Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

I think it is. Cleansing of the ranks is good for society too. The far right should easily be identifiable (so that it can be avoided) and of course exposed to the public, rather than contaminating the policies of parties in which the far right moles are stationed. Having said this, one needs to clarify that the dividing line between left and right is not so obvious at the moment. I think the stance of Anastasiades on the Cyprus issue is a very progressive one while the stance of AKEL and especially of socialist EDEK smacks of conservatism and nationalism.

Ok Piratis, Sampson has not left, but tell us about his ideas on the solution and the A plan. Tell us about how much you two agree on this issue. Karras and a few others that still remain in DISI made public their objection to the solution (Ouranios too). Yet, as I said above, the stance on the A plan, probably identifies quite well who is who.

[Piratis]

Extrapolating this fact, I could say that all politicians are involved in what you rightly termed 'stealing of votes'.

I agree, but Cleredes was the worst in this so far.

Vassiliou as far as I remember didn't give so many fake promises at least. Actually I had voted for Vassiliou and his party in their early stages. Judging him now I can say that he was a great president overall in most matters, but in the Cyprus problem he screwed up with the "good boy" tactics. To say the truth I supported Vassiliou approach to the Cy prob at that time, but now I realized that the TCs would settle for nothing less than a disguised partition, so all those compromises went wasted.

[Bananiot]

Papadopoulos asked us to reject the A plan and promised a better, european solution instead. Did he steal your vote, Piratis?

[Saint Jimmy]

Yet, as I said above, the stance on the A plan, probably identifies quite well who is who.

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering... We tag people as far-right or progressive, according to their position on the Cyprus issue. How right is that?

[insan]

I agree, but Cleredes was the worst in this so far.

Vassiliou as far as I remember didn't give so many fake promises at least. Actually I had voted for Vassiliou and his party in their early stages. Judging him now I can say that he was a great president overall in most matters, but in the Cyprus problem he screwed up with the "good boy" tactics. To say the truth I supported Vassiliou approach to the Cy prob at that time, but now I realized that the TCs would settle for nothing less than a disguised partition, so all those compromises went wasted.

Piratis,

It seems to me that Vasilou's perspective and approach upon Cyprus problem and international relations were completely gloablistic unlike Tassos' narrow local view point upon Cyprus problem and international relations.

Tassos local and narrow view point upon those issues have so much in common with the local, narrow view point of vast majority of GCs. I think this is the main reason why Vasiliou failed to explain his policies to vast majority of Cypriots, regarding the Cyprus problem and international relations of Cyprus. And this is the main reason of why Tassos has become the most popular man among GC community.

[Piratis]

Papadopoulos asked us to reject the A plan and promised a better, european solution instead. Did he steal your vote, Piratis?

I don't think Papadopoulos promised anything specific. Actually even today we could achieve something a bit better than Annan 5, even if that somehing is far from satisfactory.

Personally in the referendum I voted "no" because I decided to vote "no" and not because Papadopoulos said so. The opinion of Papadopoulos is unrelated with my vote.

In the presidential elections Papadopulos said he would not just accept the A plan as it is or without the changes that would satisfy the majority. I believe he did what he said, so I don't think anybody should feel that their vote was stolen.

It seems to me that Vasilou's perspective and approach upon Cyprus problem and international relations were completely gloablistic unlike Tassos' narrow local view point upon Cyprus problem and international relations.

Well, thats what I thought too, and thats why I voted for Vassiliou at that time ( I was one of that 3.5% or so his party got).
But now we have the results of Vassiliou - Cleredes policies. When the results talk for themselves we don't need any theories about "global" VS "narrow" approach.

Vassiliou was very popular too once. He got elected mainly just by the support of AKEL, and the second time he got 44% in the first round. If Papadopoulos party didn't go with DESY in those elections Vassiliou would be a president again instead of Cleredes. The reason Vassiliou is not popular anymore is that his policies in the Cyprus problem have proven wrong. (although everybody admits that in economics he was the best so far)

[-mikkie2-]

I don't doubt the sincerity of Papadopoulos regarding a solution. I think he made a mistake in accepting the process agreed in New York because it would (as it did) mean that the end result would have been written by others and in this case he who shouted loudest (Turkey) got what they wanted. I don't blame him for this because one day he was elected president and the next day he had to make the most important decisions of his life - there was no honeymoon period for him. He was in at the deep end.

Papadopoulos was correct in protecting the integrity of the RoC. Once in the EU he knew it would be guaranteed. And so it has proven so far regardless of what some of our 'friends' in the EU have been trying to do.

We need to be in a strong negotiating position against Turkey. The only way of achieving that was EU membership - this has been the long term strategy and goal. Voting yes to the Annan plan would have scuppered all the years of effort to gain EU entry.

Now things are very different. We are in the EU and we have a real say in how Turkey progresses from here on. What matters now is to carefully formulate what it is we want to achieve with a solution and to make sure we negotiate properly and with a clear vision. That I think is the most important thing. To all those that said that Annan Plan 5 was the last chance are WRONG!

From now on we need to support Papadopoulos to find a solution that we can all be happy with. He needs to be given the chance to prove that he means what he says. If he achieves something better than Annan 5, not just for GC's but for TC's as well, he will become a hero. What would all his doubters say then?

[Piratis]

I don't doubt the sincerity of Papadopoulos regarding a solution. I think he made a mistake in accepting the process agreed in New York because it would (as it did) mean that the end result would have been written by others and in this case he who shouted loudest (Turkey) got what they wanted.

I mostly agree with this. When the results are shown we should all be ready to admit our mistakes. Papadopoulos should admit that this was a mistake, and I believe he understood it and he will not make the same mistake again (unlike some others that they insist on repeating their policies that have proven wrong).

Where I disagree is that Turkey got what she wanted because she shouted loudest. Turkey got what she wanted because the balance of power favors her.

[Nickp]

I think Erodgan, Gul, Dentash, Papadopoulous, Karamalis, and who ever esle should meet in a cafe bar in Nicosia for a Backgammon competition.

Winner takes all of Cyprus. There, problem solved through non violence.

[Bananiot]

Piratis, why do you keep telling us your personal electoral and party affiliations? They are of no significance (just as mine aren't) and what is important is what the general public believes. There is no doubt the majority of voters took heed of Papadopoulos's promise of a better, european solution, in order to reject the proposed solution by the SG. Now, we find ourselves asking for some changes to the plan, that will not alter its philosophy, in order to accept it. Where is the european solution?

I suppose you have heard last night the surprise statement made by Anan. Tell us what changes you want, he said to our government, and I will take it from there. As usual, Papadopoulos was quite unprepared for this and after uttering some sorry excuses he was quoted as saying that our views were comprehensively explained to Anan last year.

Someone bent on a solution would have jumped to this opening. Does he really want a solution? He cannot convince us, let alone those that matter internationally and can help us find a solution.