an answer to neo-ottoman thickhead Abdullatif Sener’s slogans, I would have said to him to stop dreaming and get ready to recognise the RoC as it is, if he wants his country to have a European orientation and hope to ever become an EU member state! Isn’t this what Merkel basically has repeated to them, only 2 days ago?

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/euro ... _2nd_Lead_

Bir, I do not think Abdullatif Sener is unusually blunt with the above statements! I hear the above statements repeated almost on a weekly basis by various mainland Turkish and TC officials, and they constitute the basis on which the Turkish side wants to solve the Cyprus problem! After all, isn’t this the reason the Cyprus issue is not solved yet?

[BirKibrisli]

We need to prove to all Cypriots that Cyprus is independent and that it is the nation that IS recognised universally as the legitimate entity with part of it under the occupation of Turkey. Are we doing enough ?? No we are not . We march ahead continuously playing the same old "Greek " tune , ignoring totaly the fact that there are T/Cs who also consider this to be their homeland and they MIGHT just object to the continual projection of Cyprus as another Greek island. I'm a G/C but have stated many many times that I'm not a Greek, I'm a Cypriot first and foremost and since there are plenty T/Cs and G/Cs who feel the same way there is a glimmer of hope that we may at the end prevail before the Cypriot identity is buried for ever . There are people on this forum that I have never met and yet feel so close to them because of their commitment to one Cyprus with all its people as equal Cypriots in a democratic environment that is just and fair to all as demanded by the democratic principles applied in all nations. The message our RoC government should be sending to our compatriots is that our nation is your nation , our laws are your laws , our flag is your flag AND WE SHALL DO THE UTMOST TO GET RID OF THE GREEK NATIONA ANTHEM AND REPLACE IT WITH ONE REPRESSENTATIVE OF THE CYPRIOT PEOPLE.Then we can all stand to attention and show solidarity to our nation .
LONG LIVE CYPRUS .

Thank you for this thoughtful post,dear miltiades...
I think more and more people are realising that what will save our beloved Cyprus is people embrasing our unique Cypriot identity with open arms,and guaranteeing freedom and human rights and equal opportunity for all...As you say the government of the RoC need to have a good look at all its practices,and remove as much as possible everything which is not helping the TCs feel at home in the Republic...The TCs in turn have to demand more realistic initiatives from their own leaderhip towards a democratic solution based on non-ethnic considerations...

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, I do not think Abdullatif Sener is unusually blunt with the above statements! I hear the above statements repeated almost on a weekly basis by various mainland Turkish and TC officials, and they constitute the basis on which the Turkish side wants to solve the Cyprus problem! After all, isn’t this the reason the Cyprus issue is not solved yet?

Hello,dear Kifeas. I was under the impression that Sener himself was more careful in his pronouncements regarding Cyprus,in comparison with Gul and Erdogan...but you are probably following his statements closer than I am doing from here...In the present preelection environment where akp is trying to maximise their vote they can't afford to say anything else...I believe if they win another term they will be more realistic about certain things...Depending on what the military's attitude will be in the new political landscape...

[halil]

Bir, I do not think Abdullatif Sener is unusually blunt with the above statements! I hear the above statements repeated almost on a weekly basis by various mainland Turkish and TC officials, and they constitute the basis on which the Turkish side wants to solve the Cyprus problem! After all, isn’t this the reason the Cyprus issue is not solved yet?

Hello,dear Kifeas. I was under the impression that Sener himself was more careful in his pronouncements regarding Cyprus,in comparison with Gul and Erdogan...but you are probably following his statements closer than I am doing from here...In the present preelection environment where akp is trying to maximise their vote they can't afford to say anything else...I believe if they win another term they will be more realistic about certain things...Depending on what the military's attitude will be in the new political landscape...

Birkibrisli pls read below results and make u comments.
http://www.brtk.cc/index.php/lang/tr/cat/2/news/17363

also for u to make a comments about below news:
2 ITALIAN POLITICIANS APPLY FOR TRNC CITIZENSHIP
2 Italian politicians have applied for citizenship of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

The two Italian politicians were in the Republic for the 20th of July Peace and Freedom Day Celebrations.
1 a member of the Italian Parliament and former member of the European Parliament Maurizo Turco and the other Merco Perduca member of the Transnational Radical Party both applied for TRNC citizenship.

While paying a visit to the deputy Prime minister Foreign Minister Turgay Avci the two men explained their reasons behind wanting to become a TRNC citizen.

Mr. Marco Perduca said that they had been invited to visit the Republic by local authorities to see the current situation on the island and had found the opportunity to see for themselves, listen and understand the people of the island.

Noting that the European Union has failed to treat the two sides on the island equal, and keep its promise to the Turkish Cypriot people, Mr. Perduca said it is obvious that European Institutions instead of working towards finding a political solution to the Cyprus issue are waiting for the Turkish Cypriot sides’ economy to collapse.

Explaining that the Radical Party is not use to only giving its support verbally, Mr. Perduca said this is why we have decided to become citizens of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

‘The aim of our citizenship is not to create provocation but to show EU citizens that the Turkish Cypriot people is the side that desires a comprehensive solution to the Cyprus problem and proved this with their yes vote to the Annan plan,’ he added.

Noting that they were not in Cyprus to support one side or the other, Mr. Perduca said an end must be put to the international isolation of the Turkish Cypriot people and called for the restart of high level political dialog in order to find a federal solution to the Cyprus problem.

‘Establishing a federal state for two peoples with different religious and linguistic backgrounds will send a strong message for the Middle East and Mediterranean area,’ he added.

Mr. Perduca and Mr. Turco handed over the forms they filled out for the TRNC citizenship to the Foreign Minister Turgay Avci.

Upon accepting their papers, Mr. Avci said that the necessary procedure will be followed and added that the Turkish Cypriot peoples struggle to unite with the world will continue.

http://www.brtk.cc/index.php/lang/en/cat/2/news/17368

[Murataga]

We need to prove to all Cypriots that Cyprus is independent and that it is the nation that IS recognised universally as the legitimate entity with part of it under the occupation of Turkey. Are we doing enough ?? No we are not . We march ahead continuously playing the same old "Greek " tune , ignoring totaly the fact that there are T/Cs who also consider this to be their homeland and they MIGHT just object to the continual projection of Cyprus as another Greek island. I'm a G/C but have stated many many times that I'm not a Greek, I'm a Cypriot first and foremost and since there are plenty T/Cs and G/Cs who feel the same way there is a glimmer of hope that we may at the end prevail before the Cypriot identity is buried for ever . There are people on this forum that I have never met and yet feel so close to them because of their commitment to one Cyprus with all its people as equal Cypriots in a democratic environment that is just and fair to all as demanded by the democratic principles applied in all nations. The message our RoC government should be sending to our compatriots is that our nation is your nation , our laws are your laws , our flag is your flag AND WE SHALL DO THE UTMOST TO GET RID OF THE GREEK NATIONA ANTHEM AND REPLACE IT WITH ONE REPRESSENTATIVE OF THE CYPRIOT PEOPLE.Then we can all stand to attention and show solidarity to our nation .
LONG LIVE CYPRUS .

Thank you for this thoughtful post,dear miltiades...
I think more and more people are realising that what will save our beloved Cyprus is people embrasing our unique Cypriot identity with open arms,and guaranteeing freedom and human rights and equal opportunity for all...As you say the government of the RoC need to have a good look at all its practices,and remove as much as possible everything which is not helping the TCs feel at home in the Republic...The TCs in turn have to demand more realistic initiatives from their own leaderhip towards a democratic solution based on non-ethnic considerations...

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote"

-Benjamin Franklin

Given the criminal history of the GC leadership (efforts to achieve ENOSIS at whatever expense) and their current ambitions frequently stated as Hellenizing Cyprus, the fate of the TCs can not be left to the hands of the GC majority. TCs have to have their autonomy/liberty and need to have this safeguarded by a powerful deterent. The hopes, future, security, lives and the existence of the TCs can not be left hanging on a slim rope of "good-will" measures. The fact is that there exists two nations on the island and the denial of this is the denial of the realities and the will of the people. But above all, enforcing a solution that undermines this is the severest human right violation. Any solution that does not allow the people to rule the people, by the people, for the people will be the perfect recipe for pain and misery in Cyprus.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Murataga, i see you are towing the traditonal Turkish line on politics...that being anti-democracy.

[miltiades]

We need to prove to all Cypriots that Cyprus is independent and that it is the nation that IS recognised universally as the legitimate entity with part of it under the occupation of Turkey. Are we doing enough ?? No we are not . We march ahead continuously playing the same old "Greek " tune , ignoring totaly the fact that there are T/Cs who also consider this to be their homeland and they MIGHT just object to the continual projection of Cyprus as another Greek island. I'm a G/C but have stated many many times that I'm not a Greek, I'm a Cypriot first and foremost and since there are plenty T/Cs and G/Cs who feel the same way there is a glimmer of hope that we may at the end prevail before the Cypriot identity is buried for ever . There are people on this forum that I have never met and yet feel so close to them because of their commitment to one Cyprus with all its people as equal Cypriots in a democratic environment that is just and fair to all as demanded by the democratic principles applied in all nations. The message our RoC government should be sending to our compatriots is that our nation is your nation , our laws are your laws , our flag is your flag AND WE SHALL DO THE UTMOST TO GET RID OF THE GREEK NATIONA ANTHEM AND REPLACE IT WITH ONE REPRESSENTATIVE OF THE CYPRIOT PEOPLE.Then we can all stand to attention and show solidarity to our nation .
LONG LIVE CYPRUS .

Thank you for this thoughtful post,dear miltiades...
I think more and more people are realising that what will save our beloved Cyprus is people embrasing our unique Cypriot identity with open arms,and guaranteeing freedom and human rights and equal opportunity for all...As you say the government of the RoC need to have a good look at all its practices,and remove as much as possible everything which is not helping the TCs feel at home in the Republic...The TCs in turn have to demand more realistic initiatives from their own leaderhip towards a democratic solution based on non-ethnic considerations...

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote"

-Benjamin Franklin

Given the criminal history of the GC leadership (efforts to achieve ENOSIS at whatever expense) and their current ambitions frequently stated as Hellenizing Cyprus, the fate of the TCs can not be left to the hands of the GC majority. TCs have to have their autonomy/liberty and need to have this safeguarded by a powerful deterent. The hopes, future, security, lives and the existence of the TCs can not be left hanging on a slim rope of "good-will" measures. The fact is that there exists two nations on the island and the denial of this is the denial of the realities and the will of the people. But above all, enforcing a solution that undermines this is the severest human right violation. Any solution that does not allow the people to rule the people, by the people, for the people will be the perfect recipe for pain and misery in Cyprus.

The nation of Cyprus has exosted for thousands of years . The nation that you are refering to does not exist .It was created by the occupying power and this creation will NEVER be accepted by the natives as anything else other than an occupied part of Cyprus , precisely how the entire world community sees it.
Let me also remind you that the 80% of Cypriots who wanted Enosis (quite wrongly as far as I' m concerned ) were perfectly entitled to demand Enosis being the overwhelming majority of Cypriots, they were not as you naively referred to "criminals" .
Turkey will in time realize that it can do one thing and one thing only.And that time will come.

[Murataga]

We need to prove to all Cypriots that Cyprus is independent and that it is the nation that IS recognised universally as the legitimate entity with part of it under the occupation of Turkey. Are we doing enough ?? No we are not . We march ahead continuously playing the same old "Greek " tune , ignoring totaly the fact that there are T/Cs who also consider this to be their homeland and they MIGHT just object to the continual projection of Cyprus as another Greek island. I'm a G/C but have stated many many times that I'm not a Greek, I'm a Cypriot first and foremost and since there are plenty T/Cs and G/Cs who feel the same way there is a glimmer of hope that we may at the end prevail before the Cypriot identity is buried for ever . There are people on this forum that I have never met and yet feel so close to them because of their commitment to one Cyprus with all its people as equal Cypriots in a democratic environment that is just and fair to all as demanded by the democratic principles applied in all nations. The message our RoC government should be sending to our compatriots is that our nation is your nation , our laws are your laws , our flag is your flag AND WE SHALL DO THE UTMOST TO GET RID OF THE GREEK NATIONA ANTHEM AND REPLACE IT WITH ONE REPRESSENTATIVE OF THE CYPRIOT PEOPLE.Then we can all stand to attention and show solidarity to our nation .
LONG LIVE CYPRUS .

Thank you for this thoughtful post,dear miltiades...
I think more and more people are realising that what will save our beloved Cyprus is people embrasing our unique Cypriot identity with open arms,and guaranteeing freedom and human rights and equal opportunity for all...As you say the government of the RoC need to have a good look at all its practices,and remove as much as possible everything which is not helping the TCs feel at home in the Republic...The TCs in turn have to demand more realistic initiatives from their own leaderhip towards a democratic solution based on non-ethnic considerations...

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote"

-Benjamin Franklin

Given the criminal history of the GC leadership (efforts to achieve ENOSIS at whatever expense) and their current ambitions frequently stated as Hellenizing Cyprus, the fate of the TCs can not be left to the hands of the GC majority. TCs have to have their autonomy/liberty and need to have this safeguarded by a powerful deterent. The hopes, future, security, lives and the existence of the TCs can not be left hanging on a slim rope of "good-will" measures. The fact is that there exists two nations on the island and the denial of this is the denial of the realities and the will of the people. But above all, enforcing a solution that undermines this is the severest human right violation. Any solution that does not allow the people to rule the people, by the people, for the people will be the perfect recipe for pain and misery in Cyprus.

The nation of Cyprus has exosted for thousands of years . The nation that you are refering to does not exist .It was created by the occupying power and this creation will NEVER be accepted by the natives as anything else other than an occupied part of Cyprus , precisely how the entire world community sees it.
Let me also remind you that the 80% of Cypriots who wanted Enosis (quite wrongly as far as I' m concerned ) were perfectly entitled to demand Enosis being the overwhelming majority of Cypriots, they were not as you naively referred to "criminals" .
Turkey will in time realize that it can do one thing and one thing only.And that time will come.

Hello miltiades. It`s been a while since the last time we exchanged posts. I hope this one finds you in good health and spirits. Frankly, I am saddened to read such things from a person like you; especially given some of the credible remarks you made about the Cyprus Problem in the past.

I really don’t care about what you claim for the history of the GCs. The existing reality of Cyprus today is that they are just ONE of the TWO peoples of Cyprus. This is recognized as such by the U.N. and the rest of the world; obviously not as in the form of the illegitimate political status granted to the GCs but as the fact that TCs exist and their status is being ONE of the TWO nations/communities of Cyprus. I will not put references to this obvious legal and practical reality since the space here is limited. By typing “u.n. + two communities + cyprus” in any common search engine you will find millions (at google a little over two million headings for example) of topics that come up with U.N. documents, reports, resolutions, press releases, statements, comminuqiues, lectures, notes and etc. mentioning, stating and recognizing the existence of two communities of Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus. Additionally, the U.N. has been for years calling a settlement with a bi-communal (meaning two communities) and bi-zonal (meaning two zones) structure in Cyprus where both have equal political status. The RoC has come about with the signatories of the two communities, represented by Makarios and Kutchuk, who have both attended, signed the establishing legal documents as the leaders of the TWO Communities. Both Kutchuk and Makarios pressed seal under the titles as Leaders of their respective Communities next to Britian, Turkey and Greece foreign ministers; and not as one under the title of the Greek Cypriot Nation Leader and the other as its Turkish Cypriot Minority Leader. Independence to RoC was not granted as a unilateral act on the part of United Kingdom, but as a consequence of a number of Treaties between conjoint signatures from the two communities (represented with equal status in attendance, confirmation and law-binding). Turkish Cypriots are one of the parties that signed into the establishing legal agreements of the RoC, just as their GC counterpart. The agreements are not between the Greek nation and its Turkish minority but between the Turkish and the Greek communities. This is a fact of the law and practice, hence not subject to your interpretation or perversion. Cyprus is not Hellenic; perhaps the Greek Cypriot community is. The other community is not.

TCs had the right of self-determination in the case which you were granted one. Obviously this was not a feasible solution given the circumstances of Cyprus hence the three guarantors and the leaders of the two communities signed into the establishment of the RoC (and again as representatives of two communities; not as one with the title of Cypriot Nation Leader and the other as the Cypriot Minority Leader). Both community leaders were recognized and treated as equivalent signatories in the Agreements (and all corresponding legal document) by the parties concerned, law and the rest of the world.

If there is anything naive going on, it is that you categorizing the murders, illegalities and crimes against the TCs in the name of achieving ENOSIS as a temporary innocent political vibe that just influenced the crowds for a while. The crime is for the GC leadership to strive for ENOSIS by all means necessary despite that they were the co-signatories of an Agreement that specifically banned this. This crime is real, it happened, it hurt the TCs tremendously and it has gone by unpunished. Unfortunately, ENOSIS did not kept on as a dream for the GC leadership after 1960 but also the objective of their illegal efforts that included even the invitation of the Greek Army to do their genocide work (which ironically was what got them in trouble at the end) against their fellow TCs, ejecting their fellow TCs from the government, enclaving them, attempting to abrogate/change the Agreements and going as far as making this the law, i.e. making ENOSIS the official policy of the State:

The Greek Cypriot House of Representatives Journal of June 27 1967, reported that, on June 26 the deputies had unanimously passed a resolution declaring that the struggle for ENOSIS would continue until the union of Cyprus with the motherland, Greece, was achieved:

"Interpreting the age-long aspirations of the Greeks of Cyprus, the House declares that despite any adverse circumstances it will not suspend the struggle being conducted with the support of all Greeks, until this struggle ends in success through the union of the whole and undivided Cyprus with the motherland, without any intermediary stage."

This was the crime and it is still going on in the form of attempts to Hellenize Cyprus through a reckless policy of not recognizing the rights of the TCs to govern themselves and their need for security.

I am sorry to bust your bubble but: the Turkish Cypriot nation exists in Cyprus just as the Greek Cypriot one. Denying them, violating their human rights (basically security and self-governance in a seperate zone with equal political status) and oppressing them is only going to make things worse and delay the inevitable outcome that they will one day get their rights in Cyprus.

[miltiades]

Murataga , my views are very well documented on this forum therefore I will just react to the following part of your post >

""""""I am sorry to bust your bubble but: the Turkish Cypriot nation exists in Cyprus just as the Greek Cypriot one. Denying them, violating their human rights (basically security and self-governance in a seperate zone with equal political status) and oppressing them is only going to make things worse and delay the inevitable outcome that they will one day get their rights in Cyprus.""""
Denying the 200 thousand Cypriots their right to their ancestral homes is not a violation of their human rights ?
There is and never has been a separated T/c nation on this island , two communities existed and for years lived peacefully with each other. The "nation " that you refer to is an illegal entity unrecognised the world over.Turkey is occupying this part of Cyprus.These are irrefutable facts.