Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

btw some of my answers were after putting a TC hat on my head. E.g when I said "Oh what a joy.." that was from the Turkish saying "Oh what a joy to be a Turk"
But Kikapu I would say your questions ARE VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING. I just hope some TCs will try anwer them directly. Will not hold by breath though....

Pyro,

I got that already, so no need to explain on the "Oh what a joy".

I just put few questions together to see where really do the TC's think that the Partition will take us to. The Partitionist always talk about it, so I wanted to know, what the "Promised Land" looked like rather than a peaceful settlement with the GC's. It is not design to mock anyone, but just wanted to know what is it that they are seeing with a Partition, that I'm having a hard time seeing it myself. As you said, I hope few will come forward and answer them directly. They don't even need to be Partitionist to answer the questions, in case they are afraid to be labelled one, but it would help if they were TC's.

Your topic became a mess Kikapu. As you can see it got the issue of military mines inside, property issues, reservists, and the old "level playing field".

So far only Zan answered directly, I hope you will be able to figure his answers out, as I personally gave up a long time ago.

In case you do then please also explain me how he answered yes to the question
f) the "TRNC" will be welcomed by the RoC as good neighbours? .....

[denizaksulu]

Humanist, your eye sight is getting weaker. You better see an opthalmologist. I sincerely hope you are not diabetic. Its the red corner not pink. And I love you too, dahling. Mmuwah!
Regards
DA

[Viewpoint]

Like I said VP keep the land we'll keep the isolation sounds reasonable to me. Actually just in case you have not noticed the International Community are the ones who are keeping the economic embargo. Even your staunchest supporter Pakistan and Britain have kept the economic embargo for 33 years and have clearly stated that they are unable to do anything about direct flights either.

Now I do stand by my statement that I feel as long as you keep the land I support the econmoic embargo and I feel that justifies the illegal occupation of my grandmothers property. As I stated in other posts it is not about the property is about the freedom to choose what we do with that property.

I do feel sad though that we have this deal going for 33 years and none is benefited. At least I am able to admit to that. And willing to look at other options one being BBF with Federal Government, in the last week or so there have been some pretty good proposals on this forum.

For me though it is the ideological unification that is no where near the physical unification that may happen. That is the key to bringing this land and this peoples together. If we unify so we get the land back and for you to escape the economic embargo then as far as am concerned we have not achieved anything because of the inherent racism, core beliefs and ideology of the Cypriot people.

Will your support for isolation of the north get you to the point you want? No, cant you see its having the opposite effect and views are hardening as GCs enforce the isolation to stop even friendly football matches. You have to realize that in order to get your land back which is the GCs number 1 priority you have to encourage and take measures that will take Tcs out of Turkeys economical grip and allow them to stand on their own 2 feet. Isn't it obvious from the last 33 years that your current mentality does not and will not pay dividends, the chasm will get wider and it will never be crossed.

You move your mouth as to feeling sad for the past but you perpetuate it by not saying that there should be a level playing field and whatever I see fit for myself I see fit for the TCs. This is the only way forward to encourage cooperation and trust which in the future can lead to your utopia of one people one country no discrimination.

sorry, no thanks.

You;'re asking for the one weapon we have in our arsenal to counter your posession of our homes to be given up without you moving a finger in the right direction?

sorry, no thanks...no football, no trade, no direct flights.. till you convince us that you will not use this to cement the partition you so desire.

Did I state it would be a one way street? if you see fit for TCs to get their homes or compensation right away then we will do the same. If you demand we live in the "RoC" for 6 months then we will do the same, do you now get the general drift or do you still maintain that your past approach has been fruitful?

sorry didn't get that...Who demands who live in the roc and for what?

The "RoC" demands TCs move and live in the south for 6 months before they are eligable to apply to the GC courts for restitution of their property, if you feel that fair then will you accept the same principle for GCs moving to the TRNC for 6 months and applying to the TC courts?

[DT.]

Like I said VP keep the land we'll keep the isolation sounds reasonable to me. Actually just in case you have not noticed the International Community are the ones who are keeping the economic embargo. Even your staunchest supporter Pakistan and Britain have kept the economic embargo for 33 years and have clearly stated that they are unable to do anything about direct flights either.

Now I do stand by my statement that I feel as long as you keep the land I support the econmoic embargo and I feel that justifies the illegal occupation of my grandmothers property. As I stated in other posts it is not about the property is about the freedom to choose what we do with that property.

I do feel sad though that we have this deal going for 33 years and none is benefited. At least I am able to admit to that. And willing to look at other options one being BBF with Federal Government, in the last week or so there have been some pretty good proposals on this forum.

For me though it is the ideological unification that is no where near the physical unification that may happen. That is the key to bringing this land and this peoples together. If we unify so we get the land back and for you to escape the economic embargo then as far as am concerned we have not achieved anything because of the inherent racism, core beliefs and ideology of the Cypriot people.

Will your support for isolation of the north get you to the point you want? No, cant you see its having the opposite effect and views are hardening as GCs enforce the isolation to stop even friendly football matches. You have to realize that in order to get your land back which is the GCs number 1 priority you have to encourage and take measures that will take Tcs out of Turkeys economical grip and allow them to stand on their own 2 feet. Isn't it obvious from the last 33 years that your current mentality does not and will not pay dividends, the chasm will get wider and it will never be crossed.

You move your mouth as to feeling sad for the past but you perpetuate it by not saying that there should be a level playing field and whatever I see fit for myself I see fit for the TCs. This is the only way forward to encourage cooperation and trust which in the future can lead to your utopia of one people one country no discrimination.

sorry, no thanks.

You;'re asking for the one weapon we have in our arsenal to counter your posession of our homes to be given up without you moving a finger in the right direction?

sorry, no thanks...no football, no trade, no direct flights.. till you convince us that you will not use this to cement the partition you so desire.

Did I state it would be a one way street? if you see fit for TCs to get their homes or compensation right away then we will do the same. If you demand we live in the "RoC" for 6 months then we will do the same, do you now get the general drift or do you still maintain that your past approach has been fruitful?

sorry didn't get that...Who demands who live in the roc and for what?

The "RoC" demands TCs move and live in the south for 6 months before they are eligable to apply to the GC courts for restitution of their property, if you feel that fair then will you accept the same principle for GCs moving to the TRNC for 6 months and applying to the TC courts?

Off course not....i don't recognise the TC courts VP.

[Kikapu]

Pyro is correct, you guys are going OFF TOPIC
Is it because you cannot answer the questions or is it you just don't want to.??

I should have also emphasized, that any Partition will be strictly against the wishes of the RoC.

Lets see if we can get better answers now.


These are my questions.

1. What does Partition actually mean to you.?

a) the "TRNC" is a recognised Country?
b) the "TRNC" gets to have Direct Trade and Flights?
c) the "TRNC" will make an application to the EU to become a member?
d) the "TRNC" will no longer have to deal with the GC property claims?
e) the "TRNC" will no longer need Turkey's financial and military
support?
f) the "TRNC" will be welcomed by the RoC as good neighbours?
g) the "TRNC" will become a prosperous and productive Country.?

2. How does the Partition help the "TRNC".?

a) Other than Tourism, what other Trade the "TRNC" can offer
to the outside world that is not already available to those
countries.?
b) Will the "TRNC" be able to export anymore goods than they
already export to Turkey now.?
c) How does the "TRNC" ever expect to enter the EU along with
Turkey.?
d) After Partition, what is to stop Turkey annexing the "TRNC" if neither
will be accepted into the EU.?
e) What goods can be imported into the "TRNC", that they are not
available right now via Turkey.?
f) How can the "TRNC" have a Government and run a country with
such small population without "Heavy Corruption" because it will be
the case of, most people will know someone that knows someone in
the Government and will ask for favours.?
g) Will the "TRNC" TC's tear up their RoC passports, once they got their
Partition or will the RoC do it for them, as no longer being Citizens
of the RoC.?

3. Can most of the items above NOT be achieved through a "TRUE
BBF". Is Partition really necessary, even if it means, there will
be some Greek spoken around some TC's.?

[humanist]

VP said

The "RoC" demands TCs move and live in the south for 6 months before they are eligable to apply to the GC courts for restitution of their property, if you feel that fair then will you accept the same principle for GCs moving to the TRNC for 6 months and applying to the TC courts?

VP there is slight difference the TC's wanting to reclaim property in the south are most likely occupying refugee property and the government is probably taking the stance of fairness and ensuring people are not further exploiting refugee property.

Otherwise yes I do agree that the same rule applys, however your racists regime in the north has already stated they do not wish greek seaking cypriots therefore we know what the outcome will be. A Big fat no you cannot claim your property or you can only have ha;f and we will compensate the rest at a rate we set, because if we gave you market value we will not afford to pay back all greek speaking cypriots and the property they own in the north.

Perhaps you should have asked Turkey to have invaded the south bak in 1974 you owned more land there. But ooooppps it's not close to motherland Turkey

[zan]

Did you miss this Kiks?

I tried the "Solution Plan" with you all, so now let me ask you a question on the Partition. Many TC's on this Forum are waiting for a Partition every passing day just like the Christians are waiting for the Second coming of the Christ. Lets assume, both of the above have happened today, now what.??

These are my questions.

1. What does Partition actually mean to you.?

a) the "TRNC" is a recognised Country? Yes
b) the "TRNC" gets to have Direct Trade and Flights? Yes
c) the "TRNC" will make an application to the EU to become a member? Yes
d) the "TRNC" will no longer have to deal with the GC property claims?No
e) the "TRNC" will no longer need Turkey's financial and military
support? Short term Yes
f) the "TRNC" will be welcomed by the RoC as good neighbours? Yes
g) the "TRNC" will become a prosperous and productive Country.? Yes
2. How does the Partition help the "TRNC".?

a) Other than Tourism, what other Trade the "TRNC" can offer
to the outside world that is not already available to those
countries.? The same as any other small island. Look up Menorca if you like and tell me what the difference is. Wait a minute how about the "RoC".
b) Will the "TRNC" be able to export anymore goods than they
already export to Turkey now.? Not much goes to Turkey because Turkey can do it cheaper because they are free to trade. We are not.
c) How does the "TRNC" ever expect to enter the EU along with
Turkey.? ?????? Don't understand the question.
d) After Partition, what is to stop Turkey annexing the "TRNC" if neither
will be accepted into the EU.? Why would they want to annexe an allie
e) What goods can be imported into the "TRNC", that they are not
available right now via Turkey.? As people get richer and a stable economy is reached then everything.
f) How can the "TRNC" have a Government and run a country with
such small population without "Heavy Corruption" because it will be
the case of, most people will know someone that knows someone in
the Government and will ask for favours.? What like in the "RoC" you mean. I think you are showing a lack of trust for the people and not for the numbers of people here Kikapu. Totaly unfair and wrong.
g) Will the "TRNC" TC's tear up their RoC passports, once they got their
Partition or will the RoC do it for them, as no longer being Citizens
of the RoC.? That I am afraid is up to the individual and the "RoC". It has no obligation to an independant republic.

3. Can most of the items above NOT be achieved through a "TRUE
BBF". Is Partition really necessary, even if it means, there will
be some Greek spoken around some TC's.? As long as it is not main land Greek then we do not mind. I find the mother tongue hard to swallow.

4. Any answers.? See above.

[Kikapu]

Did you miss this Kiks?

I tried the "Solution Plan" with you all, so now let me ask you a question on the Partition. Many TC's on this Forum are waiting for a Partition every passing day just like the Christians are waiting for the Second coming of the Christ. Lets assume, both of the above have happened today, now what.??

These are my questions.

1. What does Partition actually mean to you.?

a) the "TRNC" is a recognised Country? Yes
b) the "TRNC" gets to have Direct Trade and Flights? Yes
c) the "TRNC" will make an application to the EU to become a member? Yes
d) the "TRNC" will no longer have to deal with the GC property claims?No
e) the "TRNC" will no longer need Turkey's financial and military
support? Short term Yes
f) the "TRNC" will be welcomed by the RoC as good neighbours? Yes
g) the "TRNC" will become a prosperous and productive Country.? Yes
2. How does the Partition help the "TRNC".?

a) Other than Tourism, what other Trade the "TRNC" can offer
to the outside world that is not already available to those
countries.? The same as any other small island. Look up Menorca if you like and tell me what the difference is. Wait a minute how about the "RoC".
b) Will the "TRNC" be able to export anymore goods than they
already export to Turkey now.? Not much goes to Turkey because Turkey can do it cheaper because they are free to trade. We are not.
c) How does the "TRNC" ever expect to enter the EU along with
Turkey.? ?????? Don't understand the question.
d) After Partition, what is to stop Turkey annexing the "TRNC" if neither
will be accepted into the EU.? Why would they want to annexe an allie
e) What goods can be imported into the "TRNC", that they are not
available right now via Turkey.? As people get richer and a stable economy is reached then everything.
f) How can the "TRNC" have a Government and run a country with
such small population without "Heavy Corruption" because it will be
the case of, most people will know someone that knows someone in
the Government and will ask for favours.? What like in the "RoC" you mean. I think you are showing a lack of trust for the people and not for the numbers of people here Kikapu. Totaly unfair and wrong.
g) Will the "TRNC" TC's tear up their RoC passports, once they got their
Partition or will the RoC do it for them, as no longer being Citizens
of the RoC.? That I am afraid is up to the individual and the "RoC". It has no obligation to an independant republic.

3. Can most of the items above NOT be achieved through a "TRUE
BBF". Is Partition really necessary, even if it means, there will
be some Greek spoken around some TC's.? As long as it is not main land Greek then we do not mind. I find the mother tongue hard to swallow.

4. Any answers.? See above.

Zan,

I just saw it few minutes ago, which made me re-post the questions again, with the emphasis that any Partition will be against the wishes of the RoC. I believe that would change some of your answers, because some of your answers sounded to me as if the RoC would BLESS any Partition. I'm sure if you went over your answers, you would end up changing most of them.

Thanks for giving it a go though Zan.

[zan]

You then need to change your questions because half of them do not make sense in that case.

[Viewpoint]

VP said

The "RoC" demands TCs move and live in the south for 6 months before they are eligable to apply to the GC courts for restitution of their property, if you feel that fair then will you accept the same principle for GCs moving to the TRNC for 6 months and applying to the TC courts?

VP there is slight difference the TC's wanting to reclaim property in the south are most likely occupying refugee property and the government is probably taking the stance of fairness and ensuring people are not further exploiting refugee property.

Otherwise yes I do agree that the same rule applys, however your racists regime in the north has already stated they do not wish greek seaking cypriots therefore we know what the outcome will be. A Big fat no you cannot claim your property or you can only have ha;f and we will compensate the rest at a rate we set, because if we gave you market value we will not afford to pay back all greek speaking cypriots and the property they own in the north.

Perhaps you should have asked Turkey to have invaded the south bak in 1974 you owned more land there. But ooooppps it's not close to motherland Turkey

Think beyond what or who you believe rules in the north...we accept all things being neutral, then we can continue with if you have an airport we have one as well, you get rid of the army we get rid of ours etc etc are you with me now?? Whatever you see fit for your community we have the same for ours....this approach is called creating a level playing field.