Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

What would be ideal would be to unite our country and have one Cyprus with no borders where everybody is just equal Cypriot citizens without racist or other kind of discriminations. Unfortunately such solution doesn’t seem feasible because it is clear that TCs want a separate part of the island which they will control just by themselves. The result of satisfying that demand would be partition, no matter how we label it.

So the options that we have are only 2:

1) Agree on partition based on a fair land (and coast) distribution of 18% for TCs -82% for GCs

OR

2) Continue the cold war we have now and wait for the right time to liberate our country

Here I want to see if (1) is indeed an acceptable solution for both sides.

The Turkish side will make an official proposal to UN and Republic of Cyprus for ending the Cyprus dispute in the above mentioned way. Then the sides will negotiate only one thing, and that would be which land exactly will be that 18% of land and coast that will go to TCs. (the percentage of land will not be negotiable. It should be clear from before that it will be 18%-82% for both land and coastline)

When that is agreed the UN will prepare another referendum that will basically include the land distribution maps of 18%-82% as agreed. The other parameters of the plan will also be very simple:

TCs will have to give back all land except that 18% within the next 10 years in several phases starting soon after the plan is approved.

The Turkish army will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs within those 10 years.

All Settlers will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs.

The TC state will not be obligated to accept any GCs as residents and the GC state will not be obligated to accept any TCs as residents. So basically all TCs will have to move to the TC state and all GCs to the GC state.

When the Turkish side returns the land and keeps only the 18% agreed, then that part of Cyprus will be recognized as independent by the UN. (so if they return the land earlier than scheduled, then they can gain recognition earlier. If they delay, then recognition will also delay)

The GCs will deal with the claims of the GC refugees that will not return and any other GC that can have a claim.

The TCs will deal with the claims of TCs that previously owned land in the GC state, or any other claims by TCs.

After the land transfer is completed and the land distribution is settled at 18%-82% then no GC can have a claim against TCs or Turkey, and no TC can have a claim against GCs or Greece.

As you can see it is very simple and clean, and all is needed is for the Turkish side to honor the agreement and return the land.

Unilaterally our side could declare that if any TCs currently living in the free areas of RoC want to continue living here, then they will be accepted, however they will not have any additional privileges such as those given to them by the 1960 agreements. They will just be equal Cypriot citizens like all the rest. (The TCs are not obligated to do the same in their state)

In the future as two independent states TCs and GCs can move to further integration if they both want to. (e.g. by accession of the TC state in EU)

So who agrees and who doesn’t? Please be clear with a YES or a NO as if the above was placed in a referendum. I will not create a poll so we can all see who voted what and leave no shades. You can just make a post to say “yes” or “no” and say nothing more if you don’t want to.

[74LB]

1 - No
In my view, absolutley impossible to agree and implement an 18% land/coastline distribution, much as this may be what you and others crave for.

For what its worth my response to No 2 is No also.

[DT.]

this plan has its dangers. 18% of the land with the coast whould mean that the tc state would have no place to go other than the triangle Nicosia, Kyrenia, Morphou. Being the 3 basic cities that are now in the north would not mean a big difference to the TC side. On the other hand the GC refugees would not return to Kyrenia, Morphou or the Nicosia District.

Having said that, rather than option 2 I would go for this and work for re-unification later on.

Yes

[Murataga]

What would be ideal would be to unite our country and have one Cyprus with no borders where everybody is just equal Cypriot citizens without racist or other kind of discriminations. Unfortunately such solution doesn’t seem feasible because it is clear that TCs want a separate part of the island which they will control just by themselves. The result of satisfying that demand would be partition, no matter how we label it.

So the options that we have are only 2:

1) Agree on partition based on a fair land (and coast) distribution of 18% for TCs -82% for GCs

OR

2) Continue the cold war we have now and wait for the right time to liberate our country

Here I want to see if (1) is indeed an acceptable solution for both sides.

The Turkish side will make an official proposal to UN and Republic of Cyprus for ending the Cyprus dispute in the above mentioned way. Then the sides will negotiate only one thing, and that would be which land exactly will be that 18% of land and coast that will go to TCs. (the percentage of land will not be negotiable. It should be clear from before that it will be 18%-82% for both land and coastline)

When that is agreed the UN will prepare another referendum that will basically include the land distribution maps of 18%-82% as agreed. The other parameters of the plan will also be very simple:

TCs will have to give back all land except that 18% within the next 10 years in several phases starting soon after the plan is approved.

The Turkish army will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs within those 10 years.

All Settlers will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs.

The TC state will not be obligated to accept any GCs as residents and the GC state will not be obligated to accept any TCs as residents. So basically all TCs will have to move to the TC state and all GCs to the GC state.

When the Turkish side returns the land and keeps only the 18% agreed, then that part of Cyprus will be recognized as independent by the UN. (so if they return the land earlier than scheduled, then they can gain recognition earlier. If they delay, then recognition will also delay)

The GCs will deal with the claims of the GC refugees that will not return and any other GC that can have a claim.

The TCs will deal with the claims of TCs that previously owned land in the GC state, or any other claims by TCs.

After the land transfer is completed and the land distribution is settled at 18%-82% then no GC can have a claim against TCs or Turkey, and no TC can have a claim against GCs or Greece.

As you can see it is very simple and clean, and all is needed is for the Turkish side to honor the agreement and return the land.

Unilaterally our side could declare that if any TCs currently living in the free areas of RoC want to continue living here, then they will be accepted, however they will not have any additional privileges such as those given to them by the 1960 agreements. They will just be equal Cypriot citizens like all the rest. (The TCs are not obligated to do the same in their state)

In the future as two independent states TCs and GCs can move to further integration if they both want to. (e.g. by accession of the TC state in EU)

So who agrees and who doesn’t? Please be clear with a YES or a NO as if the above was placed in a referendum. I will not create a poll so we can all see who voted what and leave no shades. You can just make a post to say “yes” or “no” and say nothing more if you don’t want to.

An overly simplistic approach for partitioning the land based on population ratio can not be accepted because it is not necessarily fair. There are additional criteria that have to be addressed. Let me elaborate with an example: Egypt is an area of little over than 1 million square kilometers. However, the majority of its population is condensed in an area of 40000 square kilometers (4% of the land) along the Nile river since this is the only arable agricultural part of the country. If Cypriots were living in Egypt, it would not make any sense for me to offer you 96% of the land let alone 82% if that area was the desert. This phenomenon extends mainly to parameters of strategic concerns, natural resources, arable land distribution and economic constraints in the case of Cyprus. Neither I or you are an expert about these specific topics. If the experts of the two sides jointly get together and agree on a scheme I would be o.k. even with less than 18%. But you must agree that you may have to cope with less than what you anticipate if the committe agrees on a scheme.

[Piratis]

Murataga, we know very well that you would accept what some committee says only if you agree with it. If that was not the case you would have dissolved the "trnc" when the UN declared it as illegal. Cyprus is no Egypt and has no deserts. Cyprus on the other hand depends on tourism which makes the coastline its more important asset. We can discuss of which areas will that 18% constitute in order to make sure that coastline, and other resources are fairly distributed based on 18%-82% proportion. This thread is if you accept 18%-82% or not. I take Muratagas answer as a "no".

So far we have 2 GCs with "yes" and two TCs with "no".

[T_C]

I also agree 100% ...

Plus after all the promises from the international community that were unfulfilled because of lobbying I think the TCs would be spoilt rotten and we would prosper like never before. The less land the more the people would prosper (but 18% is less enough)

We would not regret it! I say YES!

[Kifeas]

What would be ideal would be to unite our country and have one Cyprus with no borders where everybody is just equal Cypriot citizens without racist or other kind of discriminations. Unfortunately such solution doesn’t seem feasible because it is clear that TCs want a separate part of the island which they will control just by themselves. The result of satisfying that demand would be partition, no matter how we label it.

So the options that we have are only 2:

1) Agree on partition based on a fair land (and coast) distribution of 18% for TCs -82% for GCs

OR

2) Continue the cold war we have now and wait for the right time to liberate our country

Here I want to see if (1) is indeed an acceptable solution for both sides.

The Turkish side will make an official proposal to UN and Republic of Cyprus for ending the Cyprus dispute in the above mentioned way. Then the sides will negotiate only one thing, and that would be which land exactly will be that 18% of land and coast that will go to TCs. (the percentage of land will not be negotiable. It should be clear from before that it will be 18%-82% for both land and coastline)

When that is agreed the UN will prepare another referendum that will basically include the land distribution maps of 18%-82% as agreed. The other parameters of the plan will also be very simple:

TCs will have to give back all land except that 18% within the next 10 years in several phases starting soon after the plan is approved.

The Turkish army will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs within those 10 years.

All Settlers will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs.

The TC state will not be obligated to accept any GCs as residents and the GC state will not be obligated to accept any TCs as residents. So basically all TCs will have to move to the TC state and all GCs to the GC state.

When the Turkish side returns the land and keeps only the 18% agreed, then that part of Cyprus will be recognized as independent by the UN. (so if they return the land earlier than scheduled, then they can gain recognition earlier. If they delay, then recognition will also delay)

The GCs will deal with the claims of the GC refugees that will not return and any other GC that can have a claim.

The TCs will deal with the claims of TCs that previously owned land in the GC state, or any other claims by TCs.

After the land transfer is completed and the land distribution is settled at 18%-82% then no GC can have a claim against TCs or Turkey, and no TC can have a claim against GCs or Greece.

As you can see it is very simple and clean, and all is needed is for the Turkish side to honor the agreement and return the land.

Unilaterally our side could declare that if any TCs currently living in the free areas of RoC want to continue living here, then they will be accepted, however they will not have any additional privileges such as those given to them by the 1960 agreements. They will just be equal Cypriot citizens like all the rest. (The TCs are not obligated to do the same in their state)

In the future as two independent states TCs and GCs can move to further integration if they both want to. (e.g. by accession of the TC state in EU)

So who agrees and who doesn’t? Please be clear with a YES or a NO as if the above was placed in a referendum. I will not create a poll so we can all see who voted what and leave no shades. You can just make a post to say “yes” or “no” and say nothing more if you don’t want to.

Piratis, in view of the fact that a large proportion of TCs that currently hold a RoC citizenship (and also via it an EU citizenship) will most likely opt to retain their status and remain within the boundaries of the area under the RoC, and because no EU country has the right to eradicate such citizenship status to anyone of its people without their personal consent; would you agree that depending on the proportion of such TCs choosing to hold on to their current RoC status, there should be a further equivalent proportional reduction in the area that will be partitioned for the TCs? What I mean by that is that if let's say 50% of TCs will choose to retain their RoC and EU status, then the area of the partitioned state will have to come down to 9% of the area of Cyprus, etc.

[DT.]

What would be ideal would be to unite our country and have one Cyprus with no borders where everybody is just equal Cypriot citizens without racist or other kind of discriminations. Unfortunately such solution doesn’t seem feasible because it is clear that TCs want a separate part of the island which they will control just by themselves. The result of satisfying that demand would be partition, no matter how we label it.

So the options that we have are only 2:

1) Agree on partition based on a fair land (and coast) distribution of 18% for TCs -82% for GCs

OR

2) Continue the cold war we have now and wait for the right time to liberate our country

Here I want to see if (1) is indeed an acceptable solution for both sides.

The Turkish side will make an official proposal to UN and Republic of Cyprus for ending the Cyprus dispute in the above mentioned way. Then the sides will negotiate only one thing, and that would be which land exactly will be that 18% of land and coast that will go to TCs. (the percentage of land will not be negotiable. It should be clear from before that it will be 18%-82% for both land and coastline)

When that is agreed the UN will prepare another referendum that will basically include the land distribution maps of 18%-82% as agreed. The other parameters of the plan will also be very simple:

TCs will have to give back all land except that 18% within the next 10 years in several phases starting soon after the plan is approved.

The Turkish army will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs within those 10 years.

All Settlers will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs.

The TC state will not be obligated to accept any GCs as residents and the GC state will not be obligated to accept any TCs as residents. So basically all TCs will have to move to the TC state and all GCs to the GC state.

When the Turkish side returns the land and keeps only the 18% agreed, then that part of Cyprus will be recognized as independent by the UN. (so if they return the land earlier than scheduled, then they can gain recognition earlier. If they delay, then recognition will also delay)

The GCs will deal with the claims of the GC refugees that will not return and any other GC that can have a claim.

The TCs will deal with the claims of TCs that previously owned land in the GC state, or any other claims by TCs.

After the land transfer is completed and the land distribution is settled at 18%-82% then no GC can have a claim against TCs or Turkey, and no TC can have a claim against GCs or Greece.

As you can see it is very simple and clean, and all is needed is for the Turkish side to honor the agreement and return the land.

Unilaterally our side could declare that if any TCs currently living in the free areas of RoC want to continue living here, then they will be accepted, however they will not have any additional privileges such as those given to them by the 1960 agreements. They will just be equal Cypriot citizens like all the rest. (The TCs are not obligated to do the same in their state)

In the future as two independent states TCs and GCs can move to further integration if they both want to. (e.g. by accession of the TC state in EU)

So who agrees and who doesn’t? Please be clear with a YES or a NO as if the above was placed in a referendum. I will not create a poll so we can all see who voted what and leave no shades. You can just make a post to say “yes” or “no” and say nothing more if you don’t want to.

Piratis, in view of the fact that a large proportion of TCs that currently hold a RoC citizenship (and also via it an EU citizenship) will most likely opt to retain their status and remain within the boundaries of the area under the RoC, and because no EU country has the right to eradicate such citizenship status to anyone of its people without their personal consent; would you agree that depending on the proportion of such TCs choosing to hold on to their current RoC status, there should be a further equivalent proportional reduction in the area that will be partitioned for the TCs? What I mean by that is that if let's say 50% of TCs will choose to retain their RoC and EU status, then the area of the partitioned state will have to come down to 9% of the area of Cyprus, etc.

whats your vote on what he posted kifeas?

[T_C]

I knew that would be coming after what I wrote

Even if we all agreed on partition it would take us another 40 years to agree on percentages and another 40 years to decide what part of the land goes to whom.

Cyprus problem will NEVER be solved!!! We will never agree on anything!!!

I am heading out to have a load of fun, I cant be bothered anymore

[Kifeas]

What would be ideal would be to unite our country and have one Cyprus with no borders where everybody is just equal Cypriot citizens without racist or other kind of discriminations. Unfortunately such solution doesn’t seem feasible because it is clear that TCs want a separate part of the island which they will control just by themselves. The result of satisfying that demand would be partition, no matter how we label it.

So the options that we have are only 2:

1) Agree on partition based on a fair land (and coast) distribution of 18% for TCs -82% for GCs

OR

2) Continue the cold war we have now and wait for the right time to liberate our country

Here I want to see if (1) is indeed an acceptable solution for both sides.

The Turkish side will make an official proposal to UN and Republic of Cyprus for ending the Cyprus dispute in the above mentioned way. Then the sides will negotiate only one thing, and that would be which land exactly will be that 18% of land and coast that will go to TCs. (the percentage of land will not be negotiable. It should be clear from before that it will be 18%-82% for both land and coastline)

When that is agreed the UN will prepare another referendum that will basically include the land distribution maps of 18%-82% as agreed. The other parameters of the plan will also be very simple:

TCs will have to give back all land except that 18% within the next 10 years in several phases starting soon after the plan is approved.

The Turkish army will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs within those 10 years.

All Settlers will have to move out of the 82% that will belong to GCs.

The TC state will not be obligated to accept any GCs as residents and the GC state will not be obligated to accept any TCs as residents. So basically all TCs will have to move to the TC state and all GCs to the GC state.

When the Turkish side returns the land and keeps only the 18% agreed, then that part of Cyprus will be recognized as independent by the UN. (so if they return the land earlier than scheduled, then they can gain recognition earlier. If they delay, then recognition will also delay)

The GCs will deal with the claims of the GC refugees that will not return and any other GC that can have a claim.

The TCs will deal with the claims of TCs that previously owned land in the GC state, or any other claims by TCs.

After the land transfer is completed and the land distribution is settled at 18%-82% then no GC can have a claim against TCs or Turkey, and no TC can have a claim against GCs or Greece.

As you can see it is very simple and clean, and all is needed is for the Turkish side to honor the agreement and return the land.

Unilaterally our side could declare that if any TCs currently living in the free areas of RoC want to continue living here, then they will be accepted, however they will not have any additional privileges such as those given to them by the 1960 agreements. They will just be equal Cypriot citizens like all the rest. (The TCs are not obligated to do the same in their state)

In the future as two independent states TCs and GCs can move to further integration if they both want to. (e.g. by accession of the TC state in EU)

So who agrees and who doesn’t? Please be clear with a YES or a NO as if the above was placed in a referendum. I will not create a poll so we can all see who voted what and leave no shades. You can just make a post to say “yes” or “no” and say nothing more if you don’t want to.

An overly simplistic approach for partitioning the land based on population ratio can not be accepted because it is not necessarily fair. There are additional criteria that have to be addressed. Let me elaborate with an example: Egypt is an area of little over than 1 million square kilometers. However, the majority of its population is condensed in an area of 40000 square kilometers (4% of the land) along the Nile river since this is the only arable agricultural part of the country. If Cypriots were living in Egypt, it would not make any sense for me to offer you 96% of the land let alone 82% if that area was the desert. This phenomenon extends mainly to parameters of strategic concerns, natural resources, arable land distribution and economic constraints in the case of Cyprus. Neither I or you are an expert about these specific topics. If the experts of the two sides jointly get together and agree on a scheme I would be o.k. even with less than 18%. But you must agree that you may have to cope with less than what you anticipate if the committe agrees on a scheme.

Moutarga, cut the crap and listen to another theory!

Malta has only 316 sq. kms of area (less than 4% of Cyprus,) it has no water, no trees, no natural resources, and yet, it is the home of 400,000 prospering Maltese that have a per capita GDP almost equal to that of the RoC and 4 times higher than that of your motherland Turkey!

Based on the valid theory of historical rights, (and not on the ottoman or medieval theory of "I grabbed your land and therefore its mine;") the Greek Cypriots are the 82% and have been in this country for at least 3,500 years, or since the beginning of recorded (written) history, and the TCs are 18% and have only been here for the last 400 years. If we make the splitting based on the equation of demographics X (times) length of historical and cultural presence in Cyprus, then you are not entitled to any more than 2% of Cyprus.