Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

be careful dont insult erolz he might get upset and leave

[MicAtCyp]

Kifeas,

If Insans interepretation was not twisted, if the demands I referred to, were not paranoid, is upto him to prove me wrong!
I agree my tone was aggressive thats one of my "passions" (as per Erol’s accurate terminology). Your points were duly noted.

majority rule. Frightening thought.

Yeah Partitionlu, frightening thought.... Go live in the minority rule World e.g At Hitler land or Tsaousheskou land.Thinking of it the pseudoland is fine for you too. Make sure however you are a part of the ruling minority, otherwise you will be in biiig trouble.

What an insult! We succeeded to stop Enosis, and even that is a huge accomplishment by itself. Do you really expect that any TC will read your post and not get offended? What's the point of posting if you're not trying to communicate?

It would be an insult if I was referring to what you said. However the point of discussion was to succeed ecconomically under a "struggle" of extremely difficult conditions.Please read the original part to which I was answering.

Nobody denies this reality and no TC (maybe except Denktash) wants 50-50 on everything. What we want is a powerful checks & balances system (better than 1960 since it didn't work out) where we can be sure that we won't be excluded from decision-making for another 40 years. That's it. That's what you have to swallow.

Question No 1:Are you sure it's only Denktash?
Q2: Are you sure this is NOT what the majority of TCs have in mind?
Q3: Can you explain me how this powerful system can apply without violating the most basic human rights of GCs?
Q4: Do you know that the majority of TCs translate this more "powerful system" as more rights compared to the 1960?
Q5: Do you disagree that the 1960 contsitution failed for 2 reasons i.e a)Enosis dream of GCs b)much more than "Political equality securing rights" for TCs? Having the Enosis dream dead today, don't you agree that a system with even more rights will fail again?

In my opinion it is not more rights that we need. It is a new set of rights that will quarantee a sharing of political power that on some areas will be absolute sharing 50-50 and proportional to the rest. Or an adjustement of rights if the TCs decide to return to the 1960 system.

[MicAtCyp]

On the other hand look at how everybody jumped up!

[Viewpoint]

MicAtCyp

Viewpoint wrote:
majority rule. Frightening thought.

Yeah Partitionlu, frightening thought.... Go live in the minority rule World e.g At Hitler land or Tsaousheskou land.Thinking of it the pseudoland is fine for you too. Make sure however you are a part of the ruling minority, otherwise you will be in biiig trouble.

You took the quote right out of context, it was linked to GCs having guns in their homes to use against us thats how you impose majority rule obviously you didnt understand the intricate difference.

I live in a land where I dont think of majority minority issues as we all have the same rights but I cant really say the same if I were to live with GCs, thats a major problem for many TCs, this uncertainty and mistrust of GCs true intentions. The unique structure of the Cyprus issue pushes us towards demanding rights that would normally not be necessary in other countries this is surely a reflection on GCs and how we percieve and react to their overall mentality and persona. Dont you feel that you should at least be trying to change this image GCs have in many TCs minds rather than reinforce it time and time again by words and actions.

[Viewpoint]

One last point here u weild partiton "Partitionlu" like its a dirty word, you should think of it as another real possibility for a final solution.

[metecyp]

It would be an insult if I was referring to what you said. However the point of discussion was to succeed ecconomically under a "struggle" of extremely difficult conditions.Please read the original part to which I was answering.

What you said was "By staying poor? Or by depending on others? When exactly did your community ever struggled and succeeded?". How the hell I'm supposed to figure out that you mean economically? What if I say "What did GC ever do for Cyprus except bring death and misery?" and in my head, I refer to the time between 1963-1974? It's still an insult but I don't expect anything from you because apparantly you're too proud to accept and apologize for your mistakes.

Question No 1:Are you sure it's only Denktash?

It's Denktash and his circle.

Q2: Are you sure this is NOT what the majority of TCs have in mind?

Well, isn't it also true that majority of GCs have return of all refugees, one-man one-vote, TC being minority (politically) in mind? What we want ideally and what we are ready to accept are 2 different things, just like your community. Most TCs will be happy with bicommunal bizonal federation.

Q3: Can you explain me how this powerful system can apply without violating the most basic human rights of GCs?

Some rights will be violated. I'm not going to says that "all refugees will return back". They won't and your leadership has been deceiving you that they will. Whenever you talk about bizonality, you know that some refugee rights will be violated. Some TCs who left some land in the south won't get their lands back, some GCs who left their lands in the north won't get their lands back. But I think it's for the greater good.

Q4: Do you know that the majority of TCs translate this more "powerful system" as more rights compared to the 1960?

Not necessarily more rights than 1960. For example, I don't think that any TC will insist on 70-30 rule in governmental jobs. But it will mean bizonality which is very important for us. It will also mean some level of autonomy in the state level and power sharing at the federal level.

Q5: Do you disagree that the 1960 contsitution failed for 2 reasons i.e a)Enosis dream of GCs b)much more than "Political equality securing rights" for TCs? Having the Enosis dream dead today, don't you agree that a system with even more rights will fail again?

The 1960 constitution wouldn't have failed if GCs respected the rights of TCs in the RoC. Yes, TCs may have been looking for excuses to abandon the RoC but at the same time, you can't expect much when one side tried so hard to make the RoC a pure GC state and then declare Enosis.

We're not necessarily looking for more rights. We're looking for more guarantees that we won't be excluded from decision-making for another 40 years. And this is perfectly justified not only by the past but today as well. Look at the forum. Many GCs on the forum don't like the idea of bizonality. Many, including you, think that TCs are a minority (politically) and they shouldn't get any more than 18% in everything. Now, let's say we go back to exactly 1960. How can we trust that GCs will accept our rights in 1960 constitution this time? What has changed? Maybe Enosis is dead but the mentality of "we're majority, we make the decisions" is still there.

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[boulio]

what about the t/c mentality as well,has takism changed?

[garbitsch]

boulio, 65 % of Turkish Cypriot population (when you omit the Turkish settlers this percentage is higher) are against Taksim and favour unification with Greek Cypriots. Do you believe that Taksim still on the issue among the Turkish Cypriot population?

By the way, Taksim means `division` in Turkish, not unification. And division had already been realised in Cyprus. So, people do not support its continuation.

[insan]

what about the t/c mentality as well,has takism changed?

Taksim idea has always gone hand in hand with Enosis and majority rule insistence of Hellenic ruling elite.