Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Good post totally agree, we said without hinderence our prospects would be excellent.

And what is that prediction based on VP? Micro/Macro economics studies or wishful thinking?

Go study the economies of countires like San Marino and Andora with no coast line then you will see how small states can survive and prosper. This is of course goes against what you want for TCs as you are so used to ensuring we are at a disadvantage by isolation and embargoes but what Piratis put forward is recognition for return of land which I agree to, a clean break you go your way and I go mine, what happens after that is none of your business.

[Viewpoint]

I have already stated I would vote yes but I would like to raise one point can anyone put forward a country that was divided in realtion to its population distribution I would be very interested to examine that example, any suggestions Piratis?

No examples. Since the UN were created and international law no country was split by means of ethnically cleansing the majority from a place to make space for some others to have their country there. So there are no such examples.

Come on Piratis even you cant believe this just look at the Yugoslavian example...the Bosnian issue, Serbia Montenegro example plenty of them around when you want to see them. The population % has never determined the land distribution but I would still agree on 18% to bring this problem to a final close once and for all.

[DT.]

I have already stated I would vote yes but I would like to raise one point can anyone put forward a country that was divided in realtion to its population distribution I would be very interested to examine that example, any suggestions Piratis?

No examples. Since the UN were created and international law no country was split by means of ethnically cleansing the majority from a place to make space for some others to have their country there. So there are no such examples.

Come on Piratis even you cant believe this just look at the Yugoslavian example...the Bosnian issue, Serbia Montenegro example plenty of them around when you want to see them. The population % has never determined the land distribution but I would still agree on 18% to bring this problem to a final close once and for all.

thats exactly right VP they were based on centuries of these people living in those lands. WOuld you like us to distribute it like that. I figure you'd get 2 streets per city.

[Jerry]

Like many Cypriots I would like to see the island unified but I fear this will not happen, principally because of the desire from the mainland to have an military base in Cyprus. An 18-82 split would mean the north becomes a mainland Turkish state no matter what the inhabitants want. In such a situation, over a period of time, manyTCs would migrate south as EU rules permit and the 18-82 split would be meaningless unless permament derogations were made. That said, I believe that partition in some form is inevitable.

I have recently tried to make enquiries to the "Immovable Property Commission" via the:-

London Office of the Representative, Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Address: 29 Bedford Square WCI London
Telephone: 00-44-171-6311920
Fax: 00-44-171-6311948

I am not exactly inspired by the above extract (spot the undeliberate mistake) to pursue a claim and quite frankly I find it difficult to believe that those responsible for this error are capable of running a bath let alone 18% of Cyprus!

[Rain]

Bullshit Piratis, It seems last night you slept without your underwear, that make you wake up with the idea to offer the Turkish Cypriots 18% of the land and keep the 82% for your self. Congratulations Bravo You might as well offer the British some percentage from that 18% perhaps then only the Turkish Cypriots will accept your idea.
Piratis listen carefully, today the Turkish Cypriots control 40% and there is no way that any percentage will be given to the Greek Cypriots . If a situation has been created due to war the only way to change it is by war. Can you afford that? Instead of wasting your time writing bullshit think of ways that the Turkish Cypriot administration will allow residents of Ammohoustos to return back, and to be clear for that to happen you have to accept that the Turkish Cypriots are socially, economically, politically equal partners of the republic. Unless you realize this reality nothing will change till hell freezes.

[Jerry]

Rain, your "Might is Right" attitude has serious flaws. First of all the TCs do not control 40% of the island - Turkey does. In addition Turkey will never enter the EU or be accepted by European states as a civilised country until there is an agreed solution in Cyprus. Finally no state in the north of Cyprus will ever be recognised internationally until there is a solution, the "TRNC" wil remain isolated.
To quote you:- "Unless you realize this reality nothing will change till hell freezes"

[Murataga]

Jerry wrote-

Like many Cypriots I would like to see the island unified but I fear this will not happen, principally because of the desire from the mainland to have an military base in Cyprus.

Get your facts straight: The island is partitioned beacuse the TCs were ousted from the government and shoved into enclaves that made a negligible part of the land principally as they refused the annexation of Cyprus to Greece. This percentage grew mainly as a function of our security concerns and political and economic strangulation. Unification can not mean a Hellenic Cyprus, period. As long as we are forced to live in a Hellenic Republic under the disguise of "unification" these conditions will sustain (as long as it is necessary). Very very important that you realize: This kind of unification is refused principally by us, the TCs, not anyone else. We the TCs are the ones that resisted your lunatic crusade 44 years ago and we the TCs that are the ones refusing it today, PRINCIPALLY. The Turkish Army makes up for the military power that we can not on our own. So again: get your facts straight.

In such a situation, over a period of time, manyTCs would migrate south as EU rules permit and the 18-82 split would be meaningless unless permament derogations were made.

I don`t know and frankly don`t care about this b.s. 18-82% plan. But there is a fact that you can not overlook. The doors have been open for 4 years now. The number of people that have migrated to the South are almost zero. There are approximately 3000-4000 people going to work on a daily basis, and that is because you have stolen from us employment, property, representation and used all of it against us for an ambargo that is making the job market in the North less appealing to what you might have in the South under certain conditions. As soon as that ambargo is lifted the tide is going to shift, and anyone who can spell "international relations" knows this.

[Rain]

Jerry ,
The term that the North is controlled by Turkey or the Turkish Cypriots is does not change anything other then that no Greek Cypriot administrator has any jurisdiction on the 40% of the land that you can call it what ever you like. Today on that 40% of land live the Turkish Cypriots if you still not aware.
Turkey joining the EU or not you better find out the amount of business interests that the EU has with Turkey a 74 million market that makes 1/3 of the EU population . On the other hand I will like to give you one more information that I sure you are not aware, Turkey is one of the few countries in the world that is self sufficient and does not need the EU , on the contrary EU needs Turkey. So Jerry you see EU is not a factor in the Cyprus issue.
Never mind if TRNC is not recognized officially by any other country other than Turkey, that is not a big deal one day they WILL.
reference to your Quote regarding that only civillized countries are in the EU, well old boy Turkey is more civillized the most countries in the EU. Advise you to have a visit to Turkey and widness your self other than reading books written by imperialist powers.

[Jerry]

Murataga, you are obviously not aware of the attitude of the Turkish military towards the importance of Cyprus as a base. Would you like me to dig out a few quotes for you? Turkey used the CIA/US inspired Junta's coup in 1974 as an excuse to invade and keep part of Cyprus, it had little to do with your "plight". The Turkish Cypriot leadership was prepared to sacrifce its own people in order to partition the island, they were as much to blame for the trouble in the early 60s as the GCs and as a minority they were seen to be the victims, indeed it was essential they became victims in order to get help from Turkey. Turkish Cypriots like you will never accept your part in the Cyprus Problem, you run around like old women shouting "we are the victims" when you know damn well that Denktash and his nationalist thugs were as much to blame as the GCs. Did you ever stop and ask yourself why there was so much anti Turkish feeling in the middle of the last century? I don't mean the Ottomans, more recently in the 50s Greeks and Greek Cypriots were victim to Turkish brutality and within the living memory of some of those victims hundreds of thousands of Greeks were brutalised by the Turkish army. Did you really expect the 1960 Constitution to work when elements on both sides felt they had been cheated? Did you honestly think that after centuries of oppression 80% of the population of Cyprus would want to share power equally with their oppressors?

With regard to getting facts straight, you are confusing facts with your opinions and propaganda.

[Jerry]

Rain, I don't intend to reply to your post in detail, I can see no point in talking to either a small child or an escapee from a lunatic asylum.