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[Alexandros Lordos]

My main concern however is still the property issue. The right of return should be respected for ALL refugees. Instaed of giving compensation to the refugee why not give compensation to the person residing in refugee property, taking account of the amount of money invested? The choice should be left to the refugee - if they want their property back they get it, if not then they get compensation and they can use that to build a home wherever they wish. My vote goes to the property issue.

The problem here Mikkie, is that giving such absolute rights to the original owners of property would totally disrupt the life of the TC community - and very likely cause them to vote "No" in the next referendum.

Also there are serious economic concerns here: If invested properties are not protected, this means that many of the TC businesses that have been set up since 1974, and many of the new TC houses that have been built (just think about a block of apartments built on GC land), will all revert to original owners of the land, causing a massive relocation problem, and leading many TC businesses to bankruptcy. Furthermore, the HUGE amounts of compensation that will be required will massively increase the cost of the solution, and put serious inflationary pressures on the economy.

The only further concession on the issue of property that I can imagine working out, will be to add an "encouragement clause" such that original owners (who are now entitled to the "new home") and current occupants (who are entiteld to the "original home") will be encouraged to reach an agreement amongst themselves, concerning who will get the new home and who will get the original home. In fact, both would most probably prefer the new home, for obvious reasons, so I do not see a quarrel developing. If the GC refugee is happy with the new home, then he keeps it. If he prefers his original home for nostalgia reasons, then he can easily ... convince (!) the current occupant to accept a brand new home instead.

[Alexandros Lordos]

I think this will mainy apply to GCs living in the north because they are more likely to compose 20% of the population in the north. I don't expect TCs population in the south being more than 5%. Having said that, this effectively means TCs will have less control of Turkish/Northern constituent state than GCs control of Greek/Southern state which might be hard for TCs to accept. One change could be the following. Regardless of where they will, all TCs vote in the Northern state and all GCs vote in the Southern state but final results are subject to a weighted voting system of equal percentage. For example, TCs will have, say 10%, influence in Southern State Senate and the Governer and GCs will have the same 10% influence in the Northern State Senate and the Governer.

Mete,

I understand your concern here: With my proposal GCs will end up controlling 20% of the TC state's vote, whereas TCs will only control 10% of the GC state's vote.

However, I think the solution you propose would not be optimal, for the following two reasons:

a. In local elections, people who live in that locality are supposed to vote, and no one else. Why should a GC resident of Limassol have a say on who the TC state governor should be?
b. People would get "election fatigue" if as well as their own constituent state's politics they have to follow the politics of the other state as well.

A simple way to solve the problem is to reduce the threshold for the 20% weight, from 7% down to 5%. This percent is realistic for TCs to achieve, and so eventually they too will have 20% say in the south just as GCs will have a 20% say in the north.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Will there be a maximum amount of GCs who can live in the north and TCs who live in the south?

Ok, I forgot to mention residence restrictions. These are my thoughts:

For the first 3 to 5 years, no relocation in the other state will be allowed. The meaning of this embargo is to allow the Reconciliation Commission to prepare the ground first, and prepare the TCs to accept GC neighbors (not all TCs think like our friends in this forum about us). Furthermore, the first three to five years will be filled with property disputes and internal relocation concerns for TCs who will have to vacate their properties, and the climate will be inevitably tense. So the embargo is meant to prevent outbreaks of violence.

After this 3 to 5 year period, GCs will be allowed to relocate in the north up to a ceiling proportion of 33% of the TC state's population. This of course does not include those who will go to the north either to just work or to just have a holiday home - there will be no restriction on those.

After 20 years, the whole issue of residence restrictions based on ethnic origin will come under review from the Constitutional Assembly, and if both GCs and TCs agree then they can be abolished.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Jimmy, thanks for your detailed comments and your kind words

Here follow my responses:

Why would the Protection Pact to be signed involve Greece (when it already involves the EU)? Why not just Turkey (the Pact to be applicable only in the ‘Northern State’), with the provision for Turkey’s role to end with its accession to the EU?

Well, the EU as a collective body is one thing, and Greece (or Turkey) as sovereign nations, is quite another. GCs will need the guarantee of Greece in order to balance the guarantee that TCs will have from Turkey.

Turkey's role should not end when she enters the EU, because that would make the TCs highly insecure (I think). Instead, Turkey's role should be strictly limited, to the protection of TCs against the ... "threat" of GC aggression. Of course, you and I know that there is no such threat, but our TC friends can't believe us yet.

Anyway, the whole issue of intervention rights - even to this limited extent - will come under review from the Constitutional Assembly 20 years from now. If GCs and TCs feel secure with one another by then, all proptection pacts can be cancelled with mutual consent.

What need is there to maintain an army?

Hmm, many needs: Firstly, GCs would feel insecure if Cyprus was dimilitarized and Turkey was 50 miles away. Secondly, TCs would feel insecure at the thought that if GC militia were formed there would be no army to stop them. Thirdly, we live in a dangerous part of the world, and we should be able to defend ourselves against external aggression.

What body is to decide the amount of the ‘emotional distress damages’? I understand that these damages are to be paid by Greece and Turkey. What, then, guarantees that Greece and Turkey would accept every single decision of this body? Should they be represented, as well, in the body?

Well, the emotional damages will be decided in advance of the agreement, at the same level for each refugee. The really difficult part though will be to agree on how much the "net-rent" compensation for loss of use will be. Obviously, a special court would have to be instituted, neutral as far as possible, with its rulings binding for Greece and Turkey.

There will not be an extra quota of “5% of the constituent state population”. 45,000 will be the final number.

What exactly is the meaning here? Is that to say that no more than these 45,000 will be entitled to citizenship (ever)? Obviously not, so what am I missing?

Well, I suppose the details of this will be resolved in the Federal Law to maintain the demographic balance of Cyprus, which will have to be a part of the Comprehensive Settlement. Certainly, I do not see any more Turkish Immigrants coming to Cyprus in the first twenty years, and after that some sort of formula will have to be found to allow very limited immigration. Temporary work permits, will of course be granted more liberally.

Who is to pay for the free media time to be made available to the Reconciliation Committee?

That's an easy one: No one will . It will be the media's contribution to the Solution, and a prerequisite for them to be granted a broadcasting licence.

The Constitutional Assembly will have the power to amend the Constitution? Why not simply propose amendments, to be voted upon by means of separate referenda, thus employing the 'people's will' principle?

Hmm, that's a two-edged sword ... if you get referenda as well, it will be more democratic, but the whole process will be more vulnerable to populist rhetoric. Whereas if the people just elect those who they trust to amend the constitution, more serious work might get done. Having said that, I am open to consider referenda as well ...

[insan]

The meaning of this embargo is to allow the Reconciliation Commission to prepare the ground first, and prepare the TCs to accept GC neighbors (not all TCs think like our friends in this forum about us).

I'm sure the GC neighbours of TCs will also be prepared in order not to cause any tensions where they will live. Otherwise the proudy TCs would reject this "preparation". Most probably, such a reaction would occure:"Why should you prepare us to accept them as our neighbours. You go prepare GCs. They need to be prepared for peaceful co-existence!"

GCs should avoid giving such a message, "We are well educated and civilized community, It's TC community that needs education and civilaziation."

[Alexandros Lordos]

The meaning of this embargo is to allow the Reconciliation Commission to prepare the ground first, and prepare the TCs to accept GC neighbors (not all TCs think like our friends in this forum about us).

I'm sure the GC neighbours of TCs will also be prepared in order not to cause any tensions where they will live. Otherwise the proudy TCs would reject this "preparation". Most probably, such a reaction would occure:"Why should you prepare us to accept them as our neighbours. You go prepare GCs. They need to be prepared for peaceful co-existence!"

GCs should avoid giving such a message, "We are well educated and civilized community, It's TC community that needs education and civilaziation."

OK Insan, point well made ...

In my post I was talking to a GC who is concerned about the right of GCs to return to the north, that's why I focused on the need to educate TCs.

Of course, GCs need just as much education as the TCs. No question about that.

[insan]

Turkey's role should not end when she enters the EU, because that would make the TCs highly insecure (I think). Instead, Turkey's role should be strictly limited, to the protection of TCs against the ... "threat" of GC aggression. Of course, you and I know that there is no such threat, but our TC friends can't believe us yet.

Here we go again! Here again you are giving the same message that TC and Turkish extremists constitute threat for GCs but GC and Greek extremists do not. I can't understand what makes your race superior to TCs and Turks! With this mentality, now I more strongly believe that education bears paramount importance to all other elements of reunification. Sorry! You can academaicaly have good carrier and know how to read and write but still arrogant!

[Saint Jimmy]

Turkey's role should not end when she enters the EU, because that would make the TCs highly insecure (I think). Instead, Turkey's role should be strictly limited, to the protection of TCs against the ... "threat" of GC aggression. Of course, you and I know that there is no such threat, but our TC friends can't believe us yet.

Here we go again! Here again you are giving the same message that TC and Turkish extremists constitute threat for GCs but GC and Greek extremists do not. I can't understand what makes your race superior to TCs and Turks! With this mentality, now I more strongly believe that education is paramount to all other elements of reunification. Sorry! You can academaicaly have good carrier and know how to read and write but still arrogant!

Ummm... I didn't get that message out of what Alexandros wrote, Insan!
Perhaps you might want to read again what he wrote and then what you got out of it...?

Alexandros, thanx for your response. It's much clearer now and I can accept your arguments.
Where is this draft going?

[Alexandros Lordos]

Turkey's role should not end when she enters the EU, because that would make the TCs highly insecure (I think). Instead, Turkey's role should be strictly limited, to the protection of TCs against the ... "threat" of GC aggression. Of course, you and I know that there is no such threat, but our TC friends can't believe us yet.

Here we go again! Here again you are giving the same message that TC and Turkish extremists constitute threat for GCs but GC and Greek extremists do not. I can't understand what makes your race superior to TCs and Turks! With this mentality, now I more strongly believe that education is paramount to all other elements of reunification. Sorry! You can academaicaly have good carrier and know how to read and write but still arrogant!

Insan,

firstly, my apologies if I insulted you. This is the kind of thing that happens when you are talking with one person and someone else overhears the conversation out of context.

When I say that "I don't believe that GCs constitute a threat to TCs", I mean as Community-to-Community. Of course, there are GC extremists that have to be dealt with, but Turkish guarantees won't help you with those: It's rather a matter of good police work and, as you say, education.

What I certainly believe WILL NOT happen, knowing my own community, is that suddenly all the GCs will gang up against the TCs, and try to "invade" the northern constituent state. And yet, many TCs (correct me if I am wrong) fear precisely such an eventuality.

Forgive me for being arrogant. It is indeed one of my weaknesses.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Where is this draft going?

For now, it is going to another round of polls, to test whether it is indeed acceptable to both communities.

And then we see ...