Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Great post Murat

[boulio]

U.N. Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-
"Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession"


can you please post a link with the above statement.

[Murataga]

U.N. Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-
"Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession"


can you please post a link with the above statement.

http://www.un.int/cyprus/resolut.htm

[boulio]

Thanks

[Murataga]

Thanks

You are more than welcome.

[boulio]

see the problem murat is you keep quoting security council resolutions however if you take a look at the link you provided me and start in 1964 thru 2006 with the SC RESOULTIONS YOU WILL SEE THAT YOUR SIDE and when i mean your side i mean Turkeys,not the average t/c never has implemented any of them,from withdrawing troops,to de-mining to to returning to strovali to the status quo,so why in one hand do turks vehemtly argue that a agreement needs to be under the UN and in the same breath refuse to implement already passed security council resolutions?

[Murataga]

see the problem murat is you keep quoting security council resolutions however if you take a look at the link you provided me and start in 1964 thru 2006 with the SC RESOULTIONS YOU WILL SEE THAT YOUR SIDE and when i mean your side i mean Turkeys,not the average t/c never has implemented any of them,from withdrawing troops,to de-mining to to returning to strovali to the status quo,so why in one hand do turks vehemtly argue that a agreement needs to be under the UN and in the same breath refuse to implement already passed security council resolutions?

You are repeating exactly what I have mentioned in my previous post to be irrelevant to this discussion. But for the sake of your benefit in the debate let`s say that we disassemble the TRNC right this minute and all Turkish troops withdraw; now will you:

Please explicitly state whether or not you accept that in the solution of the Cyprus Problem according to the U.N. principles in an RoC: GCs are nothing more than ONE of the TWO communities that have politically equal status to their TC partners in their seperate zone in a federated state called RoC.

[Murataga]

Please read my post carefully.

After reading some of the comments written in lieu of the exchange of the posts with myself and Piratis it seems necessary that a few points have to be clarified. The Resolution and the argument that I brought on for discussion is not about the illegality of the RoC. The RoC is illegal not because of the Resolution I pointed to, but for many other reasons, of which one has been fabulously pointed out by Zan in his post recently, and is the subject of another discussion. That is a debate completely different from the one I brought about which unfortunately Piratis tried to pull the conversation towards. My point is something else and perhaps it is necessary that I elaborate on it a bit…

My point is that the GCs wil nevr accept a solution to the Cyprus Problem withing the lagal framework of the U.N. since the U.N. foresees a solution that they become a community in the RoC after a settlement. The U.N. although recognizing the current illegitimate form of the RoC, clearly points that there is a problem with Cyprus involving the RoC. Furthermore, it has been, annually, declaring that the Cyprus Problem should be settled, acknowledging that there is a problem, through a solution where the RoC becomes a State comprised of TWO communities of GCs and the TCs where each of the two hold equal political status in separate zones. This Resolution is:

U.N. Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-
"Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession"

The standing fact is that there is a problem in Cyprus and the world points to the solution of this problem as RoC becoming a federated state with TWO communities in separate zones with equal political status. Now here is the core of the matter: the U.N. (along with the rest of the world) has trapped itself and locked any foreseeable solution within this framework they have given something to ONE of the communities that doesn`t belong to them in the first place and now they want it back and call this the solution of the Cyprus Problem. Where the U.N. has trapped itself is that it gave ONE of the communities, the GC community, the right to become the RoC thus granting them the status of being a nation within the RoC and synthetically elevating their status from being ONE of the TWO communities as she is foreseen in a solution of the problem. The GC community has believed, acted and educated its youth that they are a nation of the RoC and they have been treated as a nation of the RoC. Now the U.N. is pointing to a solution of the Cyprus Problem where the community recognized/treated as the RoC nation, reduce her status to a community of the RoC. Here in lies the greatest dilemma of paramount importance; and again, I am not discussing the events and developments that lead to this; just stating the situation. The U.N. first gives them the right to be the owner of the RoC, makes them a nation of the RoC, treats them as the nation of the RoC, and than points out that there is a problem in the RoC and that it is to be solved by this nation becoming a community. Even more paradoxically, although acknowledging that in the solution pointed to the Cyprus Problem the GCs are to be reduced from the nation of the RoC to a community in the RoC, the U.N. puts a prerequisite that it should be asked if the GCs would accept giving up being the nation of the RoC and becoming a community of the RoC. Guess what the GCs answered to no one’s surprise? A great big OXI! Hence, Papadopoulos`s famous and frequently quoted words regarding the answer:

“I have received a state (nation), I will not deliver a community”.

Call it the Annan Plan, Zimbabwe Plan, the Makarios Plan or whatever you like… Although the U.N.`s solution to settling the Cyprus Problem is by converting the current, illegitimate as far as universal principles are concerned but legal according to the EU and the UN, RoC in to a federated state with TWO politically equivalent communities in their separate zones, this solution will never ever be accepted by the GCs, ever. Because it is asking ONE of those (to become in the settlement) communities whether she will give up her extremely privileged status as a nation and become a community in the RoC. Who would say “Ne!” especially when they hold the tools with them to refuse this: an RoC already recognized by the world where they are the nation that gets to decide solely on their own on how that RoC is going to be navigated. Why become a community when you are the nation in the RoC? Why share policy/decision making of the RoC with another? Why give up living under a government of GCs to a one shared with another? And especially if that “another” is the long-time perceived “Satan” for which the RoC “nation” still carries with herself a heavy bag load of resentment?

That is why I kept asking the simple question that requires the simple answer of yes or no.

Please explicitly state whether or not you accept that in the solution of the Cyprus Problem according to the U.N. principles in an RoC: GCs are nothing more than ONE of the TWO communities that have politically equal status to their TC partners in their seperate zone in a federated state called RoC.

After writing:

U.N. Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-
"Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession"

The obvious answer is of course "OXI" for the GC side. Because they see themselves as the nation of the RoC, they have educated and made themselves believe they are the nation of RoC, and they have been treated as the nation of the RoC. However, an "OXI" also means they do not accept the solution of the U.N.`s legal framework and refusing U.N. contradicts their basis of supporting other Resolutions they have managed to pass as the RoC nation to strangulate the other community. So guess what the answer was: a great big NOTHING with complimentary cussing and swearing on the side and perversion as appetizer. Enjoy the show

[Piratis]

Murataga, the Republic of Cyprus is a perfectly legal state and only the Turks deny it. (just like the deny the Armenian genocide, the oppression of the Kurds and everything else that doesn't suit them).

For anything else to become legal we have to approve it. And if we don't like it we can reject it, just like we did with the Annan plan.

So your realistic options are:
1) Remain a pseudo state until we will liberate our land with war (as we have every right to do so)
2) Bring to us a solution that we can accept.
3) Return to RoC

We can do the above without violating a single law, while at the same time you continue your gross violations of international law and face the consequences.

So if you thought you found some kind of legal loophole that would allow you to get away with our ethnic cleansing, think again because we will never allow you to steal part of our country.

[boulio]

I think the G/c SIDE from the 1977-78 high level meeting beetween Makarios and Dektash had already agreed to a bi zonal bi communal federation so it is mute to argue otherwise,HOWEVER what bicommunal and bizonal mean and how you interpert them is something different.