Cyprus-Forum.com

[Greek Cypriot]

Ok, I agree that Turkish Cypriots are not like mainland Turks in this respect. On the other hand, you accepted Dectash as a leader for over 30 years, he brought all these settlers and vote for him, and what did you do about it? I think you got used to it, or atleast this situation didn't bother you enough to revolt against him. So I really believe that many TC don't know what it means to live in a real democracy and theirfore they can not understand how valuable this can be for us.

We were under the ottomans, then the british and just 3 years after independence TC left from the goverment (or forced to leave. I am not discussing that now) 3 years of democracy, and probably not very good one since it was just the begining, I don't think were enough for TC to learn and appreciate it.

[metecyp]

you accepted Dectash as a leader for over 30 years, he brought all these settlers and vote for him, and what did you do about it?

Yes, T/Cs accepted Denktash as leader for a long time but as you already admitted, settlers from Turkey were brought to support him. Many T/Cs did not support his policies, especially after 1990s, but it was too late to do anything about it since settlers were already too great in numbers.

I think you got used to it, or atleast this situation didn't bother you enough to revolt against him

Do you ever watch Turkish Cypriot news? Last December there was a huge peace/EU demonstration where 80.000 T/Cs attended asking for peace, EU and Denktash's resignation. Borders are partially open now due to T/C movement in the past 3-4 years. T/C did revolt as much as they could. The sad part is I never saw any demonstration on the Greek side supporting T/C movement for peace, correct me if I'm wrong.

So I really believe that many TC don't know what it means to live in a real democracy and theirfore they can not understand how valuable this can be for us.

Actually quite the contrary is true. Since T/Cs did not experience real democracy, they have a bigger desire for democracy. You don't have to live in a democracy to understand the value of it. You probably think that T/Cs want EU just for money but actually almost all T/Cs support EU for European standards of living both economically and politically including democracy.
Since T/Cs are asking for some extra rights for the transition period in Cyprus does not mean that they do not want or support democracy.

[PEACE]

You don't sound like you want a solution but like you are trying to get as many benefits for yourself as you can.

What I proposed meets most of your demands, most of which are unfair anyways

Yes i want a solution with Annan Plan ! The plan has a sensetive balance and both side will get 50%.I demanded NOTHING but this is the Annan Plan as its ! If i'm wanting something that is releated with the security of our rights that are given by Annan Plan!

However after accepting your demands i wanted some new concessions from you. Why? Cos its changing the balance system after 10-20 years (for exp.) We can't know that time's and trust bridges' situation.May be we can say after 20 years but after 10 years it become OK! or we decide for 10 years but we can see after that we are not ready for that!You have to give me some concessions about security of new system that in Turkish Cypriot State Tcs won't be minority ! Can you see that all i want after Annan Plan point is for security of the rights that are given to us? Noıne of us want temporary rights than minority rights!
These rights(the rights that Annan Plan gives to Tcs) are not given to Tcs for 10-20 etc period! Some limitations is for protection of these !

You have to understand that if a solution is to be found it should be something that will benefit both of us. What I propose benefits you a lot more than us, but you still ask for more.

I'm ready to accept Annan Plan as its if we are not going to loose them after changes in the system! Yes it is going to be both sides' benefit but you see 50% for Tcs is too much and don't accept getting %50 !Your "both side's benefit" solution is %20 rights to Tcs and %80 to Gcs!

What the leadership and the majority of TC demand for is a disguised independent state

This is Annan Plan ! Each state will be sovereign and independent in their internal affairs ! But both of them will work together in foreign affairs!

[Greek Cypriot]

I will not repeat myself. I just want to say something about security.

You keep telling us about how insecure TC feel. Please tell me why you think TC should feel more insecure than GC.
1)Say all troops in Cyprus are removed. Turkey has an army several times bigger than Greece and it is just 5 minutes away from CYprus. Greece has much less power, and it is much further also.

2)In the north we see very often about threats and bombs againsts journalists and politicians. The people that do these things are definatly far right ones, and probably they will not like TC and GC to be together again. So they might try to create problems. When was the last time that you heared such thing to happen on our side?

3)Turkish Settlers are a big question mark for us. They might be ok, they might create problems also.

Therefore If somebody should feel insecure, that would be us, not you.
But we do not feel insecure, because we know EU will not allow anything to happen, because we see that now that "borders" opened everything is going smoothly between GC and TC.

So ask yourselfs. Are these fears real? Are we really afraid of GC? I am sure you will come to the conclusion that all these fears are nothing more than the propaganda of Dectash that for ages he tried to convince you that GC and TC can not live together.

[Greek Cypriot]

Also I accept that for several years we can keep a list of "unwanted persons". This way we can block out from our side people that support terrorist organizations like gray wolves, and you can block out former supporters of EOKA-B (it would be nice if we could block those from all sides actually!!).

[PEACE]

Please tell me why you think TC should feel more insecure than GC.

I want to say my thought about what you asked !

No ! I'm not afraiding that GCs will kill us or they will make trouble etc.
I said before that we can live together as close neighbours.What i afraid is being a minority in TCS and couldn't govern and take decisions after a time period.I afraid from the order and sensetive balances of rights can spoin in time due to the changing of population in TCS.

Ah also i afraid from racialist behaviours among Gcs... Anyway...But i'm sure most of the GCs are so mature to not to that !

That's all ! I never thought that massacres can be again!

[PEACE]

Also I accept that for several years we can keep a list of "unwanted persons".

Yes ! This must be !

Therefore If somebody should feel insecure, that would be us, not you.

So we can accept major punishments for who helps,tries to spoil new order !