Cyprus-Forum.com

[rawk]

Was it Samuel Johnson of the Dictionary fame, who said?

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

Or when all your other arguments don't work, invoke the flag, the motherland, fatherland, the race, the people, the tribe, ein volk......?

Samuel Johnson 1709 to 1784

Rawk

[Southerner]

A patriot is one who feels and acts strongly for his country

A patriot is not a person who romantically feels strong about his country Southerner...A patriot seeks to see his country evolve.He fights for his country's best interests,without ever having to resort to extreme actions.
A true patriot does not put down other nations or religions.He is respective of the others,while he critisizes his own mother land(even harsly).It's called ''harsh'' love.

I'm glad to find that you agree with me, when you say "A true patriot does not put down other nations or religions. He is respective of the others"
Also if you'r going to quote me do it right.
A patriot has nothing to do with romance, according to the Concise Oxford Ditionary a patriot is one who defends or is zealous for his country's prosperity, freedom or rights, hence patriotic.. Nowhere is religion mentioned!
As miltiades quite rightly pointed out these latest terrorists can hardly be called patriots coming from at least four different countrys, Iraq is the only one of these four where it could be said that the UK has an issue with, the one thing that these fanatics (not patriots) all have in common is their religious fanaticism not patriotism.
To use patriotism in the same context as religious fanaticism is wrong.

To take it to your type of logics conclusion; after the Madrid bombings Roman Catholics all over the world should start killings muslims as the main religion of Spain is Roman Catholicism and many if not most of those killed were Roman Catholics murdered by muslims.

Surely if muslims were genuinly concerned about the missuse of the islamic faith by these barbarians then the first step is to put their own house in order first, I personaly have no wish to belong to such a fragmented disorganised religion I would have no idea which gang to join.

[Eliko]

"The savage loves his native shores", this well known saying sums up nicely the meaning of 'Patriotism', every person has a place of origin and most regard that place as their homeland.

On this forum there are many who leap to the defence of their country at the merest slight, they display all the characteristics of what one would expect of a patriot and they should be commended for that.

It is an honourable thing to be patriotic, it is also a right and a duty to be so, BUT, there are times when it becomes difficult.

I think we are now living in one of those difficult times, there is much conflict between many members (even within the confines of this small forum) and it grieves me to observe it.

The whole world seems to be in turmoil as we members exchange our views on various topics, harsh words and insults are tossed into most of the discussions and they become arguments due to those facts.

The end result is predictable,nothing will be solved, nothing will be learned and nothing will be gained by any of the participants.

Such a situation need not be the norm if we adopt a different approach to our exchanges, it is not difficult and is within the reach of us all.

First, let us accept that for as much as WE may be patriotic, OTHERS are as entitled to their own patriotic feelings, in accepting that small fact, we may begin to understand the differences that exist between us all.

There is little point in constantly referring to the words and agreements made between politicians when we know that they thrive on the very disharmony they create, repeating the logic of those who have led us into confusion, will not increase our knowledge, it will slowly destroy us.

If I utter the words of a wise man, that does not make me wise, it should make me strive for wisdom also for I have recognized it in him.

The current situation in the Middle East is a disgrace to the nations that are involved in it, we all know that, we all should condemn it, it will solve nothing and will end in shame.

We, as members of this forum, should not allow the hatreds apparent in those conflicts, to permeate our discussions here, we all know of the horrors resulting from the actions of suicide bombers and extremists, let us debate the origins of these actions, let us discover WHY these actions have become an everyday event, let us uncover the reasons for all this hatred, if we can do that, we may be able to understand our own actions and the actions of others, those who are different to ourselves.

The above post seems to have attracted a great deal of negativity from members and I must confess that I am somewhat bewildered since the fundamentals are so simple.

The post contains 12 paragraphs, each of these may be viewed as a question, statement of fact, or, opinion.

If you read them one by one, you may agree or disagree depending on your own perception.

Overall, I cannot understand how anyone can respond so negatively as there must be something within those paragraphs which rings true, UNLESS, you have become so blinded by the lies and deceit of politicians and their ilk that you are unable to think for yourselves.

Do you really imagine that by constantly presenting the same old responses to ALL matters concerning the inhuman unlawful attack on an innocent nation, you will justify it?, you bloody fools, that is exactly what your political leaders want you to do, you are putty in their hands whilst you are so transfixed.

Wake up for God's sake, your hatreds are obliterating your chances of seeing reason, I feel ashamed for you.................

[miltiades]

Eliko wrote:
""""We, as members of this forum, should not allow the hatreds apparent in those conflicts, to permeate our discussions here, we all know of the horrors resulting from the actions of suicide bombers and extremists, let us debate the origins of these actions, let us discover WHY these actions have become an everyday event, let us uncover the reasons for all this hatred, if we can do that, we may be able to understand our own actions and the actions of others, those who are different to ourselves. """"

Are you out of your mind Eliko or are you just craving for an argument . If you can answer why the suicide savages of Iraq are killing their own people and why 6 intelligent professionals from varying countries intertwined by a sick ideology commit such heinous acts , then you can have a debate

[Eliko]

miltiades, which of the 12 paragraphs do you disagree with ?.

Forget about your pet subject for a moment and THINK........

[alexISS]

Are you out of your mind Eliko or are you just craving for an argument . If you can answer why the suicide savages of Iraq are killing their own people and why 6 intelligent professionals from varying countries intertwined by a sick ideology commit such heinous acts , then you can have a debate

Suicide bombings are not acts triggered by patriotism (which is the subject of the thread), but by religious fanaticism. A religion can and will promise you heaven if you die (and take some with you) for it, a homeland will not.

[DT.]

"The savage loves his native shores", this well known saying sums up nicely the meaning of 'Patriotism', every person has a place of origin and most regard that place as their homeland.

On this forum there are many who leap to the defence of their country at the merest slight, they display all the characteristics of what one would expect of a patriot and they should be commended for that.

It is an honourable thing to be patriotic, it is also a right and a duty to be so, BUT, there are times when it becomes difficult.

I think we are now living in one of those difficult times, there is much conflict between many members (even within the confines of this small forum) and it grieves me to observe it.

The whole world seems to be in turmoil as we members exchange our views on various topics, harsh words and insults are tossed into most of the discussions and they become arguments due to those facts.

The end result is predictable,nothing will be solved, nothing will be learned and nothing will be gained by any of the participants.

Such a situation need not be the norm if we adopt a different approach to our exchanges, it is not difficult and is within the reach of us all.

First, let us accept that for as much as WE may be patriotic, OTHERS are as entitled to their own patriotic feelings, in accepting that small fact, we may begin to understand the differences that exist between us all.

There is little point in constantly referring to the words and agreements made between politicians when we know that they thrive on the very disharmony they create, repeating the logic of those who have led us into confusion, will not increase our knowledge, it will slowly destroy us.

If I utter the words of a wise man, that does not make me wise, it should make me strive for wisdom also for I have recognized it in him.

The current situation in the Middle East is a disgrace to the nations that are involved in it, we all know that, we all should condemn it, it will solve nothing and will end in shame.

We, as members of this forum, should not allow the hatreds apparent in those conflicts, to permeate our discussions here, we all know of the horrors resulting from the actions of suicide bombers and extremists, let us debate the origins of these actions, let us discover WHY these actions have become an everyday event, let us uncover the reasons for all this hatred, if we can do that, we may be able to understand our own actions and the actions of others, those who are different to ourselves.

The above post seems to have attracted a great deal of negativity from members and I must confess that I am somewhat bewildered since the fundamentals are so simple.

The post contains 12 paragraphs, each of these may be viewed as a question, statement of fact, or, opinion.

If you read them one by one, you may agree or disagree depending on your own perception.

Overall, I cannot understand how anyone can respond so negatively as there must be something within those paragraphs which rings true, UNLESS, you have become so blinded by the lies and deceit of politicians and their ilk that you are unable to think for yourselves.

Do you really imagine that by constantly presenting the same old responses to ALL matters concerning the inhuman unlawful attack on an innocent nation, you will justify it?, you bloody fools, that is exactly what your political leaders want you to do, you are putty in their hands whilst you are so transfixed.

Wake up for God's sake, your hatreds are obliterating your chances of seeing reason, I feel ashamed for you.................

Eliko, i think you've overblown (with a lot of help from others) a very simple point. EVeryone has the right to defend their countries position and if we afford everyone that right then we can discuss without insults and cussing cause they have as much right to defend their position as you do.

Now on the other subject by Miltiades...having been caught up in the 7/7 bombs with one exploding 2 minutes from my house near Edgware Rd with wife and kid inside and one on the bus i took to work No30 (was in Liverpool St havig breakfast instead on that day.) I have nothing but hate for these people and i am not interested to know the reasons why due to my hate for them clouding my common sense. I do however feel a hyupocrisy when you do not condemn US politicians for carpet bombing civilians, German luftwaffe for bombing house in london and the RAF brass for annihilating Dresden. These are one and the same crime as suicide bombers as far as i'm conerned.....the only difference is the western brass don't do us the favour of blowing up along with their cruise missiles.

[Eliko]

DT. you are so far off target when you accuse me of hypocrisy for failing to condemn the actions of the US in Iraq and elsewhere, if you look up my past posts you will find that I have strongly condemned them, more so than most I think.

I am sorry to hear of your 'close encounters', thank God you suffered no injury, nobody condones such events and that is why I wish we could discuss the reasons in some depth, WITHOUT the rantings and ravings of certain members of the forum.......Best wishes to you and your family....

[DT.]

DT. you are so far off target when you accuse me of hypocrisy for failing to condemn the actions of the US in Iraq and elsewhere, if you look up my past posts you will find that I have strongly condemned them, more so than most I think.

I am sorry to hear of your 'close encounters', thank God you suffered no injury, nobody condones such events and that is why I wish we could discuss the reasons in some depth, WITHOUT the rantings and ravings of certain members of the forum.......Best wishes to you and your family....

i wasn;t reffering to you Eliko

[Southerner]

German luftwaffe for bombing house in london and the RAF brass for annihilating Dresden. These are one and the same crime as suicide bombers as far as i'm conerned.....the only difference is the western brass don't do us the favour of blowing up along with their cruise missiles.

The Germans were the first to carpet bomb civilians, starting well before WWII war in Spain during the Spanish civil war, and then throughout Europe long before the UK entered the war, Hitler then decided to bomb none strategic/military sites in the UK, had we not stopped Rommel at El Alamein his next stop would have been the arab oilfields; you would now be saluting 'hiel hitler' not praise be to allah. The bombing of Dresden was not in retaliation but to reduce the civilians ability to provide munitions/equipment for hitlers was effort.

Let's get one thing straight the suicide bombers are terrorists whether they are killing muslims in iraq, bombing sites in the UK or carrying explosives onto airliners, terms like patriot and militia are a missuse in this context.