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Turkey's self-inflicted wounds

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Re: Turkey's self-inflicted wounds

Postby Kifeas » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:49 pm

Turkey's self-inflicted wounds

As the debate over Turkey's EU membership looks set to intensify, it would be in Turkey's best interest to come to terms with its Ottoman past and rethink its sentiments of cultural exclusivity.

..............
Ankara's problem is not that Turkey is almost exclusively Muslim while most of the EU-member states are predominantly Christian. The problem is much larger.

The EU is based on the premise that member states are culturally diverse and that the rights of various ethnic and cultural groups are respected and guaranteed, both in law and in practice. The national identity of these countries is not exclusive but allows various religious as well as ethnic groups to maintain their individual space.

Turkey on the contrary, still clings on the notion that it is an exclusively Turkish nation, and it is not ready to accept and recognize the non-Turkish component of its population. Nor is it ready to come to terms with its historic treatment of the non-Turkish populations in the area.

The preamble of the Turkish Constitution talks of "the eternal existence of the Turkish nation and motherland." The expression "Turkish nation" appears frequently in the Constitution. Ever since Kemal Ataturk founded the republic in 1923, this "Turkification" has been its hallmark. This exclusive Turkish identity does not reflect the cultural aspirations of the Kurds who constitute about one-sixth of the population.

Since the days of Ataturk, Kurds were banned from using their native language, proscribed from giving Kurdish names to their children and denied any space or tolerance for their culture. The limited concessions towards the Kurds in recent years were primarily the result of repeated pressure from the EU. But Turkey is still long way from coming up with an identity that is not exclusively Turkish.
.................

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=17773


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Even in India, where the author of this article comes from, they have discovered was a full of complexes perverted nationalists those kemalist Turks are!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Exactly the same shit they have tried to stuff us GCs with, when they tried to sell us the Annan plan and its TCCS constitution!

Vagabond Kemal-lover Kofi Annan had taken and copied the mainland fascist Turkish constitution and then pasted it into his plan for the "TCCS," in order to sell the 30% of Cyprus to Turkey in the expense of the 250,000 indigenous GCs that were ethnically cleansed from the north, so that he completes and permanently consolidates the fait accompli of the 1974 Turkish invasion. He even had the audacity to lie to us that his monstrosity was a UN plan in compliance with the UN resolutions, and he had the audacity to blame the GCs for having trashed his Trojan horse!

And the other vagabond, Verheugen, had the even greater audacity to first try to cheat on the GCs to accept Annan’s monstrosity, and then when he did not succeed with his tricks he went to the EP and blamed the GCs for having cheated him!

Is it a coincidence that hours after Verheugen made his infamous speech in the EP, Turkey had signed the ordering of 500 Leopard tanks from Verheugen's country, Germany? Verheugen, before explaining to us how you were cheated by Papadopoulos, please tell us how much commission have you made from the above deal, for promoting Turkey's illegitimate and immoral claims to Partition and turn into a Turkish province the 30% of our country, through your friend's monstrosity plan!
Last edited by Kifeas on Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:05 pm

Actually I don't blame them Kifeas. I blame our foolish leadership who was always playing games and showing off as the nice guys by accepting one catastrophic plan after another. The Anan Plan could never lead to anything even torelable for us on the first place.
In addition our leadership proved so idiotic that they trusted our fate on the goodwill of those 3 people. Knowing damn well that 3 people can always be bought very easily.
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Re: Turkey's self-inflicted wounds

Postby zan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:13 pm

Kifeas wrote:
Turkey's self-inflicted wounds

As the debate over Turkey's EU membership looks set to intensify, it would be in Turkey's best interest to come to terms with its Ottoman past and rethink its sentiments of cultural exclusivity.

..............
Ankara's problem is not that Turkey is almost exclusively Muslim while most of the EU-member states are predominantly Christian. The problem is much larger.

The EU is based on the premise that member states are culturally diverse and that the rights of various ethnic and cultural groups are respected and guaranteed, both in law and in practice. The national identity of these countries is not exclusive but allows various religious as well as ethnic groups to maintain their individual space.

Turkey on the contrary, still clings on the notion that it is an exclusively Turkish nation, and it is not ready to accept and recognize the non-Turkish component of its population. Nor is it ready to come to terms with its historic treatment of the non-Turkish populations in the area.

The preamble of the Turkish Constitution talks of "the eternal existence of the Turkish nation and motherland." The expression "Turkish nation" appears frequently in the Constitution. Ever since Kemal Ataturk founded the republic in 1923, this "Turkification" has been its hallmark. This exclusive Turkish identity does not reflect the cultural aspirations of the Kurds who constitute about one-sixth of the population.

Since the days of Ataturk, Kurds were banned from using their native language, proscribed from giving Kurdish names to their children and denied any space or tolerance for their culture. The limited concessions towards the Kurds in recent years were primarily the result of repeated pressure from the EU. But Turkey is still long way from coming up with an identity that is not exclusively Turkish.
.................

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=17773


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Even in India, where the author of this article comes from, they have discovered was a full of complexes perverted nationalists those kemalist Turks are!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Exactly the same shit they have tried to stuff us GCs with, when they tried to sell us the Annan plan and its TCCS constitution!

Vagabond Kemal-lover Kofi Annan had taken and copied the mainland fascist Turkish constitution and then pasted it into his plan for the "TCCS," in order to sell the 30% of Cyprus to Turkey in the expense of the 250,000 indigenous GCs that were ethnically cleansed from the north, so that he completes and permanently consolidates the fait accompli of the 1974 Turkish invasion. He even had the audacity to lie to us that his monstrosity was a UN plan in compliance with the UN resolutions, and he had the audacity to blame the GCs for having trashed his Trojan horse!

And the other vagabond, Verheugen, had the even greater audacity to first try to cheat on the GCs to accept Annan’s monstrosity, and then when he did not succeed with his tricks he went to the EP and blamed the GCs for having cheated him!

Is it a coincidence that hours after Verheugen made his infamous speech in the EP, Turkey had signed the ordering of 500 Leopard tanks from Verheugen's country, Germany? Verheugen, before explaining to us how you were cheated by Papadopoulos, please tell us how much commission have you made from the above deal, for promoting Turkey's illegitimate and immoral claims to Partition and turn into a Turkish province the 30% of our country, through your friend's monstrosity plan!



Resisting the Helenism you preach has made us tougher than you think.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:02 am

miltiades wrote:My dear Bir , you do not need me to say that living next to you would be just as normal as living next to my brother. I'm certain that you also share my sentiments and would have no hesitation in living next to me. It seems to me that the overwhelming majority of Cypriots share our views but unfortunately there no political leaders that would lead us to the promised land. We are living proof that two Cypriots who have never met or even spoken on the phone can so genuinely interact with each other in a cordial and civilized manner. We do not agree on many things I' m certain of that , but we respect each others views and would defend each others right to hold these views. We both agree that the majority of our people are peace loving , hard working family folks who became the victims of the fanatics amongst us , the fanatics who are intransigent and full oh hate and we have a few examples on this forum.


We don't have to agree on everthing,as you say dear miltiades,to be able to live peacefully together...All we need is the appreciation that differences enrich our lives,the knowledge that noone has the monopoly on the truth,or the meaning of life...the acceptance that we are all human beings first,with the same needs and desires of the mind and the body and the soul...And then the courage and the intelligence to see where your real interests lie,and who is taking you for a ride in the jungles of nationalism,chauvinism and fanatisicm....But some people are more than blind to the life of logic and sensitivity,they are dead to it unfortunately...And this allows others to lead them by the nose into fear and prejudice,and away from empathy and compassion... :( :(
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Postby zan » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:15 am

Birkibrisli wrote:
miltiades wrote:My dear Bir , you do not need me to say that living next to you would be just as normal as living next to my brother. I'm certain that you also share my sentiments and would have no hesitation in living next to me. It seems to me that the overwhelming majority of Cypriots share our views but unfortunately there no political leaders that would lead us to the promised land. We are living proof that two Cypriots who have never met or even spoken on the phone can so genuinely interact with each other in a cordial and civilized manner. We do not agree on many things I' m certain of that , but we respect each others views and would defend each others right to hold these views. We both agree that the majority of our people are peace loving , hard working family folks who became the victims of the fanatics amongst us , the fanatics who are intransigent and full oh hate and we have a few examples on this forum.


We don't have to agree on everthing,as you say dear miltiades,to be able to live peacefully together...All we need is the appreciation that differences enrich our lives,the knowledge that noone has the monopoly on the truth,or the meaning of life...the acceptance that we are all human beings first,with the same needs and desires of the mind and the body and the soul...And then the courage and the intelligence to see where your real interests lie,and who is taking you for a ride in the jungles of nationalism,chauvinism and fanatisicmSays the nationalist Cypriot....But some people are more than blind to the life of logic and sensitivity,they are dead to it unfortunately...And this allows others to lead them by the nose into fear and prejudice,and away from empathy and compassion... :( :(


3/10

Full of contradictions and lacking empathy.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:59 am

zan wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:
miltiades wrote:My dear Bir , you do not need me to say that living next to you would be just as normal as living next to my brother. I'm certain that you also share my sentiments and would have no hesitation in living next to me. It seems to me that the overwhelming majority of Cypriots share our views but unfortunately there no political leaders that would lead us to the promised land. We are living proof that two Cypriots who have never met or even spoken on the phone can so genuinely interact with each other in a cordial and civilized manner. We do not agree on many things I' m certain of that , but we respect each others views and would defend each others right to hold these views. We both agree that the majority of our people are peace loving , hard working family folks who became the victims of the fanatics amongst us , the fanatics who are intransigent and full oh hate and we have a few examples on this forum.


We don't have to agree on everthing,as you say dear miltiades,to be able to live peacefully together...All we need is the appreciation that differences enrich our lives,the knowledge that noone has the monopoly on the truth,or the meaning of life...the acceptance that we are all human beings first,with the same needs and desires of the mind and the body and the soul...And then the courage and the intelligence to see where your real interests lie,and who is taking you for a ride in the jungles of nationalism,chauvinism and fanatisicmSays the nationalist Cypriot....But some people are more than blind to the life of logic and sensitivity,they are dead to it unfortunately...And this allows others to lead them by the nose into fear and prejudice,and away from empathy and compassion... :( :(


3/10

Full of contradictions and lacking empathy.


oh no....there is no contraditions in my thinking,Zan...I have been arguing the same points since I have joined this forum nearly 2 years ago...Unlike some people, who shall remain unnamed,who started out as a progressive thinker and ended up a fanatical nationalist and partitionist...
Don't talk to me about contradictions....People in glass houses... :wink: :roll:
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Postby Murataga » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:31 pm

Bir wrote-
oh no....there is no contraditions in my thinking,Zan...I have been arguing the same points since I have joined this forum nearly 2 years ago...


Two posts made in the past without further comment:

(1)
I have said in the past that I think there is a very good case to bring a charge of treason against Tpapa for his role in undermining the Republic of Cyprus Constitution in 1963/64...He was a minister at the time sworn to upheld the Cyprus Constitution,and he was actively working to abolish it behind scenes...That is treason in anybody's language...


(2)
…but I know what I would say if I were Talat,"Mr president,I have just abolished the trnc,can I come and become your vice president in the long ago agreed Republic of Cyprus???"


I`ll let the people be the judge 8)
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Postby zan » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:43 pm

Murataga wrote:Bir wrote-
oh no....there is no contraditions in my thinking,Zan...I have been arguing the same points since I have joined this forum nearly 2 years ago...


Two posts made in the past without further comment:

(1)
I have said in the past that I think there is a very good case to bring a charge of treason against Tpapa for his role in undermining the Republic of Cyprus Constitution in 1963/64...He was a minister at the time sworn to upheld the Cyprus Constitution,and he was actively working to abolish it behind scenes...That is treason in anybody's language...


(2)
…but I know what I would say if I were Talat,"Mr president,I have just abolished the trnc,can I come and become your vice president in the long ago agreed Republic of Cyprus???"


I`ll let the people be the judge 8)



Don't have nightmares Bir, the wind whistling through the broken windows of your glasshouse must be like a hurricane.

I feel I have to return the compliment as well. As a person that started out life in the middle ground and I have to say a bit of a hero of mine for that reason, you have moved so far left that a new chapter has to be opened to describe your position. You and Humanist with his racist statement that I cannot be bothered to find. A man that I defended as he was being attacked for being gay. He then repays the time and effort with a sweeping statement of racist that only the worst type of bigot can hold. You two have disappointed me the most.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:55 pm

Don't worry Zan, I will always be here to encourage you. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:






La mort au pseudo. :P :P :P :P :P
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Postby BirKibrisli » Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:32 am

Murataga wrote:Bir wrote-
oh no....there is no contraditions in my thinking,Zan...I have been arguing the same points since I have joined this forum nearly 2 years ago...


Two posts made in the past without further comment:

(1)
I have said in the past that I think there is a very good case to bring a charge of treason against Tpapa for his role in undermining the Republic of Cyprus Constitution in 1963/64...He was a minister at the time sworn to upheld the Cyprus Constitution,and he was actively working to abolish it behind scenes...That is treason in anybody's language...


(2)
…but I know what I would say if I were Talat,"Mr president,I have just abolished the trnc,can I come and become your vice president in the long ago agreed Republic of Cyprus???"


I`ll let the people be the judge 8)


But where is the contradiction,Murataga????
I've always stood by my first statment,and I still do...
But since noone is rushing to bring charges of treason against Tpapa (I perhaps understand why the GCs won't ,but what about the TCs?????),and since he is the officially recognised legitimate President of RoC,I will call him Mr President...I am much more a realist than what some people like to give me credit for....
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