Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

VP said

Have you the time today to respond with logic to the current state of affairs, its taken your ex eoka leader over 4 years to invite Talat for a meet and I am certain that you are not stupid and undersand exactly why, Talats reaction is only to be expected and even delayed as I stated if it were me I would have told him where he can stick his invite from day 1. We are not to be pushed around by GCs and we have to show that even with isolation being enforced we will not sucumb to GC tricks of playing the public for a few more votes.

What has you leadership done sine the AP rejection to bring the 2 communities closer together, your answering this simple question honestly will reveal why Talat sees no prospect in moving forward with your current leaders as they are smug in the knowledge that we they are in the EU and the dynamics there will force the TC via osmosis to succumb to the "RoC" and be reduced to just another minority living in a GC state..well we will never go down that path and the EU will realize if they havent done so slready that the south does not have the vision of the EU to compromise and resolve...their aim is to impose what they feel is right for themselves and to hell with everyone else. The day will come when that level playing field will develop and be forced on the GC leadership due to their lack of flexiblity and then the GCs will be kicking themselves for not taking a proactive role resolving issues between the 2 communities, the chasm gets wider and the GC excuses increase to a point that again they will make the fatal mistake of over estimating their own importance in the grand scheme of things...which on the world stage is next to nothing.

Good morning VP, I will respond today but I am getting jacked off with your reaping posts and blaming posts and lack of responsibility taken for your leadership. At least I blast Papadopoulos and the RoC when I see it fit. Though it appears that in your eyes Talat can do no wrong, the trnc is perfect and the world is fucked.

I cannot respond why it has taken Papadopoulos 4 years to respond. However it would appear to me that he has made an appointment to meet with Talat because he is (A) under pressure from EU (B) because he was probably blasted by the UN & (C) because of the election early next year. On the otherhand if you guys want Unification put your racist and complex ego behind and get on with the job. If on the other hand you want partition (and I say you refering to the occupied areas of Cyprus), then proclaim it to the world so that the international arena knows how to go about it. Thrugh this action expect isolations to continue. I also make my point clear that I support isolations so long as my rght to return and the freedom to return and occupy any part of my country is violated by Turkish speaking Cypriots and Turkey.

About being pushed around by Greek Cypriots, that is your choice not to meet with Papadopoulos because you feel that way, though take the responsibility about it and STOP blaming (A) the RoC & (B) Greek speaking Cypriots. Perhaps your rich leader and his side kicks can begin thinking of the everyday person out tere who is struggling to make ends meet. Take responsibility to for your actions that are causing the consequences faced by your everyday compatriot.

What has my leadersship done since the AP to bring the two communities together. I refuse to answer this question unitl your answer mine. What has your leadership done since the failed AP?

Your comments about turkish speaking cypriots are living as a minority in GC sate, are personally offensive and frightenning. The fact remains that minority means that something is less in mumbers than another. the reality is that turkish speaking community in Cyprus has been a minority in Cyprus. This does not mean that it needs to be treated any differently than the majority. To this end there needs to be appropriate legislation to ensure that your rights and those of other minority groups are respected and protected and that equal rights are given to all Cypriots regardless of whrther they are minority of majority. Otherwise if you refuse to accept you are minority as I jokingly said in previous posts start shooting to get the GC numbers down equal to that of Turkish Cypriots (if you have even laughed atthis and considered it an option then please do not post to me again).

VP the majority of Greek speaking Cypriots have probably come to accept that there will be no movement on the current status quo for at least another 70 - 80 years they have accepted their loss on their properties and have gotten on with their lives and most people have doe very well for themselves. However they will not sit back and watch you take it all, they will not sit back and say have it, they will not forget the injustice. I will not sit back and say have it here take it. Forget it mate. Perhaps your last sentence is right perhaps it is not. I don't have a response for that. If that is your belief then time will only tell.

My suggestion is the opportunity is here if Taat and the majority of Turkish speaking Cypriots want unification then meet with Papadopoulos if not then that is your choice, your decision and take full responsibility and do not blame the RoC of the Greek speaking Cypriots for your lack of action.

Lastly could I ask you please to refraim from refering to Papadopoulos as "your ex EOKA leader" at least in my osts please I wish to have an adult discussion with people and do not wish to resort to name calling. Thank for your respect on this matter again. Andreas

[DT.]

fine post andreas....no doubt you will receive a bigger spin back.

[iceman]

Your comments about turkish speaking cypriots are living as a minority in GC sate, are personally offensive and frightenning. The fact remains that minority means that something is less in mumbers than another. the reality is that turkish speaking community in Cyprus has been a minority in Cyprus. This does not mean that it needs to be treated any differently than the majority. To this end there needs to be appropriate legislation to ensure that your rights and those of other minority groups are respected and protected and that equal rights are given to all Cypriots regardless of whrther they are minority of majority.

Andreas
It is clearly stated in the constitution of ROC that Turkish speaking Cypriots and the Greek speaking Cypriots are the TWO main communities forming the population of the Republic..This was the reason 30% & 70% proportions were included at administration level...
I understand you believe it was unfair granting TC's the rights they did back in 1960 Constitution but that doesnt give you the legal right to downgrade their status to minority.

It would help if you take this fact into considertion when proposing a solution because as a Turkish speaking Cypriot,i get offended when you try to treat me (and my people) as you would treat an Armenian/Latin or Maronite in a ROC run by Greek speaking Cypriots..

[Kifeas]

Your comments about turkish speaking cypriots are living as a minority in GC sate, are personally offensive and frightenning. The fact remains that minority means that something is less in mumbers than another. the reality is that turkish speaking community in Cyprus has been a minority in Cyprus. This does not mean that it needs to be treated any differently than the majority. To this end there needs to be appropriate legislation to ensure that your rights and those of other minority groups are respected and protected and that equal rights are given to all Cypriots regardless of whrther they are minority of majority.

Andreas
It is clearly stated in the constitution of ROC that Turkish speaking Cypriots and the Greek speaking Cypriots are the TWO main communities forming the population of the Republic..This was the reason 30% & 70% proportions were included at administration level...
I understand you believe it was unfair granting TC's the rights they did back in 1960 Constitution but that doesnt give you the legal right to downgrade their status to minority.

It would help if you take this fact into considertion when proposing a solution because as a Turkish speaking Cypriot,i get offended when you try to treat me (and my people) as you would treat an Armenian/Latin or Maronite in a ROC run by Greek speaking Cypriots..

How "unfairly" or "discriminately" is an Armenian/Latin or Maronite treated in the ROC; and why is it a ROC run by "Greek speaking Cypriots" only, if all those communities that you mentioned have amble representation in all the levels, organs and instruments of the RoC?

[humanist]

Andreas
It is clearly stated in the constitution of ROC that Turkish speaking Cypriots and the Greek speaking Cypriots are the TWO main communities forming the population of the Republic..This was the reason 30% & 70% proportions were included at administration level...
I understand you believe it was unfair granting TC's the rights they did back in 1960 Constitution but that doesnt give you the legal right to downgrade their status to minority.

It would help if you take this fact into considertion when proposing a solution because as a Turkish speaking Cypriot,i get offended when you try to treat me (and my people) as you would treat an Armenian/Latin or Maronite in a ROC run by Greek speaking Cypriots..

Iceman, firstly I do not believe that it was unfair in the 1960's constitution at all and I see all Cypriots as equal regardless of whrther they are maronite/ turkish/ armenian or greek or whatever. my understanding of the definition minority s just that a number les than another ...... like i said in my post which has been taken out of context I believe that all Cypriots regardless of their minority outh to have equal rights in all domains of life. you are not equal in munmber that is all I am saying. I am not saying you need to hold less paid jobe, that you recieve less education, health care, economic power, less political representation, less social and cultural benefits. I am saying alll this needs to be equal.

Further to your coment about GC society etc, you guys continue toseparate yourselves from the Cypriot identity. I am arguing that we live in a unted Cyprus where all Cypriots share one identity and that of a Cypriot and share all asepects of social, political economic power. In 2007 there appears to exist in Cyprus greek and turkish north and south. I am suggesting that in a unified country we weill all be Cypriot end of story. I am also suggesting that yes it is time for the Cypriot government to take a couple of moves towards a Cypriot identity. Get rid of the national anthem and replace it with an anthem that is inclussive of all cypriots and no greek flag to be flown on public buildings and that is only the begginiing. However remember you play a big part in this as you have an intransigent attitude to being turks.

furthermore, think about your last sentence as you are suggesting that peraps you are better than armenian, maronite or other Cypriot and deserve different treatment. Pleas eexplain to me how you would like to be treated in a united Cyprus not as a turkish speaking Cypriot living in the north. Because the minute you choose to call the trnc your country then you are not in my view a Cypriot you are a member of what the international community call separatist illegal state.

[humanist]

kifeas said

How "unfairly" or "discriminately" is an Armenian/Latin or Maronite treated in the ROC; and why is it a ROC run by "Greek speaking Cypriots" only, if all those communities that you mentioned have amble representation in all the levels, organs and instruments of the RoC?

Hi kifeas, firstly I want to say that I do not seriously believe that the armenian, maronite, latin brothers & sisters are treated with any disrespect although I would like to hear from them about this. Secondly I do believe that TC's are right in some of their coments about a greek cypriot state. I do sincerely believe that in order to be fair just equal and accepting the RoC does need to drop the notion of Greekness and Helenism.

I am sorry but the anthem is an insult to anyone who is not of greek so called heritage. Surely after so many thousands of years and with so many invasions Cyprus is not like Greece, greek speaking Cypriots are nothing like Greeks form Greeks. Cyprus econmoy is much much better than Greece's, so why this needs to identify as hellenic. Why are we holding onto the past so much. It is not a big deal to drop all that hellenic stuf in order to UNITE into a Cypriot state for all Cypriots.

An anthem that is not making reference to Greekness is not a big ask, not flying the Greek flag on public building is not a big ask. We only need to make these little changes for something greater to evolve.

Having been away from Cyprus for 25 years the last time I came being 2000 Cypus was nothing like when I left in 1981. Evolution is natural, we have more than one community and we need to change Cyprus to a Cypriot State that is home to all.

Having said this the same goes for Turkish speaking Cypriots, who are more staunch about being turks than greek speakers are about being greek[/quote]

[Viewpoint]

DT.

I appreciate your criticism mentioned above but can't help noticing the entire blameless attitude against people that freely spread hate-mongering between the 2 communities...that FREAKED out when a proposed meeting between tc's and gc's was to be had...a person who insists that WHOEVER is leader on our side (these are his words now) he wants to live in a country where his children will not hear any greek spoken.

Are you referring to me? would you like to live in a country where Turkish is spoken in daily life at the butchers, in local government buildings, just like you were living in Turkey but in fact you are in a country you call your own.

vp, thats fine if not for one small point. Cyprus isn't turkish.

Exactly, nor is it Greek so why should I be forced to live in a society where a visit to the water board woudl be a nightmare as the people would all be GCs and speak Greek....If ı wanted to hear Engish around me all the time I would have stayed in the UK. Do you get my point at all?

its a cypriot nation VP whatever the solution you will always live with tcs and gcs in cyprus. Due to the numbers unfortunately for you, you will bump into greek a lot more.

I acknowledge this but like 65% of my community support a 2 state BBF solution whereby I can have the option to live in a TC administered state where Turkish is the predominant language and TCs are in charge and run their own state.

[humanist]

VP said

I acknowledge this but like 65% of my community support a 2 state BBF solution whereby I can have the option to live in a TC administered state where Turkish is the predominant language and TCs are in charge and run their own state.

Hi there VP, that is fine about having the option to live in a predomonantly TC occupied state, what about the option for the rest of the Cypriot community, including armenians/ latins/ maronites?


Can you say that this racist and inconsidered not only to greek cypriots but also other minority groups smaller than TC's? can you even tantalise the idea, you don't have to admit it to me but to yourself?

[BirKibrisli]

Pyro gardash...The reason why you have not received an answer to ur original question is that there is no simple answer....There are some TCs who believe the status quo is the solution....Hence they have not changed their minds at all....Others have voted with their feet and left Cyprus immediately after the 74 fiasco...I believe the number of TCs who left Cyprus within 10 years of 74 is only second to the numbers who left between 1964-74....I was not there in 74 as you might remember....but I heard a lot from my family during my first visit in 1979...No doubt a lot of people did a lot of spontaneous looting (on both sides obviously) but in the North the real looting happened systematically and under the watchful eye of the Turkish Army and politicians in Ankara....There are still about 1500 refugee families in the North who receieved nothing in all this time,despite having left land or houses in the South...People got given land or housing in the North not by merit,but by political influence....I know this personally because I come from a very large family,and those members who were politically influential got land or housing in exchange,sooner and better than those who were less influential...The real looting started with the arrival of the settlers.They got given land and property to entice them,without of course any right as they left nothing in the South.The worse was to follow, when they were given title deeds and allowed to rent or trade their gifted properties. I would suggest that most of those who voted for the Annan Plan were of settler origin.They were promised that noone would be sent back against their wishes,and they would be free to roam the EU countries after the solution....So it is very difficult to say who amongst the TCs became aware of the need for a solution and when... a small number were obviously aware from the start. They did suspect that there were a price to pay for being"rescued"...
Others became slowly aware over time that their "saviours" had turned their"prisoners"....That they no longer had any say over their own lives in their own country...One thing is for sure...the number of TCs who were motivated by entry to the EU were much less than the number of settlers during the referandum....The presence of the settlers,and the fact that they are allowed to vote in the North is the single most complicating factor in Cyprob...That is why no solution would be found unless the settler problem is settled first....I hope this answered some of ur initial query...

[Viewpoint]

VP said

I acknowledge this but like 65% of my community support a 2 state BBF solution whereby I can have the option to live in a TC administered state where Turkish is the predominant language and TCs are in charge and run their own state.

Hi there VP, that is fine about having the option to live in a predomonantly TC occupied state, what about the option for the rest of the Cypriot community, including armenians/ latins/ maronites?


Can you say that this racist and inconsidered not only to greek cypriots but also other minority groups smaller than TC's? can you even tantalise the idea, you don't have to admit it to me but to yourself?

These groups are true minorities just like the Indians in the UK, can you understand the difference? we are partners and joint owners like the Scots Welsh and English..ther eis a big difference.

I have not responded to your previous post as it appears to be full of anger dismissive and lacks understanding, you have even responded with a question in response to my question which is very counter productive and is an easy cop out.