Cyprus-Forum.com

[iceman]

Good morning Kikapu,

In almost all your posts you praise the South and are encouraging TCs to reunite. Not only that but you kick the shit out of the TRNC.

That to me is a clear indication that you do indeed trust them and believe they have the best interest of the TCs at heart. But of course the reality is the minute we surrender ourselves to the RoC we will be worst off then we were in the sixties.

mrfromng,

with all due respect you don't know what you are talking about.YOUR RIGHTS AND YOUR POWER is in the 1960 ROC constitution. You do not know how much power you abandoned in that. Please go to my topic about the 1960 constitution and read some things I wrote.

The TCs are victims of spread lies and FAULTY claims, and emotional drawbacks.

Are you serious Pyrp?

Rights and power? We abandoned? The constitution was put through the shredder the minute after being printed. You had no intentions of sharing power or jack shit with us.

My god you guys are really living in denial. Imagine an abusive husband defending himself by reminding everybody of his wedding vows. He kicks the shit out of his wife, screws around and doesn't show a penny to the woman and then beats her up even more yelling "bitch have you forgotten my wedding vows". Yeah good one Pyrp. I'll see you at the divorce court.

looks like we are back to the good old wife/husband relationship example..

Pyro,I wish the majority of Cypriots could genuinly think like you or miltiades/birkibrisli/kikapu then there would have been no Cyprus problem to start with!!
The great majority of TC's did not want anything but a peaceful coexistence with their fellow countrymen in Cyprus...It was the small minority in both communities that flamed the troubles and as a result we ALL ended up in this mess..
Now...the question is,do the great majorities in both communities have the honesty in accepting their share of the blame and move forward or will they carry on this mud slinging childish arguments as to who started what?
The way i see it...no one is winning...we are ALL loosing from this dispute and time is not on our side..

[Viewpoint]

VP

Just proved how real our isoaltion is and serves as another nail in the coffin of compromise and unification keep up the good work.

VP no one sad that your isolation is not real at all. It is very real. That is why it is important for you leader to begin discussions for UNIFICATION to end the Isolation and for the refugees to return to their properties.

Have you thought that perhaps your intransigence for partition is the key to your isolation?

I agree that our side has not been proactive but Talat extend his hand in friendship from the outset only to be used by Papadop at moment in time which is only for votes. You shoudl not forget that Talats position ismore difficult has he has to balance on th eone hand the hand that feeds him against a possible new partnership with GCs who true to form do not dissapoint Turkey who say you will get nowhere with that community and they do not have your best interests at heart.

[Kikapu]

You shoudl not forget that Talats position ismore difficult has he has to balance on th eone hand the hand that feeds him against a possible new partnership with GCs who true to form do not dissapoint Turkey who say you will get nowhere with that community and they do not have your best interests at heart.

Are you by any chance making an admission, that Talat is just a "puppet" of Turkey and that he can be manipulated and blackmailed from doing the right thing for his people, the TC's. It sure sounds like that's what you're telling us.

If that is the case, it's about time the TC's elected someone with some backbone.

[Kikapu]

Pyro,I wish the majority of Cypriots could genuinly think like you or miltiades/birkibrisli/kikapu then there would have been no Cyprus problem to start with!!
The great majority of TC's did not want anything but a peaceful coexistence with their fellow countrymen in Cyprus...It was the small minority in both communities that flamed the troubles and as a result we ALL ended up in this mess..
Now...the question is,do the great majorities in both communities have the honesty in accepting their share of the blame and move forward or will they carry on this mud slinging childish arguments as to who started what?
The way i see it...no one is winning...we are ALL loosing from this dispute and time is not on our side..

Iceman, you're spot on with your assessment of the past and present situation facing both communities. Rather than wait to see which one is going to blink first, they should both open their eyes to the realities that face the island.

[Kikapu]

We are not just any other country we have a unique past which has brought us to where we are today, without safeguards our future "together" will not be established or developed, the sooner you realize this the sooner you will move forward.

I wish you would for once tell us what these safeguards are. We had a veto power on everything in the 1960 Constitution, and look where it got us, because it was totally unworkable.

Is that what safeguards means to you, to have a veto power on every decision a President makes. If so, go back to the 1960 Constitution and see how far the country will move forward.

Would it not be better to have these kinds of safeguards instead, where a majority rule in a power sharing by both communities, in a proportionate manner.

If we have a house of 100 members (80 GCs plus 20 TCs) and decisions are taken on simple majority, it means that at least any 51 members out of the above 100 members will have to approve it. However, in order to qualify as simple majority, at least 4 (or 6) of the votes must come (included in the 51 votes needed) from the 20 TCs (20% or 30% of the TC members,) and at least 16 (or 24) of the votes must come from (included in the 51votes needed) from the 80 GCs.

For example we can have the following combination for simple majority to qualify.
I take a special case example that needs 30% minimum from each side.

Case 1:
6 TCs plus 45 GCs equals 51 /100. (Qualifies)

Case 2:
20 TCs plus 31 GCs equals 51 /100. (Qualifies)

Case 3:
5 TCs plus 46 GCs equals 51 /100 (it doesn’t qualify)

Case 4:
1 TC plus 80 GCs equals 81 /100 (it doesn’t qualify)

I'll try to hold my breath just a little bit longer, just to get an honest answer from you.

[humanist]

VP

I agree that our side has not been proactive but Talat extend his hand in friendship from the outset only to be used by Papadop at moment in time which is only for votes. You shoudl not forget that Talats position ismore difficult has he has to balance on th eone hand the hand that feeds him against a possible new partnership with GCs who true to form do not dissapoint Turkey who say you will get nowhere with that community and they do not have your best interests at heart.

VP I tottaly recognise this and for that reason the RoC needs to perhaps try a little harder to come up with an offer, it is about going to the negotiating point and taking offers for exchange till we have a solution. I think it would be more advantageous to be working and taking offer for discussion between the two leaders till an agreement is reached. The important thing is tha we agree on the form of solution BBF with Federal government representaing both communites and states will have the final decision on issues affecting alll Cypriot people. Perhpas ven some timelines, for example if they beggin now to unify the chambers of commerce so that TC businesses can come under the one Chambers of Comerce of Cyprus thus EU. Varosha being returned to rightful owners. Turkey moves troops back from proposed border crossings, see this way everybody has given a little and trust and partnership have began to move forward. Later we can begin talking about property, the property commission comes into play those who do not wish return can get compensation, this frees up property in the north. Turkish Cypriots are given an excange to this property that GC's have been copensated. Then GC's are allowed to return to their property those who wish to do so and do not have compensation. More and more issues are dealth with slowly, Turkey withdraws 10% of its troops, Greece does the same, formation of the federal governement is sorted out making decisons laws regulations on the rights of all Cypriot citizens, then the states are formed and governement for each is decided upon.

Slow process that may guarantee equality, safety and social and economic development.

This benefits Turkey as she withdraws the costs to support north CXyprus is reduced as the Federal governement and EU fund are poored into to developing the country's infrastructure

[aapapa]

DT. & aapapa the whole incident proved to the world once again how isolated we really are and how the GCs continue to pursue policies that will never pay dividends by stopping even a friendly football match. Do you realize that we would rather not play the match than ask a GC body for permission that does not represent us in any shape or form. 33 years and you still feel that by using these tactics you can achieve unification then you really have to rethink things as you have made no progress and are unlikely to do so in the foreseable future. Every incident makes us more determined to get the TRNC recogniized, you tried to get our folk dancers thrown out of the Wales show but they told you to go take a hike and the TRNC flag was put on a massive screen and our children sang and danced amongst other countries just like it should be. These will increase and gradually you will loose your control as countires will get fed up with your lack of desire for resolving the problem and constant demand for exclusion of TCs from every international
platform.

You are not listening. I will not repeat myself only in as much as to say that the English FA and UEFA stopped the match, rightly because it was to take place in contradiction to their rules. It's a shame but you isolate yourselves by your insistence on pursuing actions that go against the regulations of International bodies.

[aapapa]

DT. & aapapa the whole incident proved to the world once again how isolated we really are and how the GCs continue to pursue policies that will never pay dividends by stopping even a friendly football match. Do you realize that we would rather not play the match than ask a GC body for permission that does not represent us in any shape or form. 33 years and you still feel that by using these tactics you can achieve unification then you really have to rethink things as you have made no progress and are unlikely to do so in the foreseable future. Every incident makes us more determined to get the TRNC recogniized, you tried to get our folk dancers thrown out of the Wales show but they told you to go take a hike and the TRNC flag was put on a massive screen and our children sang and danced amongst other countries just like it should be. These will increase and gradually you will loose your control as countires will get fed up with your lack of desire for resolving the problem and constant demand for exclusion of TCs from every international platform.

can you understand its not a matter of choice? You do not belong to FIFA and subsequently not Uefa. This has nothing to do with tactics, the entire world is telling you that what you are doing is illegal and you still insist on blaming the GC's. How can a football club have a football game with a european club when the said football team does not belong to a football association that is a member of FIFA????? I really don;t understand how this could go any other way.

What you conveniently forget is that we to have rights on this island and our voice will get stronger and stonger over the coming years, if the last 4 are anything to go by recognition will come sooner rather than later thanks to your intrangient/despot leadership and as the world realizes that in this day and age and with examples all over Europe of troubled countries breaking up these people do not deserve to be isolated or forced into union they do not want: These incidents are reminders and examples of how a so called EU member continues to pursue policies of isolating the TCs and then has the gaul to turn around and say its self inflicted..you GCs are the laughing stock of the EU and will continue to cause them bigger headaches in years to come even the Germans have come to the realization that they made a big mistake taking the "RoC" into the EU. Well they aint seen anything yet as the GCs will use the EU time and time again to keep its current no compromise we want osmosis approach, which is far from the EU perspective.

Oh dear, oh dear. Noe we resort to slogans and propaganda! Oh well!

[aapapa]

DT. & aapapa the whole incident proved to the world once again how isolated we really are and how the GCs continue to pursue policies that will never pay dividends by stopping even a friendly football match. Do you realize that we would rather not play the match than ask a GC body for permission that does not represent us in any shape or form. 33 years and you still feel that by using these tactics you can achieve unification then you really have to rethink things as you have made no progress and are unlikely to do so in the foreseable future. Every incident makes us more determined to get the TRNC recogniized, you tried to get our folk dancers thrown out of the Wales show but they told you to go take a hike and the TRNC flag was put on a massive screen and our children sang and danced amongst other countries just like it should be. These will increase and gradually you will loose your control as countires will get fed up with your lack of desire for resolving the problem and constant demand for exclusion of TCs from every international platform.

VP has obviously convinced himself that the “TRNC” is a country and there’s nothing anyone can say that will change his mind so stop wasting your breaths everyone. My only query is if VP is so convinced that they are independent and so close to “recognition” what’s he doing on this forum?

What exactly do you want from us VP because from our “goodwill” you’re not getting jack-shit if you haven’t already realized and all you can expect from us in the future is even more pressure and a very likely possibility of a military confrontation when the time is right for the RoC.

The Greek Cypriots DO NOT accept this “TRNC” crap so don’t get too comfortable there because you DO NOT have the permission of the indigenous people of Cyprus to “own” any contiguous part of this island and form any kind of independent entity that you aim.

So quit making laughable complaints like “we are embargoed” because you just look stupid and we don’t want to hear anymore of your absurdities; we’ve had a gutful already. Any problems your people may be experiencing today are brought about by your leaders so go and complain to them not us.

GR we have already established our own country the TRNC, albeit only recognized by Turkey we are here to stay unless you come to your senses and realize that you have to share a future union equally with TCs. Until that time incidents like this show the world exactly how isoalted we are and who are the cause, keep up the good work. Do you believe it will bring you what you want? if so do your worst. Even if that means a military confrontation but dont expect us to take it sitting down we will fight back with everything we have but please dont cry about your number of deaths as you only have yourselves to blame like in 1974, some people never learn.

I have also established the AIROP (Aapapa Independent Republic of Paphos), albeit not recognised by anybody but I am here to stay unless you come to your senses and realize that you have to share a future union equally with me, but on my terms. Until that time incidents like the Harringay Ladies netball team refusing to meet AIROP's champions The Crazy Ladies Elite show the world exactly how isolated AIROP is and who are the cause.

[Viewpoint]

VP

I agree that our side has not been proactive but Talat extend his hand in friendship from the outset only to be used by Papadop at moment in time which is only for votes. You shoudl not forget that Talats position ismore difficult has he has to balance on th eone hand the hand that feeds him against a possible new partnership with GCs who true to form do not dissapoint Turkey who say you will get nowhere with that community and they do not have your best interests at heart.

VP I tottaly recognise this and for that reason the RoC needs to perhaps try a little harder to come up with an offer, it is about going to the negotiating point and taking offers for exchange till we have a solution. I think it would be more advantageous to be working and taking offer for discussion between the two leaders till an agreement is reached. The important thing is tha we agree on the form of solution BBF with Federal government representaing both communites and states will have the final decision on issues affecting alll Cypriot people. Perhpas ven some timelines, for example if they beggin now to unify the chambers of commerce so that TC businesses can come under the one Chambers of Comerce of Cyprus thus EU. Varosha being returned to rightful owners. Turkey moves troops back from proposed border crossings, see this way everybody has given a little and trust and partnership have began to move forward. Later we can begin talking about property, the property commission comes into play those who do not wish return can get compensation, this frees up property in the north. Turkish Cypriots are given an excange to this property that GC's have been copensated. Then GC's are allowed to return to their property those who wish to do so and do not have compensation. More and more issues are dealth with slowly, Turkey withdraws 10% of its troops, Greece does the same, formation of the federal governement is sorted out making decisons laws regulations on the rights of all Cypriot citizens, then the states are formed and governement for each is decided upon.

Slow process that may guarantee equality, safety and social and economic development.

This benefits Turkey as she withdraws the costs to support north CXyprus is reduced as the Federal governement and EU fund are poored into to developing the country's infrastructure

So in short you are saying return to the "RoC"? why not look at this in reverse, the GCs allow direct flights and trade and then we return Maraş, GC remove troops so do we, the tell the Pontiacs to go home and we do the same with Turkish settlers etc...isnt this what I have been saying all along a level playing field is necessary to encourage cooperation and trust. But can you really see this happening the GCs are getting ready to re-elect an ex eoka terrorist for a second term.