Cyprus-Forum.com

[bigOz]

VP, do convicts in jail have any rights against correctional officers? Your kind of in the same postion. Your rights don't count pretty much at all, because of what your doing till the present day. Discrimination is your middle name.

YES the convicts in jail do have MANY rights, as also outlined by the Human rights charter! Not only that, in many EU countries they have the right to vote during an election as well. Your idea of any human being having no rights or their "rights not counting pretty much" is a nose up, patronising attitude.

Furthermore TCs are not convicts or in prison (they were partially so before 1974) and there can be no analogy as such! DISCRIMINATION against TCs is being carried out by the EU at this time, and that is likely to change in the near future.

In any case I do not think accusations and counter accusations as to who is guilty and who is the victim will help solve anything at this stage - it does what it will always do and create more tension. It is clear from all the posts in this forum that the TCs will see the issue from their point of view, and the GCs will do so from theirs! Discussing such disagreements on views will go on till eternity and solve nothing!

[humanist]

VP we will never understand each other because I see Turkish speaking Cypriots as Cypriots. The only illegal army on the Island is that of Turkey when you tell them to go, (I doubt that you have that power and I will accept any argument put forth by you that you can tell Turkey to go and it will go) then we will get rid of the National Guard.

About level playing field that can hardly happen when you hold half the country hostage, and selling it to everyone but the legal owners of the land. Can hardly trust or believe what you or your leadership may say, on this issue.

[humanist]

bigOz I tottally agree with you. There is no point in accusations and counter accusations.

We have a situation that I belive can be solved quite easily if both communities leadership wanted too.

We have one country and we have lots of people who are misplaced. To this end the leadership need to work out ways to ensure personal safety, counteract racism individuallly and socially through legilsation at the same time ensuring equality among all Cypriot citizens in alll domains of life. Simple and easy recipe for success. Register those who do not wish to return, compansate them for their properties and exchange with those who wish to remain in the north/ south respectivelly.

LEARN from 1963

[Viewpoint]

No one is punishng you for being a TC other than yourself. IF you are a TC with a skip and a jump on the other side of the divide you and your proclaimed motherland Turkey have created and a new attitude you can end your self imposed isolation VP. Try it you may be surprised.

Thats more than a greek speaking refugee can do, in their own country.

Are you suggesting I leave my life in the north and move to south a GC state where I feel and am treated like a foreigner, you really need to understand that if it were that easy you would have all the TCs living in the south which they are clearly not, that must in itself tell you a great deal.

[Viewpoint]

VP we will never understand each other because I see Turkish speaking Cypriots as Cypriots. The only illegal army on the Island is that of Turkey when you tell them to go, (I doubt that you have that power and I will accept any argument put forth by you that you can tell Turkey to go and it will go) then we will get rid of the National Guard.

About level playing field that can hardly happen when you hold half the country hostage, and selling it to everyone but the legal owners of the land. Can hardly trust or believe what you or your leadership may say, on this issue.

So in short what you are saying is you cannot trust us to carry an agreement then why the hell do you even bother ot negotiate anything? You see TCs as just Cypriots because it suits you and some gulable TCs will fall for that old trick, but they shoudl also realize thatr you hide in comfort behind the weight of 80% which can ensure we do not get a look into runningour own country. Safeguard are vital to any prgress being made and if the level playing field is not created then the chasm will get wider and wider...the choice is yours.

[Kikapu]

Pyro is correct, you guys are going OFF TOPIC
Is it because you cannot answer the questions or is it you just don't want to.??

I should have also emphasized, that any Partition will be strictly against the wishes of the RoC.

Lets see if we can get better answers now.


These are my questions.

1. What does Partition actually mean to you.?

a) the "TRNC" is a recognised Country?
b) the "TRNC" gets to have Direct Trade and Flights?
c) the "TRNC" will make an application to the EU to become a member?
d) the "TRNC" will no longer have to deal with the GC property claims?
e) the "TRNC" will no longer need Turkey's financial and military
support?
f) the "TRNC" will be welcomed by the RoC as good neighbours?
g) the "TRNC" will become a prosperous and productive Country.?

2. How does the Partition help the "TRNC".?

a) Other than Tourism, what other Trade the "TRNC" can offer
to the outside world that is not already available to those
countries.?
b) Will the "TRNC" be able to export anymore goods than they
already export to Turkey now.?
c) How does the "TRNC" ever expect to enter the EU along with
Turkey.?
d) After Partition, what is to stop Turkey annexing the "TRNC" if neither
will be accepted into the EU.?
e) What goods can be imported into the "TRNC", that they are not
available right now via Turkey.?
f) How can the "TRNC" have a Government and run a country with
such small population without "Heavy Corruption" because it will be
the case of, most people will know someone that knows someone in
the Government and will ask for favours.?
g) Will the "TRNC" TC's tear up their RoC passports, once they got their
Partition or will the RoC do it for them, as no longer being Citizens
of the RoC.?

3. Can most of the items above NOT be achieved through a "TRUE
BBF". Is Partition really necessary, even if it means, there will
be some Greek spoken around some TC's.?

You then need to change your questions because half of them do not make sense in that case.

Questions are fine Zan. Answer them one more time with a different approach, and see if the answers match the first ones. My guess is, they will be far apart.

The "chasm" will be there.

I'll comment on your answers later.

[DT.]

DT I dont really think you are being objective as we are trying to debate how to bring about a situation whereby both sides are equals and have equal rights you are talking about the current situation and how wish to punish the TCs for having more of Cyprus than you but not taking into account the advantages you have eg recognition.

Do you see me as an equal and do you feel on the way to a comprehensive solution you have to allow me the same rights that you see fit for your own community?

View point, maalesef, anlayana sivri sinek saz, anlamayana davul zurna az.
Some are just like spoilt brats.
Regards
DA

sorry DA i don't understand why some of us are like spoilt brats. I am responding to the question of why would GC's object to international football games being carried out in the north.

The point i'm trying to make is that in this situation with nothing agreed and no solution put forward then we have a tit for tat situation happenning.

Why should the GC's back down on this? WHat have we agreed the tc's will gesture in return?

[DT.]

DT I dont really think you are being objective as we are trying to debate how to bring about a situation whereby both sides are equals and have equal rights you are talking about the current situation and how wish to punish the TCs for having more of Cyprus than you but not taking into account the advantages you have eg recognition.

Do you see me as an equal and do you feel on the way to a comprehensive solution you have to allow me the same rights that you see fit for your own community?

VP i can assure you that I consider you and me as complete equals on this island.

[bigOz]

VP we will never understand each other because I see Turkish speaking Cypriots as Cypriots. The only illegal army on the Island is that of Turkey when you tell them to go, (I doubt that you have that power and I will accept any argument put forth by you that you can tell Turkey to go and it will go) then we will get rid of the National Guard.

About level playing field that can hardly happen when you hold half the country hostage, and selling it to everyone but the legal owners of the land. Can hardly trust or believe what you or your leadership may say, on this issue.

So in short what you are saying is you cannot trust us to carry an agreement then why the hell do you even bother ot negotiate anything? You see TCs as just Cypriots because it suits you and some gulable TCs will fall for that old trick, but they shoudl also realize that you hide in comfort behind the weight of 80% which can ensure we do not get a look into running our own country. Safeguard are vital to any progress being made and if the level playing field is not created then the chasm will get wider and wider...the choice is yours.

I think you two both mean well and are arguing the same thing but with a different tune - hence the misinterpretations and more of "I am right you are wrong attitude".

VP I can understand your frustration and feelings very well because on many occasions you've been led into arguments by intentional mis-quotation and/or provocation. But on this occasion I feel you are rushing to conclusions. If you read what Humanist says in the last post, you will understand where I am coming from:

We have a situation that I belive can be solved quite easily if both communities leadership wanted too.

We have one country and we have lots of people who are misplaced. To this end the leadership need to work out ways to ensure personal safety, counteract racism individuallly and socially through legilsation at the same time ensuring equality among all Cypriot citizens in alll domains of life. Simple and easy recipe for success. Register those who do not wish to return, compansate them for their properties and exchange with those who wish to remain in the north/ south respectivelly.

LEARN from 1963

Perhaps because it was direct reply to my earlier post, you missed it. Isn't that something you would be happy with too?

[Pyrpolizer]

I am wondering how long after 1974 the TCs started even thinking there was in fact a problem in Cyprus.

How long did it take them to even think they and their mama have ousted 200,000 GCs and stole their lands, homes, and properties, and that on the other side GC refugee people were living in tents like gypsies.

5 years, 9 years (when they declared their own "trnc') 15 years, 20 years 30 years?