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Majority rule means war.(An article from 1964)

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Kifeas » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:51 pm

Will we restrict right to internal citizenship in each constituent state?


It is not essentially important for the GCCS do that. In the case of the TCCS it seems to be necessary, at least for a number of years (20-30) or unless and whenever the Senate decides otherwise. You have to take into consideration that the Turkish Cypriot community will continue to multiply and also once the economical level will rise higher than it is currently, more TCs who emigrated in the past, will begin returning back. That means that the TC population within the TCCS will keep increasing.
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:57 pm

Code:
In politics, the principle of checks and balances underlies many democratic governments. The term was coined by Montesquieu during the Enlightenment. The principle is an outgrowth of the classical idea of separation of powers. The first national system of checks and balances was outlined by the United States Constitution in 1789.

One method of implementing a check and balance system involves the interplay between different "branches" of government. Taken as a whole, such a government might be said to have an effective system of checks and balances if no one branch of government holds total power and each branch can be overridden by another.

The system of checks and balances has two components. The right to check and the means to actively balance out imbalances. Checking requires access to information and the right to question. Balancing requires a mechanism of control to prevent the branches from overstepping their constitutional limits of power. Difficulties arise in states where the branches can block each other to the extent of bringing the whole government to a standstill.





http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Ch ... d_balances

Compatriot Kifeas, do we need something like the above described system called "checks and balances"?

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Certainly! It goes beyond saying that any modern democracy requires such systems. The E.U. has such systems in place, besides the national goverments.
What specifically though you have in mind. i.e. For which particular sector or function?
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Postby insan » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:00 pm

Kifeas wrote:
Will we restrict right to internal citizenship in each constituent state?


It is not essentially important for the GCCS do that. In the case of the TCCS it seems to be necessary, at least for a number of years (20-30) or unless and whenever the Senate decides otherwise. You have to take into consideration that the Turkish Cypriot community will continue to multiply (unless it is castrated :) ) and also once the economical level will rise higher than it is currently, more TCs who emigrated in the past, will begin returning back. That means that the TC population within the TCCS will keep increasing.




Well presumably, there will be returning TCs from abroad but there will also be migrating TCs for education, business, a better life etc.
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Postby insan » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:04 pm

Kifeas wrote:
Code:
In politics, the principle of checks and balances underlies many democratic governments. The term was coined by Montesquieu during the Enlightenment. The principle is an outgrowth of the classical idea of separation of powers. The first national system of checks and balances was outlined by the United States Constitution in 1789.

One method of implementing a check and balance system involves the interplay between different "branches" of government. Taken as a whole, such a government might be said to have an effective system of checks and balances if no one branch of government holds total power and each branch can be overridden by another.

The system of checks and balances has two components. The right to check and the means to actively balance out imbalances. Checking requires access to information and the right to question. Balancing requires a mechanism of control to prevent the branches from overstepping their constitutional limits of power. Difficulties arise in states where the branches can block each other to the extent of bringing the whole government to a standstill.





http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Ch ... d_balances

Compatriot Kifeas, do we need something like the above described system called "checks and balances"?

Regards
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insan


Certainly! It goes beyond saying that any modern democracy requires such systems. The E.U. has such systems in place, besides the national goverments.
What specifically though you have in mind. i.e. For which particular sector or function?


I think the current "RoC" constitution vested the power to check and balance the decisions of GC parliament to the President. By the way, who will be the president of cyprus and how he/she will be elected? What will be his/her authorities at federal state level?

Compatriot Kifeas, I'm a bit tired at the moment. First I'd like to hear your opinions about these issues. :)
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Postby Kifeas » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:20 pm

I think the current "RoC" constitution vested the power to check and balance the decisions of GC parliament to the President. By the way, who will be the president of cyprus and how he/she will be elected? What will be his/her authorities at federal state level?

Compatriot Kifeas, I'm a bit tired at the moment. First I'd like to hear your opinions about these issues.
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That depends whether we agree that he must be elected directly by the people (similar system like in the US,) or by the senate. I would prefer him/her to be elected by the people, for better political stability.

In any case there should be a president and a deputy or vice president. One must originate from one CS and the other from the other CS. They should run as pairs like in the US. i.e. Similar in ideology, political parties from each CS should form alliances and decide for their candidates. The Pair (president and vice president) should gain at least simple majority in each constituent state ti be elected. If the President decided by one collision of parties is from one CS then the vice president should be from the other. It can be a Turkish Cypriot as president and Greek Cypriot as vice president or vice versa. it is up to the political party alliance to decide. In any case, the elected president should chair for 3 years and should step down for one year in favour of the vice president who will chair for this year. Remember, both should come from the same ideological grouping (i.e. the socialist parties of each constituent sate vs. the conservative parties from each constituent state, etc.) and should always go as a package to be voted by the people of each constituent state, in separate elections.

What do you think?
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Postby insan » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:39 pm

Kifeas wrote:
I think the current "RoC" constitution vested the power to check and balance the decisions of GC parliament to the President. By the way, who will be the president of cyprus and how he/she will be elected? What will be his/her authorities at federal state level?

Compatriot Kifeas, I'm a bit tired at the moment. First I'd like to hear your opinions about these issues.
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That depends whether we agree that he must be elected directly by the people (similar system like in the US,) or by the senate. I would prefer him/her to be elected by the people, for better political stability.

In any case there should be a president and a deputy or vice president. One must originate from one CS and the other from the other CS. They should run as pairs like in the US. i.e. Similar in ideology, political parties from each CS should form alliances and decide for their candidates. The Pair (president and vice president) should gain at least simple majority in each constituent state ti be elected. If the President decided by one collision of parties is from one CS then the vice president should be from the other. It can be a Turkish Cypriot as president and Greek Cypriot as vice president or vice versa. it is up to the political party alliance to decide. In any case, the elected president should chair for 3 years and should step down for one year in favour of the vice president who will chair for this year. Remember, both should come from the same ideological grouping (i.e. the socialist parties of each constituent sate vs. the conservative parties from each constituent state, etc.) and should always go as a package to be voted by the people of each constituent state, in separate elections.

What do you think?



Hmmm... Good idea my friend. However how can we provide both to have same ideology? By prohibition? And more importantly what powers will be vested to President and Vice-President? This issue is a bit complicated and tricky. I think you'll help me to find the right answer, my friend. Or I'm going to copy some portions of Denktash-Clerides letters and paste it here.

Nevertheless, I believe that in modern democrasies the checks and balances must not be vested to President and Vice President. I believe that a bi-communal council would be much better. The question is how should be the working mechanism of this bi-communal council of checks and balances. Any ideas?
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Postby Kifeas » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:08 am

Insan wrote:Hmmm... Good idea my friend. However how can we provide both to have same ideology? By prohibition? And more importantly what powers will be vested to President and Vice-President? This issue is a bit complicated and tricky. I think you'll help me to find the right answer, my friend. Or I'm going to copy some portions of Denktash-Clerides letters and paste it here.


In federations there are always federal political groups at the federal level, in which the various political parties from all constituent states identify themselves and adhere or join. Similar to the various political groups in the E.U. parliament. In other words there will be the group of the Leftist parties, the group of Socialist parties, the Liberal, the conservative, a group for all independents etc. It is like we will have new formations of Inter-Constituent state political parties. In the senate, all the senators will be seated in groups according, to these political formations and not according to the CS of origin.

In the case of the election of President and Vice president, each inter-constituent state political group or a collision of inter-state political groups (i.e. a collision of the Socialist and Leftist groups) will prepare their political agenda and program and assign their two candidates (President and vice president) to run for the presidency of the federal government. Do I make sense so far? The two candidates will go down to each CS, as a pair, and seek to win the elections in each one of the CS. The same will be done by another collision, let's say that of the far right political parties of each CS (if those two will ever manage to form an Inter-CS collision. :wink: )
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Postby Kifeas » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:33 am

Insan wrote:Nevertheless, I believe that in modern democrasies the checks and balances must not be vested to President and Vice President. I believe that a bi-communal council would be much better. The question is how should be the working mechanism of this bi-communal council of checks and balances. Any ideas?


With the Checks and balances term you obviously mean the Division of powers, i.e. judicial, legislating and executive powers.
The Legislating power is vested to the federal Senate; the executive power is vested to the president-vice president (PR-VP) duo and the commonly agreed and formed ministerial cabinet. The Judicial power is vested to the Supreme Court.

The duties of the PR-VP duo will be the same like in any other executive power. They will together form the government (ministerial cabinet) and each one will chair the government and the ministerial cabinet. The PR will chair for three years and the VP for one year. Remember, the PR can be from either CS and the VP again from either CS. None of them will have veto power. The decisions will be taken by the ministerial council, which will be selected jointly by the PR-VP duo and should consist of ministers from both CS in a more or less proportional composition.
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Postby insan » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:47 am

All seems good, compatriot Kifeas but still I found no answer for what type of checks and balances we need. What powers will the President and vice-President vested. Lately, in hope of finding some useful info I'm reading about the mechanisms of checks and balances of various countries. Here's some of them I found interesting...

Checks and Balances?
Nope, Runaway Capitalism!
American capitalism has developed into a monster where even the president can be bought by rich corporations and an administration can have such close and lucrative ties to business that had the same occurred anywhere else, the government would long ago have been dragged to court on charges of corruption. The president's family ties to oil/armament companies and the vice president's ties to oil/construction business are such that they are in no position to make any decisions involving those companies. They are disqualified! Yet they award them government contracts worth billions. The amazing thing is that the citizens of the country don't scream in outrage. In Iran the leaders would be behind bars for corruption. In Libya, Denmark, Switzerland, Namibia, China and Chile too. In the USA they sign laws and order invasions. Those checks and balances that are supposed to stop government corruption seem these days to be bank checks and company balance sheets and nothing else. In the country that plans to force capitalism on the world under the name "democracy", there's few members of the administration who are not at least halfway into the pockets of private business.



http://www.skog.de/enchecks.htm


Protect Your Rights: Support Our System of Checks and Balances



You know that Senate Democrats are the last line of defense against Republican efforts to pack our federal courts with reactionary judges who threaten to turn back the clock on decades of progress in communities across our nation.

Now, however, the system of checks and balances that gives Democrats the ability to provide balance to the Republican agenda is under attack. We must defend it.

By signing the statement below, you'll be telling George Bush that you are part of this all-important battle against his most extreme judicial nominations. You are also telling Senate Republicans that they can't make up new Senate rules because they don't like the way the current rules apply to their judicial nominations.

We know what's at stake and we're not willing to allow extreme judicial nominees to roll back all of our hard-won advances on basic constitutional rights.



http://action.dscc.org/campaign/balance



The main strength of the system of representative democracy is that it makes provision, through the Constitution, law and political institutions, for limitations on the powers which are exercised by governmental authorities as well as by private associations and groups. It provides institutional checks and balances.

The essence of the system is not democracy but representative democracy and a system of checks and balances on those exercising power. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." The incidence of the abuse of power cannot be eliminated but an attempt is made through the representative democratic system and its institutions to reduce the extent of the abuse of power. This is done through a number of devices and in various ways.

The existence of a system of fair elections which are not manipulated by the party in power, held periodically in an atmosphere of free speech, is the first factor. It is important that governments, when voted out, hand over power willingly and peacefully. Periodic elections ensure that members of government, knowing that they must face the people in the future, must be more responsive to the people's will, than in a system where they do not have to face elections.

An elected government should be restricted by the constitution and the law. It must function within the constitution and the law. An independent judiciary is vital in this context to ensure that government operates in accordance with the law and not in accordance with the arbitrary whims and fancies of those exercising power.

Government operates at many levels. Power is not centralised but distributed. An elected President or Prime Minister is at the apex, followed by ministers, members of parliament, civil servants, state governments and parliaments (in the case of federations), local government officials and so on. This operates as a restraint on the abuse of power. This is the theory of checks and balances, which was first given a strong theoretical base by Montesquieu and Hume.



http://www.ourcivilisation.com/cooray/btof/chap4iv.htm



Political constitutions are incomplete contracts and, therefore, leave room for abuse of power. In democracies, elections are the primary mechanism for disciplining public officials, but they are not sufficient. Separation of powers between executive and legislative bodies also helps to prevent the abuse of power, but only with appropriate checks and balances. Checks and balances work by creating a conflict of interest between the executive and the legislature, yet requiring both bodies to agree on public policy. In this way, the two bodies discipline each other to the voters' advantage. Under appropriate checks and balances, separation of power helps the voters elicit information. Copyright 1997, the President and Fellows of Harvard College and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.



http://ideas.repec.org/a/tpr/qjecon/v11 ... -1202.html
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Postby Kifeas » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:04 pm

All seems good, compatriot Kifeas but still I found no answer for what type of checks and balances we need. What powers will the President and vice-President vested. Lately, in hope of finding some useful info I'm reading about the mechanisms of checks and balances of various countries. Here's some of them I found interesting...


Compatriot Insan,
I believe that the model I described, which apparently is similar to the Annan plan, although more balanced in order to also address the needs and fears of the Greek Cypriots, without subjecting the viable concerns of Turkish Cypriots, offers an adequate mechanism for what you call checks and balances or in other words the division of powers in a state so that no abuse of power occurs. It is the well-known model of the tree powers (Judicial, executive and legislative,) and press being the forth power. I believe it will be more interesting and productive to discuss the basics and also address specific issues that might concern you in this context of checks and balances, instead of entering in an academic discussion of all the world-wide theories regarding this concept.
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