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How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby BirKibrisli » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:31 am

Kikapu wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:Most of us are too scared to acknowledge that empathy and compassion ,not fear and resentment and insults and hatred,are the only way forward....Most of us are too happy to see the status quo continue,because what you are familier with ,however imperfect,feels more right,secure and comfortable...
:


Totally agree with you Bir.

The sad part of the whole Cyprus problem at the present time is, that it is the TC's who are losing out from prospering while the status quo continues, just because it fits perfectly well with some who are able to dictate for the rest, that what they have now is better than a Unified Cyprus, or at the very least, is to keep hanging in there with the present situation until Partition and full Recognition that may come sometime in the future. When in the future no one knows ofcourse, if ever, but the RoC is just moving forward with every passing year developing further and further ahead of the TC's economically and politically which strengthens their position against the TC's in future negotiations for a settlement. AP rejection by the RoC was a prime example, because they were able to say NO from point of "strength and not weakness". This factor will only get stronger and stronger for the GC's as they benefit greater by being in the EU, while the TC's wait for Partition and Recognition to play catch up sometime in the future.

We TC's do have various concerns in a Unified Cyprus, and no one denies these claims, but what disappoints me the most is, Talat is able to call off a meeting arranged with PapaD under the July 8th agreement which both parties agreed to attend, but did not, over a stupid football game, regardless whether or not these meetings would have produced any results. It just furthered the status quo, further. Perhaps TC's believe that by having 40,000 Turkish Troops and holding on to the 37% of Cyprus gives us the advantage to negotiate through "strength" over the RoC's economical and political strength. To be honest, I don't know which one is more right than the other, but what is very clear to me is, that the RoC is gaining economical and political strength every passing minute, while the TC's are just gaining more time in the "hopes" of achieving our own independent state.

If the TC's cannot put on a friendly game of football without the authorization of the RoC, just exactly what is it that we can do politically to become a "independent state", other than wait for the world to ignore the international rules that they want to be governed by, so that they can help us. In the meantime, the status quo remains for the TC's and greater gains for the RoC.


Greetings,dear Kikapu...
It was a pleasure to read your post...If it wasn't for you and the few others who talk sense and can see the forest from the trees,I would stop posting altogether...One gets sick of hitting one's head against brick walls...Why can you and I and DenizAksulu see that there is no way anybody will ever/can ever recognise the Trnc as it stands,and multitudes cannot??? Is it wishful thinking on their part???Is it the ostrich syndrome???
Or is it more sinister????Do they refuse to acknowledge it because that is the only way to keep the status quo going as long as possible...If I really believed in the viability of the trnc,and if I really considered Talat as my true President,I would hang my head in shame after the infamous football match fiasco...My "President",in his official capacity, was reduced to watching a foreign team kick the ball around by themselves...If that doesn't make people believe that there is no hope in the recognition dream,nothing will...Time is working against our community....But time is working for certain individuals who are making a killing from the status quo...Perhaps that is the terrible fact we need to come to terms with...we do not have a TC community left in Cyprus...We have a collection of individuals who are putting their own greed and selfish interests ahead of the survival of our community...Perhaps it is game set and match... :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Postby bigdog » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:23 am

aapapa wrote:
bigdog wrote:When you choose to emigrate you choose the nationality of your off your future children , Where you are born is where you are from and you should be greatfull for the privlage !


Abit of advise! Next time you meet a Welshman in London, don't call him 'English' unless you like to wear a black eye that is.


If he was born in London he wouldn`t be Welsh
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Postby miltiades » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:06 am

Birkibrisli wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:Most of us are too scared to acknowledge that empathy and compassion ,not fear and resentment and insults and hatred,are the only way forward....Most of us are too happy to see the status quo continue,because what you are familier with ,however imperfect,feels more right,secure and comfortable...
:


Totally agree with you Bir.

The sad part of the whole Cyprus problem at the present time is, that it is the TC's who are losing out from prospering while the status quo continues, just because it fits perfectly well with some who are able to dictate for the rest, that what they have now is better than a Unified Cyprus, or at the very least, is to keep hanging in there with the present situation until Partition and full Recognition that may come sometime in the future. When in the future no one knows ofcourse, if ever, but the RoC is just moving forward with every passing year developing further and further ahead of the TC's economically and politically which strengthens their position against the TC's in future negotiations for a settlement. AP rejection by the RoC was a prime example, because they were able to say NO from point of "strength and not weakness". This factor will only get stronger and stronger for the GC's as they benefit greater by being in the EU, while the TC's wait for Partition and Recognition to play catch up sometime in the future.

We TC's do have various concerns in a Unified Cyprus, and no one denies these claims, but what disappoints me the most is, Talat is able to call off a meeting arranged with PapaD under the July 8th agreement which both parties agreed to attend, but did not, over a stupid football game, regardless whether or not these meetings would have produced any results. It just furthered the status quo, further. Perhaps TC's believe that by having 40,000 Turkish Troops and holding on to the 37% of Cyprus gives us the advantage to negotiate through "strength" over the RoC's economical and political strength. To be honest, I don't know which one is more right than the other, but what is very clear to me is, that the RoC is gaining economical and political strength every passing minute, while the TC's are just gaining more time in the "hopes" of achieving our own independent state.

If the TC's cannot put on a friendly game of football without the authorization of the RoC, just exactly what is it that we can do politically to become a "independent state", other than wait for the world to ignore the international rules that they want to be governed by, so that they can help us. In the meantime, the status quo remains for the TC's and greater gains for the RoC.


Greetings,dear Kikapu...
It was a pleasure to read your post...If it wasn't for you and the few others who talk sense and can see the forest from the trees,I would stop posting altogether...One gets sick of hitting one's head against brick walls...Why can you and I and DenizAksulu see that there is no way anybody will ever/can ever recognise the Trnc as it stands,and multitudes cannot??? Is it wishful thinking on their part???Is it the ostrich syndrome???
Or is it more sinister????Do they refuse to acknowledge it because that is the only way to keep the status quo going as long as possible...If I really believed in the viability of the trnc,and if I really considered Talat as my true President,I would hang my head in shame after the infamous football match fiasco...My "President",in his official capacity, was reduced to watching a foreign team kick the ball around by themselves...If that doesn't make people believe that there is no hope in the recognition dream,nothing will...Time is working against our community....But time is working for certain individuals who are making a killing from the status quo...Perhaps that is the terrible fact we need to come to terms with...we do not have a TC community left in Cyprus...We have a collection of individuals who are putting their own greed and selfish interests ahead of the survival of our community...Perhaps it is game set and match... :cry: :cry: :cry:


I would also call it a day and not post one single word on this forum if people like Bir , Kikapu , Den and many more , excluding the "mother off all partitionists " the foreign born VP , did not exist. We have differing , perhaps views , on many subjects , but we are all agreed on the Cyprus issue. It is our island , my village is your village and my Paphos is also yours. We agree that the Cyprus problem can only be resolved by peaceful means , we agree that our people must never again have to go through conflict , death and destruction on our beautiful island. We agree that we are firstly and most importantly Cypriots and all of us are determined to support a united Cyprus where all Cypriots are equal and where majorities and minorities are secondary.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:05 pm

miltiades wrote:I would also call it a day and not post one single word on this forum if people like Bir , Kikapu , Den and many more , excluding the "mother off all partitionists " the foreign born VP , did not exist. We have differing , perhaps views , on many subjects , but we are all agreed on the Cyprus issue. It is our island , my village is your village and my Paphos is also yours. We agree that the Cyprus problem can only be resolved by peaceful means , we agree that our people must never again have to go through conflict , death and destruction on our beautiful island. We agree that we are firstly and most importantly Cypriots and all of us are determined to support a united Cyprus where all Cypriots are equal and where majorities and minorities are secondary.


I will drink to that,dear miltiades...

Cheers,mate...
I do get gloomy about the whole situation sometimes,but then you pop up and say the things which warm my heart...Thank you,sincerely... 8)
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Postby Kikapu » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:15 pm

Birkibrisli wrote:Why can you and I and DenizAksulu see that there is no way anybody will ever/can ever recognise the Trnc as it stands,and multitudes cannot??? Is it wishful thinking on their part???Is it the ostrich syndrome???
Or is it more sinister????Do they refuse to acknowledge it because that is the only way to keep the status quo going as long as possible...If I really believed in the viability of the trnc,and if I really considered Talat as my true President,I would hang my head in shame after the infamous football match fiasco...My "President",in his official capacity, was reduced to watching a foreign team kick the ball around by themselves...If that doesn't make people believe that there is no hope in the recognition dream,nothing will...Time is working against our community....But time is working for certain individuals who are making a killing from the status quo...Perhaps that is the terrible fact we need to come to terms with...we do not have a TC community left in Cyprus...We have a collection of individuals who are putting their own greed and selfish interests ahead of the survival of our community...Perhaps it is game set and match... :cry: :cry: :cry:


Cheer up Bir, because the SUN will once again rise tomorrow. It is a matter of time before all the money and land to be sold runs out, and Turkey wanting to enter EU will force the Partitionist to wanting a Unified Cyprus, but then our hands will be tied to negotiate anything remotely on "equal basis" and will have to try to get the very best deal as possible, if the RoC wishes to allow us.

In time, TIME solves all problems.

I was trying to get TC's to answer these questions that I posted, which only Zan made an attempt, until I told him, that the RoC will not participate in helping us to get a Partition, which he did not respond.

Is it possible, that the Partitionist want a Partition, but do not understand what the outcome will be, once achieving it.

Here are the questions again.

Kikapu wrote:I should have also emphasized, that any Partition will be strictly against the wishes of the RoC.

These are my questions.

1. What does Partition actually mean to you.?

a) the "TRNC" is a recognised Country?
b) the "TRNC" gets to have Direct Trade and Flights?
c) the "TRNC" will make an application to the EU to become a member?
d) the "TRNC" will no longer have to deal with the GC property claims?
e) the "TRNC" will no longer need Turkey's financial and military
support?
f) the "TRNC" will be welcomed by the RoC as good neighbours?
g) the "TRNC" will become a prosperous and productive Country.?

2. How does the Partition help the "TRNC".?

a) Other than Tourism, what other Trade the "TRNC" can offer
to the outside world that is not already available to those
countries.?
b) Will the "TRNC" be able to export anymore goods than they
already export to Turkey now.?
c) How does the "TRNC" ever expect to enter the EU along with
Turkey.?
d) After Partition, what is to stop Turkey annexing the "TRNC" if neither
will be accepted into the EU.?
e) What goods can be imported into the "TRNC", that they are not
available right now via Turkey.?
f) How can the "TRNC" have a Government and run a country with
such small population without "Heavy Corruption" because it will be
the case of, most people will know someone that knows someone in
the Government and will ask for favours.?
g) Will the "TRNC" TC's tear up their RoC passports, once they got their
Partition or will the RoC do it for them, as no longer being Citizens
of the RoC.?

3. Can most of the items above NOT be achieved through a "TRUE
BBF". Is Partition really necessary, even if it means, there will
be some Greek spoken around some TC's.?


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Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:11 pm

Birkibrisli wrote:We seem to have to reinvent the wheel every time someone new joins the forum...aapapa is right to be puzzled of course...why oh why do we spend so much time regurgitating the past????The simple answer aapapa is that we have not learned anything from the past...We have become frozen in a timezone or two timezones to be exact (1955 to 1974 and post 1974) because we have refused to take the neccessary steps to help get us over our historical fear and distrust of each other...Most of us even refuse to accept that we are one people,one nation,divided by two artificial factors (language and religion)...Most of us refuse to see how foreign interests have gone about dividing and ruling us...Most of us refuse to see that the only just and lasting solution is to embrace our Cypriotness and reunify around our legal Constitution....Most of us knowingly or unknowingly indulge in propaganda activities,making sure that the division and scars of our homeland can never be healed...Most of us are too scared to acknowledge that empathy and compassion ,not fear and resentment and insults and hatred,are the only way forward....Most of us are too happy to see the status quo continue,because what you are familier with ,however imperfect,feels more right,secure and comfortable...
To cut a long story short,aapapa,we have not evolved much as human beings since the times of the cavemen and cavewomen...We just pretend we have...Scratch the surface and we are like wild animals desperately defending our own territory against the barbarian hordes who want to come and take our fire from us....That is why we keep repeating the mistakes of then past...The future is toooooscarrrryyyy for most of us....
What do they say??? The future is a foreign country??? Do they really say that or is my mind playing tricks on me???? :wink: :lol:


YOU HAVE Birkibrisli gardash. :!:
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:29 pm

denizaksulu wrote: I could not have put it better than you have, Kikapu


I am schocked!!! As soon as I read Kikapus post I told myself, well my poor friend Kikapu just wait and see how many kicks you will get from the Cypriots who speak Turkish. What a nice surprise DA. (Oh I forgot you are on vocation, hope you read this someday)

@ Kikapu:

I don’t know if the GCs voted no to the Anan Plan from a position of strength (perhaps you are right), but for me personally I felt it was one of the worst days of my life.Imagine waiting a solution for 30+ years and when it finally comes you have no other option but to refuse it.

And I know I am not the only one who felt like that.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:43 pm

Kikapu wrote: Is it possible, that the Partitionist want a Partition, but do not understand what the outcome will be, once achieving it.


It is quite possible dear Kikapu. Exactly like the GCs were wanting Enosis without even ever having visited Greece to see with their own eyes what would that mean.
Exactly the same way the TCs thought that the karasakalis would save them.

Partition would first mean the total erase of the TC community from Cyprus, and then a million settlers flooding the northern area and leaking to the south area and perhaps kicking the GCs out too.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:59 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:We seem to have to reinvent the wheel every time someone new joins the forum...aapapa is right to be puzzled of course...why oh why do we spend so much time regurgitating the past????The simple answer aapapa is that we have not learned anything from the past...We have become frozen in a timezone or two timezones to be exact (1955 to 1974 and post 1974) because we have refused to take the neccessary steps to help get us over our historical fear and distrust of each other...Most of us even refuse to accept that we are one people,one nation,divided by two artificial factors (language and religion)...Most of us refuse to see how foreign interests have gone about dividing and ruling us...Most of us refuse to see that the only just and lasting solution is to embrace our Cypriotness and reunify around our legal Constitution....Most of us knowingly or unknowingly indulge in propaganda activities,making sure that the division and scars of our homeland can never be healed...Most of us are too scared to acknowledge that empathy and compassion ,not fear and resentment and insults and hatred,are the only way forward....Most of us are too happy to see the status quo continue,because what you are familier with ,however imperfect,feels more right,secure and comfortable...
To cut a long story short,aapapa,we have not evolved much as human beings since the times of the cavemen and cavewomen...We just pretend we have...Scratch the surface and we are like wild animals desperately defending our own territory against the barbarian hordes who want to come and take our fire from us....That is why we keep repeating the mistakes of then past...The future is toooooscarrrryyyy for most of us....
What do they say??? The future is a foreign country??? Do they really say that or is my mind playing tricks on me???? :wink: :lol:


YOU HAVE Birkibrisli gardash. :!:


:oops: :oops:
Thank you,Pyro gardash...
You are not doing too badly yourself :!:
It is not good to generalise,I know,but I get so frustrated sometimes...I am sure you know the feeling...Best regards
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Postby BirKibrisli » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:06 am

Kikapu wrote:Cheer up Bir, because the SUN will once again rise tomorrow. It is a matter of time before all the money and land to be sold runs out, and Turkey wanting to enter EU will force the Partitionist to wanting a Unified Cyprus, but then our hands will be tied to negotiate anything remotely on "equal basis" and will have to try to get the very best deal as possible, if the RoC wishes to allow us.

In time, TIME solves all problems.


Yeah....Like in TIME we will all be dead.... :!:

Thanks for trying to cheer me up,Kikapu... :wink: :lol:
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