Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Allen Sugar is the host of the program "The Apprentice". The yankee version is hosted by someone with a big hairstyle whose name I can't remember at the moment.

[Kikapu]

Allen Sugar is the host of the program "The Apprentice". The yankee version is hosted by someone with a big hairstyle whose name I can't remember at the moment.

Donald Trump maybe.

The hair clue gave him away.

[zan]

Allen Sugar is the host of the program "The Apprentice". The yankee version is hosted by someone with a big hairstyle whose name I can't remember at the moment.

Donald Trump maybe.

The hair clue gave him away.

Bingo!


What have I eaten today...I have nearly beaten all records on being on the longest surely....

[Kikapu]

Allen Sugar is the host of the program "The Apprentice". The yankee version is hosted by someone with a big hairstyle whose name I can't remember at the moment.

Donald Trump maybe.

The hair clue gave him away.

Bingo!


What have I eaten today.???????..

I have nearly beaten all records on being on the longest surely..?????????..

Say What. ????????

[zan]

Allen Sugar is the host of the program "The Apprentice". The yankee version is hosted by someone with a big hairstyle whose name I can't remember at the moment.

Donald Trump maybe.

The hair clue gave him away.

Bingo!


What have I eaten today.???????..

I have nearly beaten all records on being on the longest surely..?????????..

Say What. ????????

I mean I have been posting for a long time today.....

[Filitsa]

I mean I have been posting for a long time today.....

Okay I'm laughing because I was just admonishing myself for doing the same, and then I came across this post of yours ... The cleaning lady cancelled. I got stuck doing it myself , and this forum got me through it. What's your excuse? A big thank you to those who today regaled me with their humor and dazzled me with their wit. My house is relatively clean and the laundry is done. I thank you, and my family thanks you.

[humanist]

am borred

[zan]

I mean I have been posting for a long time today.....

Okay I'm laughing because I was just admonishing myself for doing the same, and then I came across this post of yours ... The cleaning lady cancelled. I got stuck doing it myself , and this forum got me through it. What's your excuse? A big thank you to those who today regaled me with their humor and dazzled me with their wit. My house is relatively clean and the laundry is done. I thank you, and my family thanks you.

Early day from work. After all the rushing about I have been doing it just got slow. I sat in front of the computer and even had my lunch and dinner in front of it. As I say Just felt funny not working.

[Kikapu]

This is how I would like to see both communities coming together in a New United Cyprus under a Federal System of Government with Two States North (TC’s) and the South (GC’s) with Nicosia as the Capital City (Independent).


OK, here we go.


The road to the "peace solution" will take 10 years, so lets us assume we are at the end of 10 years today, so the year in Cyprus now is 2017 and we have a "New Country". So lets see how we got there.

Year 2007, both TC's and GC's agree on a Federation System with two separate states within the country of Cyprus. Lets call it the "United States of Cyprus" which will be North and South Cyprus. Both sides agree to take the full implementation of the Federal System into 2017, so that it becomes as such at the end of the road. in 2017, there are no longer the RoC or "TRNC". Just "United States of Cyprus"

All these events then need to be activated right away, in order to show that both sides are on their way to a Federal System.

1. Remove all checkpoints. No longer needed to show any ID to go back and forth between the North and the South.

2. All non Cypriots who are in the country will need to Register with the RoC. 2007 will be the cut off date for all those immigrants that are already in the country. All new arrivals will need to apply to the RoC first, before arrival.

3. RoC will have full control of it's borders to be able to control immigration, but these duties will be performed by the TC's in the North and GC's in the South until 2017.

4. The North will have Direct Trade and Flights to bring their economy up to par "leveling the playing field".

5. Turkish Troops and Greek Troops and their equipment start withdrawing from the island 10% each year for the next 10 years. For the TT, it will be 4,000 a year based on 40,000 and 1,000 GT based on 10,000. By year 2017, all foreign troops are gone.

6. All mine fields are cleared up by both sides.

7. Replace the Lira with the Cyprus Pound followed by the Euro.

8. Continue with the present political arrangement as it is now with both sides having their elected leaders until 2017. In 2017 there are no longer RoC or "TRNC".

9. All construction on GC land will stop and preserved to be returned back to its owners in the next 10 years. Those who bought GC land, will lose their rights to keep them. They can be reimbursed by a funds set up by the UN, on what they actually paid for the land, plus interest. Those who built homes or businesses on GC land, will have the option to buy the land from the GC owners at the market rate at that time, or else they can sell their house or businesses built on GC land, to the GC's. The TC's must be given the option to buy the land first from the original GC owners and cannot be forced out if they have a house or a business already built on it. Same will apply in the South. Then in the next 10 years, those GC's and TC's who wish to move back to their villages of before 1974, should be made possible and re united with their property.

Then we keep this going for the next 5 years for all sides to get to "know" each other a little better and build confidence. The North will start to develop economically.

By the end of 5th year, talks will start to form the new Federal Constitution by both sides. Using the last 5 years as a confidence building measure, it will be easier for both sides to agree on how to write the new constitution, to be put into use as of 2017. There is no hurry to get this done overnight. Lets take the time to put in all the ingredients that will make the Federal System workable. I would suggest we take 2 years to finish the New Constitution, so by year 2014, it will be ready to put into a referendum, to be voted by all Cypriots as "one man one vote" in a single referendum, but there must be at least 50+ % from each community must vote in favour, in order for the referendum to pass. This will be a safeguard as not to have just a majority vote, which will be dominated by the GC's.

After 8 years of making the adjustments of people shifting around the island, we will have better idea as to how many Cypriots will reside on which part of the island, plus the settlers whom half will gain automatic citizenship either through marriage or being born on the island to at least one Cypriot parent, and the other half will have to follow the rules of the new immigration policies of the New Constitution. Based on the number of Cypriots now living in the North, plus by those who intend on living in the North once the Federal System is in full force by 2017, will determine what the actual boundaries of the North and the South will be. It will only be a imaginary line, but never the less, those will be the borders between the two States. No doubt the North will be mostly TC's and the South will be mostly GC's.

On the 9th year, each State will then write their own state Constitution, knowing full well, that the Federal Constitution has all the protections to all Cypriots and that State Constitution cannot override it. Once again, the State constitution will be put into a State referendum which will needs to have the support of at least 50+% of the GC's and the TC's to pass.

By the end of year 10, we are ready to start our new federal Government.

We are all worried about the majority out voting the minority, due to the numbers. What I would like to suggest is, we get rid of all the Political Parties as they stand right now, from both sides. Lets get away from the coalition movement of a government ( Parliamentary system) to a direct majority win kind of voting. Just like in the states, we have the Democrats, the Republicans and Independents. Let people vote based on ideology and not on ethnic lines.

For instance, and this is just for fun by the way. If we had a "Extremist Party", who do you think will belong to that Party, as Cypriots.? My guess is, it will be all the Fascists, AOKA (A & B), TMT, the Grey Wolves, the Hawks and the Mean spirited!!. They all have something in common, don't they. Why does it matter, that they belong to different ethnicity when they all believe in similar ideology. Well, the same will apply to all those who want to belong to the Democratic, Republican and a Independent Party. Leaders will emerge to represent the Citizens of Cyprus who fall into these three main groups. The leaders can be a TC, GC, Armenian, and anyone else who is a Cypriot Citizen by birth. Citizens from all sides will vote for the party and it's leader because of what they stand for and not because they are GC ot a TC. This will take few years to adjust to this system, but in the end, it will be the way to go.

I will try to find Kifeas's voting Formula in the Government, even though it was based on a Parliamentary system of voting I believe, but it can be used as a model, as to how the citizens from each states are represented in the government.

You can all add your inputs if you like. This is just my idea as to how we can get from here to there in 10 years, with a Federal System as it is in the States for the most part. Of course it is just a "skeleton version", but will look better as pieces are added to the idea, as time goes on, within the 10 years period.

Having already agreed on a TWO State solution with a Federal System of Government, which the line separating both states will run East to West as it does right now, through Nicosia. I believe in today's society, it is counter productive to have a Capital City in TWO pieces, such as South and North Nicosia. It will be very disruptive to have TWO separate State laws (North & South) in ONE location. What I would propose, is to declare the whole of Nicosia as an Independent entity all together from the North and South States. Once again, the "United States of Cyprus" can take a lesson from the USA system, where the Capital city of the USA is Washington, which is situated in no ONE particular State at all, but at a non-state location, District of Columbia, DC. It is a fairly small place and all it has is just US Government Agencies as well as locals who live and work there. In another words, No ONE state can claim to be the Capital State of America. So, I would like to propose, that we do the same in Cyprus, which is to declare Nicosia the Capital of "United States of Cyprus". We can call it, Nicosia DC ( District of Cyprus).

Nicosia DC will be governed by a Mayor and board of Supervisors on all aspects of running a city, with TC's and GC's living and working under this system. Only Federal Laws will apply in Nicosia DC, but each ethnic group living in Nicosia DC, can register to vote for State Senators either in the North or the South, but cannot participate in the local elections of those States, even voting for representatives to congress, in the districts within those states. The residence of Nicosia DC, can vote for all Federal elections, as well as for their local government, ie Mayor, education secretary and so on. Police will be a Federal Force. One more way to really bring the citizens of Cyprus together with this arrangement.

So I think I have the physical structures worked out, for myself anyway, as what I see it to be fair to both sides and what is needed now is the power structure to be held by each ethnic group, as in a Parliamentary system, or close to what we had with the 1960 agreements, which was a disaster from the beginning, or as to what I've suggested, is to get rid of all Political Parties in Cyprus, and just adopt 3 main ones, Democrats, Republicans and Independents, and allow all Cypriots to vote on ideology and not along ethnic lines on choosing their political leaders.

Here are the main differences between the Democrats and the Republicans that I have copied for you:

The Democratic Party is considered to be the more liberal party, and the Republican, the more conservative. Democrats generally
believe that government has an obligation to provide social and
economic programs for those who need them. Republicans are not necessarily opposed to such programs but believe they are too costly to taxpayers. Republicans put more emphasis on encouraging private enterprise in the belief that a strong private sector makes citizens less dependent on government.

Both major parties have supporters among a wide variety of Americans and embrace a wide range of political views. Americans do not have to join a political party to vote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic ... _States%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican ... _States%29

If Cypriots follow these ideology of what the above represents, why would anyone care, if those running for office or become a representative of the citizens of the North State, South State or Nicosia DC, are a TC or GC or any other member of the Cypriot Citizen.

This is the formula crated by Kifeas, also known as "Kifeas's Plan" for POWER sharing in a Parliamentary system.

Quote:
If we have a house of 100 members (80 GCs plus 20 TCs) and decisions are taken on simple majority, it means that at least any 51 members out of the above 100 members will have to approve it. However, in order to qualify as simple majority, at least 4 (or 6) of the votes must come (included in the 51 votes needed) from the 20 TCs (20% or 30% of the TC members,) and at least 16 (or 24) of the votes must come from (included in the 51votes needed) from the 80 GCs.

For example we can have the following combination for simple majority to qualify.
I take a special case example that needs 30% minimum from each side.

Case 1:
6 TCs plus 45 GCs equals 51 /100. (Qualifies)

Case 2:
20 TCs plus 31 GCs equals 51 /100. (Qualifies)

Case 3:
5 TCs plus 46 GCs equals 51 /100 (it doesn’t qualify)

Case 4:
1 TC plus 80 GCs equals 81 /100 (it doesn’t qualify)

I don't know what method Kifeas has in mind, as far as choosing the President and the vice President through the Parliamentary system, so perhaps he can let us know. If we go with the "majority rule" in a 3 Party System, well, that is clear and simple. Let the best man or woman win.

The present laws on the books regarding education, property and inheritance rights, civil union rights and so on can be kept as is. We can add more, as far as right of Gays, and other minorities rights, if in fact, we do not have them. Since most of our laws seems to come from the British, I believe we can all live with those.

Greek and Turkish being the official language on the island will remain as such. I would also propose, that English is also included in that, being it is widely spoken on the island right now, at least in the South. English should become our SECOND language, so that we can bridge the gap between Turkish and Greek speakers, as well as all the foreigners/ guests on the island. Given the separation of the two communities in the last 44 years, I believe not too many young TC's speak Greek anymore, as they once did, before 1963. I can actually see English as becoming the "main" language in Cyprus in the next 25 years or less.

On the issue of State Flags. I believe each state can choose their own Flag, and considering that there's going to be other people living in each state, other than the two main groups ( GC's & TC's), it would be best to choose a flag that will not remind them of the past, so lets get away from anything that resembles the flags of Turkey and Greece. There are hundreds of choices each state can make, so why inflame the old wounds with reminders of the past by using Turkish or Greek flags. We will have until 2015 to decide how we want each state to write their own Constitution, which will not be Racist, Undemocratic or allows Human Right Violations. Federal laws and guidelines will control our borders and Immigration, and our foreign affairs, as well as maintaining the Federal Constitution, which will include separations of STATE and RELIGION.

Each State can sell their products to who ever they want, as long as all the Cypriots are not deprived of these very same goods, that will require them to be imported from other countries.

In the new Federal State, we will no longer need Guarantors, so as of 2017, Turkey, Greece and the UK will be excluded from our New Constitution. We will give the UK until 2027 to close all their Military Bases in Cyprus, 10 years after the RoC is no longer and return all the land back to Cyprus.

Once the Power structure is in place to be carried out, once the RoC and "TRNC" is dissolved, then begins the New Life in Cyprus. This to me will be the most fair way to move forward for all Cypriots. It will be accepted, that not all Cypriots will get what they want and compromises will need to be made by some, but it will most certainly have a better future for their future generations. Once all the political instability is removed, and Cyprus being in the EU, is the only way Cyprus can access her 100% potentials in economic growth and the standard of living for all it's citizens. We can then assist Turkey's entry into the EU, not too long after 2017.

I'm sure I have not covered every little details, but as a "foundation and a spring board" on how to get from "Here to There", this may be a way to move forward.

.

It seems like we have gone off topic a little, so let me bring the subject back in focus again, specially as Piratis and Erolz are arguing about the meaning of Democracy on another thread..

I get a little disappointed that most members on this forum who have lived large portions of their lives abroad as a minority, and at the same time may have even voted for a political party that did not even have one person from their own community in it, but they voted for that political party anyway without the fear that their community will be in some danger, because they lacked representation. The reason why they voted for that particular political party and not the other was based only on ideology and not on any ethnic make up of that Political Party. It is fair to say, that in the UK, where most forum members have come in contact with, and if voted, were voting for a Christian based Politicians and Government. They were not voting along ethnic lines, because it does not exists and neither does in any other country to the best of my knowledge. But when it comes to Cyprus, we want to only vote on ethnic lines and not on ideology. This is why I recommended in my above proposal to do away with the present political parties and adapt just 2 or 3 political parties with defined platforms that people can choose to vote on and not because the candidate is a GC or a TC. For all I care, it can be King Kong if he represents my ideas and not my ethnicity. This to me what Democracy is, that we are free to chose and the one that gets the most votes wins, but it does not mean that the ones who did NOT win, will lose everything. We are not electing a KING to rule by decree. We are electing a President and a Government. They can and will be replaced in the next elections, if they do not do what people voted for them to do. Now, that is a DEMOCRACY:

[zan]

You really are flogging a dead horse and then shouting at those around you who telling you that you are mad. The reason that I say that is because you are so mixed up and have forgotten all that has happened in Cyprus during your life time. When I vote in the UK I have nothing to compare but policies. They did not not try to kill me and my family. They are not holding my people under siege. We do not have a divided nation of which I was once a part. You insult every one of us with these comparisons in which you refuse to accept that we have a completely different situation to the UK or to wherever we were driven to by murdering genocidal thugs. You have no respect for our history and therefore you have concocted a recipe from ingredients that are not indigenous to our region. What the hell is the matter with you.