Cyprus-Forum.com

[Agios Amvrosios]

Are the indigenous ethnic minorities of Asia Minor enjoying " the right to self determination" as expressed in the form of separatist autonomous states,provinces or cantons within a federation?


I have read a lot of spurious babble on this forum about "the right of self determination" giving rise to the right for one ethnic group to form an ethnically cleansed racially pure, self proclaimed psuedo state.

Is the purported right to "self determination" a subtefuge for an opportunistic land grab?

At what stage does the purported "right to self determination" override all other legal rights and human rights?

What percentage of population gives rise to the right of" self determination"?

Who Farted?

[erolz]

I have read a lot of spurious babble on this forum about "the right of self determination" giving rise to the right for one ethnic group to form an ethnically cleansed racially pure, self proclaimed psuedo state.

Well you may have read it but you clearly have not understood it. No where is an argument being made that the right to self determination bestows a right to create an ethnicaly cleansed raciall pure self proclaimed pusedo state. What is being argued is that in Cyprus the two communites have rights as communites that hese rights are equal between each community and that they are greater than the rights of a minority but less than the rights of a people (as laid out in human rights charters) and that this 'right of communites' is derived from the rights of peoples but applicable when you have a senario of one people two communites.

At what stage does the purported "right to self determination" override all other legal rights and human rights?

It never does. However the denial of the rights of one community by another can (and did) lead to such illegal actions - just as the denial of (G) Cypriot demands for self determination from the British from the 1930 onwards led to illegal action by EOKA against the British.

What percentage of population gives rise to the right of" self determination"?

There is no simple pre define magic %. Every case has to be judged on it's merits.

Who Farted?

Why do I even bother trying to have an 'adult' conversation with you? I guess I am just a glutton for punishment?

[brother]

Sorry that was me that let one off.....phew...egg benedıck

[Agios Amvrosios]

"Every case has to be judged on it's merits"

Who judges?

And does that necessarily satisfy all the required steps to enshrine it in International law?

[BigDutch]

........ to enshrine it in International law?

Whilst i`m sitting firmly on the RoC side of the fence in the "RoC vs Turkey" case .... if you think international law actually means something then you are naive.

Its been said before and will be said many times, land disputes - and specifically who gets what, where, and when - is all to do with the interests of the relevant parties, and a load of non-direct interests from "powers" around the world. The invasion of Afganistan and Iraq were both "illegal" in terms of "international" law .... did that stop the USA and its "allies" in the "war on terror" ? Do we expect the USA and allies to withdraw and really leave them alone ?

[brother]

Now we are talking the same language and thats called reality.

[BigDutch]

yes - "laws" are broken - it is reality - things happen - they stay - they go - they change depending on interests.

Turkey stayed beyond its "lawful" obligation in Cyprus.

Turkey continues to occupy areas of Cyprus.

Turkish occupation will end as we know it today as soon as Turkey's interests are focused on other areas.

Whether the RoC will be able to keep the promises to its citizens is another question.

[Agios Amvrosios]

I just checked Afghanistan and Iraq are not in the EU and are not members of the Council of Europe. The treaties which allowed Loizidou to sue Turkey in the ECHR are not available in those countries. Have they been given an accession date?Give them my congratulations.


Are you saying then that a solution will not be possible unless there is some Major catastrophic weakening of Turkey? I would much prefer gentlemens' rules. Not ruthless and opportunistic actions which result in dissatisfaction and stalemates such as the one we face. A lasting solution must be accepted as fair by all involved.

I do not see a solution to the Cyprus problem for another 30 -50 years.

[brother]

Cyprus has always been a pawn in the bigger game and continues to be so...what is being said is that when the interests of turkey fade in cyprus then there will be solution....how long that is, who knows

[BigDutch]

I just checked Afghanistan and Iraq are not in the EU and are not members of the Council of Europe.

I see, i was unaware that "international" law only existed in Europe.