Cyprus-Forum.com

[Rain]

You see Jerry you talk like a parrot telling me old stories that you have listened from your grandma.
You go and hung your self as whatever you say nothing will change, the Turkish Cypriots live today more safe than you can even consider. As for you and all others that think like you I feel sorry. The fox dreams nothing but chicken.

[Kifeas]

Bullshit Piratis, It seems last night you slept without your underwear, that make you wake up with the idea to offer the Turkish Cypriots 18% of the land and keep the 82% for your self. Congratulations Bravo You might as well offer the British some percentage from that 18% perhaps then only the Turkish Cypriots will accept your idea.
Piratis listen carefully, today the Turkish Cypriots control 40% and there is no way that any percentage will be given to the Greek Cypriots . If a situation has been created due to war the only way to change it is by war. Can you afford that? Instead of wasting your time writing bullshit think of ways that the Turkish Cypriot administration will allow residents of Ammohoustos to return back, and to be clear for that to happen you have to accept that the Turkish Cypriots are socially, economically, politically equal partners of the republic. Unless you realize this reality nothing will change till hell freezes.

and

Jerry ,
The term that the North is controlled by Turkey or the Turkish Cypriots is does not change anything other then that no Greek Cypriot administrator has any jurisdiction on the 40% of the land that you can call it what ever you like. Today on that 40% of land live the Turkish Cypriots if you still not aware.
Turkey joining the EU or not you better find out the amount of business interests that the EU has with Turkey a 74 million market that makes 1/3 of the EU population . On the other hand I will like to give you one more information that I sure you are not aware, Turkey is one of the few countries in the world that is self sufficient and does not need the EU , on the contrary EU needs Turkey. So Jerry you see EU is not a factor in the Cyprus issue.
Never mind if TRNC is not recognized officially by any other country other than Turkey, that is not a big deal one day they WILL.
reference to your Quote regarding that only civillized countries are in the EU, well old boy Turkey is more civillized the most countries in the EU. Advise you to have a visit to Turkey and widness your self other than reading books written by imperialist powers.

Little “Rain,” if things were as simple and easy as in your wrongful desperation you wish to see them, you wouldn’t have felt the need to write such diluted, nevertheless inflammatory posts like the ones you have made above. You are obviously someone who has been “benefited” by involving in the unlawful grapping of Greek Cypriot properties, and all your talking and arguments is the product of dissembled thoughts.

You are a desperate poor fellow, “Rain!” You are also a scum without morals and ethics! In a nutshell, you are a piece of sh*t! You said that “If a situation has been created due to war the only way to change it is by war.” Well, I would like to say this to you! Even though such an option is not entirely ruled out by us in the future, and soon you will feel this fact when the source of your “bravado,” Turkey, will have to double its military presence in Cyprus so that scums like you may feel safe in continuing their looting of occupied Cyprus; what you have said is not true any longer! It may have been the case during the Ottoman era, when whoever was more numerous and powerful, could easily invade, grab and usurp the land of other people. Not any longer poor scum! Today, we have international law, we have the UN, we have international courts, we have human rights laws and declarations, we have the Council of Europe, and finally we have the EU which has been your greatest defeat since 1974, since we managed to make the whole of Cyprus under the sovereignty and jurisdiction of the RoC, a full member of it; despite all your objections and threats!

According to all the above entities I have listed, north Cyprus is an integral part of the sovereignty of the RoC, which is under an illegal occupation by Turkey! Go and figure out what this means, and for how long you and your mama Turka will manage to hold onto your illegalities and human right violations, all against international law and against the declarations and resolutions of all the above entities! I wish you “good luck,” because you will definitely need it!

As for your mama Turkey and its kitsch primitive kemalist ideology, she is a paper tiger! When we will eventually turn down its EU accession process in the near future, “good luck” to her too; for it will not be able to face its huge internal problems, which are all the product of its neo-ottoman fascist kemalist ideology! So far, the Islamists, the Kurds and many other incongruous interest groups have all placed all their hopes in the Europeanization of Turkey. When this prospect is gone, “thy god save Turkey” and, “have a good splitting apart!”

[Murataga]

Murataga, you are obviously not aware of the attitude of the Turkish military towards the importance of Cyprus as a base.

I am well aware and very glad about it. There is nothing wrong with their and our interests coinciding in Cyprus: Cyprus will not become a Hellenic island. We hope that it remains as important it is to them for long time because the alternative to that is assimilation, slavery and suffering in the the hands of a racist GC leadership for us (read about the 1963-1974 period for more details).

The Turkish Cypriot leadership was prepared to sacrifce its own people in order to partition the island, they were as much to blame for the trouble in the early 60s as the GCs and as a minority they were seen to be the victims, indeed it was essential they became victims in order to get help from Turkey.

This is an absolute perversion of history and circumstances. You are making it sound like you wanted ENOSIS and we wanted Taksim, so we are even. NO! That is completely wrong. ENOSIS was offensive in nature and Taksim was defensive. It was the GC administration that made their policy to annex the whole of Cyprus to Greece first and stuck by this at all times which in return gave the most inalienable right to the TCs to resist. Outnumbered 1 to 4, and constantly living under this threat, it was the TCs` right to defend themselves. Proceeding events and the actions of the GCs have shown how justified the TCs were for being concerned regarding the GC aggression. Do not compare or confuse the aggression of one side with the defense of the other. When you try to hit a person and he covers himself, you can not say that “the two are in a conflict and or the victim had plans to fight all along”. ENOSIS is you saying “Cyprus is going to be handed over to Greece”, Taksim is us saying “if so we are not going along so give us a part of Cyprus”. The fact that EOKA was established (to terminate anything that stood in the way of ENOSIS) before TMT (first 1955, latter 1958) is in itself the most revealing evidence alone that you wanted ENOSIS first and we, as a reaction afterwards, resisted. With a president declaring (4 September 1963):

“ Unless this small Turkish Community forming a part of the Turkish race which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism is expelled, the duty of the heroes of EOKA can never be considered terminated. Either whole of Cyprus is to be terminated with Greece or it will become a Holocaust”

and making tens of similar statements around Cyprus and the world, you dare to manipulate on our need for protecting ourselves from becoming subjects of Greece? Your attempts in trying put the TC victim with the GC aggressor in the same category will just not do here.

Did you ever stop and ask yourself why there was so much anti Turkish feeling in the middle of the last century?

Of course and I know the answer for a fact: because the GCs wanted ENOSIS (the annexation of Cyprus to Greece), they started a military campaign to achieve it in 1955 and the TCs refused and resisted. The Turkish Military arrived 19 long years later after the Greek military officially took over the island in whole. So again: get your facts straight.

[Jerry]

Murataga you seem to be a bit short in the history department. You say that Takism was a defensive response to ENOSIS, can't you accept that ENOSIS was a defensive response to oppression as perceived by Greek Cypriots. I'll quote the Smyrna holocaust for a start and no doubt you will reply with the Turkish exit from Crete. We go round in circles. You have live in a state that was illegaly created by force that will never be accepted, as presently constituted, by the civilised world. As for the Turkish military, they were in a position to solve the Cyprus Problem in July 1974 without the need to "conquer" 37% of the island. If you care to read the details of the negotiations between the first and second part of the invasion you will see that whatever concessions were made to Turkey that country was determined to occupy a large part of Cyprus. I do wish you would stop telling me to get my facts straight, its both childish and tedious.

[Pyrpolizer]

I was away for a couple of days, and I just noticed interesting developments in the forum...
Partition was the subject when I first joined so I will repeat the same things.

1)Politically its naive. The side who will propose it first will be doomed. If the GCs propose it first is like they "have agreed on the concept" the only thing left is to agree the prercentage. So in the end they will get zero back
2)Partition is not like giving part of Cyprus to the TCs. It's like giving part of Cyprus to Turkey. The Tcs will be wiped off very soon and be replaced by settlers.
3)Every State needs military. Who is going to cover the TC part if not Turkey herself? And at what price?
4)Economically it will be a catastrophy for both sides. Too much competition for exactly the same products and services.

I am not answering YES nor NO because not only the question is hypothetical, but has zero chances to ever become an option.

[Kifeas]

Murataga you seem to be a bit short in the history department. You say that Takism was a defensive response to ENOSIS, can't you accept that ENOSIS was a defensive response to oppression as perceived by Greek Cypriots. I'll quote the Smyrna holocaust for a start and no doubt you will reply with the Turkish exit from Crete. We go round in circles. You have live in a state that was illegaly created by force that will never be accepted, as presently constituted, by the civilised world. As for the Turkish military, they were in a position to solve the Cyprus Problem in July 1974 without the need to "conquer" 37% of the island. If you care to read the details of the negotiations between the first and second part of the invasion you will see that whatever concessions were made to Turkey that country was determined to occupy a large part of Cyprus. I do wish you would stop telling me to get my facts straight, its both childish and tedious.

Jerry, I "admire" your stamina but also naivety to be continuously trying to make sense with a fanaticized “propaganda machine,” through the employment of logical arguments!

What a waste of time!

[MR-from-NG]

Pyrpolizer wrote

I am not answering YES nor NO because not only the question is hypothetical, but has zero chances to ever become an option.

Yes I agree, 18%-82% is not an option. I would guess a more realistic figure of 32%-68%. That is fair and square.

[Murataga]

Murataga you seem to be a bit short in the history department. You say that Takism was a defensive response to ENOSIS, can't you accept that ENOSIS was a defensive response to oppression as perceived by Greek Cypriots..... We go round in circles.

ENOSIS was the effort to annex Cyprus to Greece, and it violated all the rights of the TCs. As a natural consequence, the TCs refused and resisted, and in return they were severly attacked. Plain and simple. You can go around in circles as much as you like but the facts stand constant and unchallenged.

You have live in a state that was illegaly created by force that will never be accepted, as presently constituted, by the civilised world.

The State I live in grew out from enclaves the GCs chased us into for refusing to become subjects of Greece. It enlarged mainly as a function of our security concerns and political and economic strangulation for refusing ENOSIS. Certain undesirable conditions exist beacuse the State and our political representation in it has been stolen from us and is under invasion. What has been usurped has been used agaist us to make us suffer even more. Despite these, today we are recognized by the Republic of Turkey which is an EU candidate and one of the major powerhouses of this part of the world. We are a people of 300000 in alliance with Turkey and have a 10000$ GDP (which is above Romania and Bulgaria that just made the EU). We will improve even more when the GC leadership returns/compensates to us what they have stolen/usurped of the State that belongs to us and all the rights/privelages that go along with it.

If you care to read the details of the negotiations between the first and second part of the invasion you will see that whatever concessions were made to Turkey that country was determined to occupy a large part of Cyprus.

I have read it and listened about it many times. I am glad that neither than nor today no concessions will be made to jeapordize the security and rights of the TCs in Cyprus.

I do wish you would stop telling me to get my facts straight, its both childish and tedious.

I am sorry to have gotten you angry but I stand by my principles which is to make sure that any perversion is clearly pointed and exposed. As long as you have errors in your arguements I will continue to underline them. So again: get your facts straight.

[Piratis]

Bullshit Piratis, It seems last night you slept without your underwear, that make you wake up with the idea to offer the Turkish Cypriots 18% of the land and keep the 82% for your self. Congratulations Bravo You might as well offer the British some percentage from that 18% perhaps then only the Turkish Cypriots will accept your idea.
Piratis listen carefully, today the Turkish Cypriots control 40% and there is no way that any percentage will be given to the Greek Cypriots . If a situation has been created due to war the only way to change it is by war. Can you afford that? Instead of wasting your time writing bullshit think of ways that the Turkish Cypriot administration will allow residents of Ammohoustos to return back, and to be clear for that to happen you have to accept that the Turkish Cypriots are socially, economically, politically equal partners of the republic. Unless you realize this reality nothing will change till hell freezes.

till hell freezes? You are too confident.

I made this "poll" in order to see if there was a possibility for a peaceful arrangement. I guess the answer is " If a situation has been created due to war the only way to change it is by war" and thats a good enough conclusion. I just wanted to be sure we didn't exhaust all possibilities for a peaceful solution.

So have fun to continue being the biggest losers of all, and when you will lose everything you can blame it only on your greediness.

[Murataga]

Bullshit Piratis, It seems last night you slept without your underwear, that make you wake up with the idea to offer the Turkish Cypriots 18% of the land and keep the 82% for your self. Congratulations Bravo You might as well offer the British some percentage from that 18% perhaps then only the Turkish Cypriots will accept your idea.
Piratis listen carefully, today the Turkish Cypriots control 40% and there is no way that any percentage will be given to the Greek Cypriots . If a situation has been created due to war the only way to change it is by war. Can you afford that? Instead of wasting your time writing bullshit think of ways that the Turkish Cypriot administration will allow residents of Ammohoustos to return back, and to be clear for that to happen you have to accept that the Turkish Cypriots are socially, economically, politically equal partners of the republic. Unless you realize this reality nothing will change till hell freezes.

till hell freezes? You are too confident.

I made this "poll" in order to see if there was a possibility for a peaceful arrangement. I guess the answer is " If a situation has been created due to war the only way to change it is by war" and thats a good enough conclusion. I just wanted to be sure we didn't exhaust all possibilities for a peaceful solution.

So have fun to continue being the biggest losers of all, and when you will lose everything you can blame it only on your greediness.

All that we have lost is what you have stolen.