Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

We are still around but all we appear to do is go around in circles which get very boring, the chasm is tooooo wide and the status quo is set to last for a long time to come. Your arguements and dry and repetativeleading nowhere. As long as the GCs continue to elect an administration with no intention of resolving squat then the stale mate will remain. The GCs have what they want a pure GC state run by GCs, all they have to do is keep the wool pulled firmly over the GC refugees eyes and they will continue to reap the rewards of being the recognized part of the island.

VP,

In all seriousness, why don't you change your tune a bit and see what kind of response you will get.

For example. Why don't you propose to have a 1 country 2 state solution, but in a TRUE FEDERAL system, and non of that Unfair and Racist provisions that the AP asked for. You know yourself, that you would not have accepted those for the TC's, so don't be surprised that the GC's said NO also.

So what securities and guarantees the TC's would need.

What amount of TC representation needed in the Government.

What establishments or clubs would you recommend to bring the two communities together.

Does it not make a difference, that Cyprus is now in the EU and all previous GC ambitions ( Enosis ) are no longer valid or even possible.

You will have a large TC community in the North, no matter how many GC's decide to move back, so at worse, the TC's will be at least 70%- 30% living with the GC's. I really cannot envision more than 30% GC's moving back, and that will be after 15-20 years, so I'm very confident, that the TC's will remain the majority from now on. So you got what you want, and that is for the TC's to be the Majority in the North. With this kind of percentages, the North will more than likely have mostly TC's in the local Government.

So give as several scenarios as to how the TC's can be part of Greater Cyprus and yet run their own sector with the local GC's. How will this take anything away from what you want to preserve, which is your "Turkish Cypriotness". Give us some positive results as to how it could work out, even if you think, it will never work out, but give it to us anyway, and see what others can do, to help you establish your "Majority North".

Zan, could you address this post for me, which was design for VP, but he has been on a PISSY mood for long time. He is too good to answer my posts. I guess he thinks, that his "shit does not stink".

I will answer some of these points later Kikapu but it does make me wonder if you have bothered to read and understand what VP and I have been writting for the last year. I have not got the knowhow to give you details about how a system like you described would work but I can tell you that you are dismissing a system that has been thought through and compromised on for the last 30 or so years as in the Annan Plan. I have to say that unless the Plan comes back and or another plan is drawn up for me to read through and analyze then how the hell do you expect me to come up with a plan in such a short period of time and with limited knowledge in that respect.

The fact still remains and has not been answered by a single GC except for Kifeas of why the "RoC" did not do more to negotiate a better A Plan. The underhanded way they prepared their OXI was a shock to the whole world and not just us TCs. Perhaps you can explain this to me.

Sorry Zan for throwing too much on your plate all at once.

Just skip all the rest, but just answer the question that VP has been arguing for the last 2 years, and that is, "we want securities and guarantees". I have asked VP on many occasions to tell us what this means, but does not say anything. Do you know what it means Zan, and if so, can you tell us what they are.

As for the AP, Kifeas explained why the provisions that were in there, would not be acceptable to the 's, on another tread. Next time we are on line together, I'll put it on the screen for you, if you haven't already seen it yet. So far no Partitionist have been able to "shoot it down", so yes, another plan is needed, but has to be fair to all, without any Racist and Undemocratic provisions, to neither side.

[DT.]

VP WROTE:
"""you have your heart missing the TCs end of story get over it moron. """ ?????????? WTF ???

I bet you tell , who ever wants to listen , that you were BRITISH EDUCATED !!!
Care to translate the above example of English pigeon language to us , it makes no bloody sense mate , try it in Turkish , or is your Turkish even more "pigeon " than your English ?? Almost forgot , You are a team and the last post was obviously from a a junior member .

Your beloved "RoC" has a missing factor the TC community, this is like having your heart missing, got it now?

The RoC IS YOUR REPUBLIC TOO , THE "TRNC" is a pseudo state and you know what constitutes a true Republic ?? Legal status the world over , legal passports the world over , legal currency the world over and membership of the most respected institutions , this is the criteria of legal status not your inverted commas syndrome adapted by Turkey and the world sees Turkey as an occupying power.These are indisputable facts and only hard headed individuals will persist in calling the RoC as illegal !!!!!

The T/Cs are an integral part of Cyprus , it is your island just as it is mine , only you are supporting the break up of our nation and the continuation of faer of conflict some time in the future. Bir is a T/C and like him the are thousands who see Cyprus as united nation as the only option.Bir was born in Cyprus and suffered the consequences of conflict but he is not bitter and neither does he want his island to be divided were born in the UK , suffered no hardship during the conflict years , but have filled your brain with so much hatred and malicious ideas that are poisoning your immediate ability to think reasonably .Off all posters on this forum you are by far the most contagious individual , Zan is a perfect example who having met you has become your understudy.
I respect your right to express your views regardless how full of hatred they might be but I reserve the right to expose those views as the views of a foreigner not a T/C and a shortsighted one too , as well as the biggest bigot and racist on this forum.On your own admission you left the UK so that your children will be amongst their "own people " You detest the idea that your children may have to mix with G/C children and may have to put up with listening to the Greek language. In short my dear , you were a looser in the UK and you are an even bigger looser in Cyprus having s sold your soul to the Turkish Army.

Persistent little shite aren't you. I did say to VP when we met that you lot are trying to lump us together in order to try and dismiss both of us at once and it turns out I was right. My sentiments have not changed from day one Miltiades and well you know it. Just because you have had a nudge from your propaganda machine that this line of attack would be a good idea does not make it so.


I realise it is hard to see through the bottom of a glass but VP and I are individuals and I would not try in influence the way he thinks any more than he would me. You on the other hand seem content n trying to sell us a faulty product that has somehow slipped by the quality controllers. The "RoC" is nothing but a pseudo state that never should have been allowed in any organisation. We have recently been asked to accept the Zurich agreement as a form of solution. I think you agreed that that should happen. Under that agreement the Cyprus Republic should not be run without the presents of tithe TCs. Every law that has been passed since 63 has been an illegal one. Every decision made without the presence of the TC has been an illegal one. Every election ever minister and most importantly every president. You do not exist without us. You have tried to use Turkey as the excuse that we are under siege but the only siege we have been put under is by you. I am here to tell you that as a TC I do not recognise your government. They are not my government and never will be. You have become part of Greece and that too has contravened the Zurich agreement. Because you have done this by stealth and are making the right noises to make the world believe that this is not so makes not a blind bit of difference. You are a conman of the worst kind and a Cypriot you are not. The party line that you tow is there for all to see. You point to one thing that the "RoC" has done legally since 63. You want us to talk and consider unification when you persist in your illegalities in a flippant and sadistic way because you managed to con your way into the EU. I have said this more than once but I think that it was the EU that conned you. You have had your wings clipped now and the EU are looking at ways in which they can do the same for us. The US are looking for a way in which they can do the same for us and it is just a matter of time. They are giving you the chance to come clean and give us the rights we deserve and demand. The rights we will continue to demand.

Give it up. You have not sold a single faulty product. Those that are on your side have already bought into your con trick and are just to embarrass to say anything. The act of recognising you as an entity is illegal with the confines of the Zurich agreement. Just because we are first made to suffer the perils of ethnic cleansing and murder, then we are faced with an unjust decision by a group that had no real idea about the Cyprus conflict because of the propaganda by you lot and the incompetence by us lot does not mean we are about to lay down and be shafted by you again. The fight for our freedom and rights will go on as long as it takes and unless you see that then everything we want will just happen automatically.

Think you've finally crossed over to the dark side mate. If you notice there's nothing but agression, negativeness and paranoia left in your posts. I don't mean this as an attack but you're going from a person who debates against you in an intelligent and sharp witted manner to a guy who spouts of anything he can think off just to score points. You're too smart for this Zan don't go down this route. A lot of the stuff you say recently is so obviously a reaction to the posts you've been receieving and you probably dont even support half this stuff you write now. (I know cause we've both agreed in the past on similar points)

Turn away form the dark side Zan, turn away....come to the light.....luuuke...(sorry)

[denizaksulu]

I heard that the RoC is making it legal for GCs to use as they wish any Turkish property they wish. If that is true, then I dont want to hear claims of "Illegalities" from anyone, esp. Piratis and Sotos any more.

Just as I was beginning to trust the other side.

[zan]

VP WROTE:
"""you have your heart missing the TCs end of story get over it moron. """ ?????????? WTF ???

I bet you tell , who ever wants to listen , that you were BRITISH EDUCATED !!!
Care to translate the above example of English pigeon language to us , it makes no bloody sense mate , try it in Turkish , or is your Turkish even more "pigeon " than your English ?? Almost forgot , You are a team and the last post was obviously from a a junior member .

Your beloved "RoC" has a missing factor the TC community, this is like having your heart missing, got it now?

The RoC IS YOUR REPUBLIC TOO , THE "TRNC" is a pseudo state and you know what constitutes a true Republic ?? Legal status the world over , legal passports the world over , legal currency the world over and membership of the most respected institutions , this is the criteria of legal status not your inverted commas syndrome adapted by Turkey and the world sees Turkey as an occupying power.These are indisputable facts and only hard headed individuals will persist in calling the RoC as illegal !!!!!

The T/Cs are an integral part of Cyprus , it is your island just as it is mine , only you are supporting the break up of our nation and the continuation of faer of conflict some time in the future. Bir is a T/C and like him the are thousands who see Cyprus as united nation as the only option.Bir was born in Cyprus and suffered the consequences of conflict but he is not bitter and neither does he want his island to be divided were born in the UK , suffered no hardship during the conflict years , but have filled your brain with so much hatred and malicious ideas that are poisoning your immediate ability to think reasonably .Off all posters on this forum you are by far the most contagious individual , Zan is a perfect example who having met you has become your understudy.
I respect your right to express your views regardless how full of hatred they might be but I reserve the right to expose those views as the views of a foreigner not a T/C and a shortsighted one too , as well as the biggest bigot and racist on this forum.On your own admission you left the UK so that your children will be amongst their "own people " You detest the idea that your children may have to mix with G/C children and may have to put up with listening to the Greek language. In short my dear , you were a looser in the UK and you are an even bigger looser in Cyprus having s sold your soul to the Turkish Army.

Persistent little shite aren't you. I did say to VP when we met that you lot are trying to lump us together in order to try and dismiss both of us at once and it turns out I was right. My sentiments have not changed from day one Miltiades and well you know it. Just because you have had a nudge from your propaganda machine that this line of attack would be a good idea does not make it so.


I realise it is hard to see through the bottom of a glass but VP and I are individuals and I would not try in influence the way he thinks any more than he would me. You on the other hand seem content n trying to sell us a faulty product that has somehow slipped by the quality controllers. The "RoC" is nothing but a pseudo state that never should have been allowed in any organisation. We have recently been asked to accept the Zurich agreement as a form of solution. I think you agreed that that should happen. Under that agreement the Cyprus Republic should not be run without the presents of tithe TCs. Every law that has been passed since 63 has been an illegal one. Every decision made without the presence of the TC has been an illegal one. Every election ever minister and most importantly every president. You do not exist without us. You have tried to use Turkey as the excuse that we are under siege but the only siege we have been put under is by you. I am here to tell you that as a TC I do not recognise your government. They are not my government and never will be. You have become part of Greece and that too has contravened the Zurich agreement. Because you have done this by stealth and are making the right noises to make the world believe that this is not so makes not a blind bit of difference. You are a conman of the worst kind and a Cypriot you are not. The party line that you tow is there for all to see. You point to one thing that the "RoC" has done legally since 63. You want us to talk and consider unification when you persist in your illegalities in a flippant and sadistic way because you managed to con your way into the EU. I have said this more than once but I think that it was the EU that conned you. You have had your wings clipped now and the EU are looking at ways in which they can do the same for us. The US are looking for a way in which they can do the same for us and it is just a matter of time. They are giving you the chance to come clean and give us the rights we deserve and demand. The rights we will continue to demand.

Give it up. You have not sold a single faulty product. Those that are on your side have already bought into your con trick and are just to embarrass to say anything. The act of recognising you as an entity is illegal with the confines of the Zurich agreement. Just because we are first made to suffer the perils of ethnic cleansing and murder, then we are faced with an unjust decision by a group that had no real idea about the Cyprus conflict because of the propaganda by you lot and the incompetence by us lot does not mean we are about to lay down and be shafted by you again. The fight for our freedom and rights will go on as long as it takes and unless you see that then everything we want will just happen automatically.

Think you've finally crossed over to the dark side mate. If you notice there's nothing but agression, negativeness and paranoia left in your posts. I don't mean this as an attack but you're going from a person who debates against you in an intelligent and sharp witted manner to a guy who spouts of anything he can think off just to score points. You're too smart for this Zan don't go down this route. A lot of the stuff you say recently is so obviously a reaction to the posts you've been receieving and you probably dont even support half this stuff you write now. (I know cause we've both agreed in the past on similar points)

Turn away form the dark side Zan, turn away....come to the light.....luuuke...(sorry)

What can say to people like you DT but sorry. I have to, and for that matter the TRNC/KKTC has to, react to what we are being shown to be the face of Cypriotism. We as TC are not being listened to by those that call themselves Greek or the nationalist so called Cypriots. We are tired of pussy footing around waiting for a solution while we rot away. I realise that this is exactly what some have in plan for us but it will not work. We have to agree to talk in terms of the Annan Plan or a simular plan or we have to part so that we can both get on with our lives. There is pain coming our way which ever route we take but we must minimalise this as best we can. The old Cyprus has gone but still we see the old ideas poke their ugly heads out. Just walking into the so called "RoC" is not an option that the majority of TCs will accept, me being one of them. I am fighting those that are clearly here from the Greek propaganda machine and those that hate me and mine. Not all of them are GC either.

[BirKibrisli]

What can say to people like you DT but sorry. I have to, and for that matter the TRNC/KKTC has to, react to what we are being shown to be the face of Cypriotism. We as TC are not being listened to by those that call themselves Greek or the nationalist so called Cypriots. We are tired of pussy footing around waiting for a solution while we rot away. I realise that this is exactly what some have in plan for us but it will not work. We have to agree to talk in terms of the Annan Plan or a simular plan or we have to part so that we can both get on with our lives. There is pain coming our way which ever route we take but we must minimalise this as best we can. The old Cyprus has gone but still we see the old ideas poke their ugly heads out. Just walking into the so called "RoC" is not an option that the majority of TCs will accept, me being one of them. I am fighting those that are clearly here from the Greek propaganda machine and those that hate me and mine. Not all of them are GC either.

People in glass houses...this applies to you,Zan...
What are you sorry about? That you can't bring yourself to say you are a Cypriot? That you can't bring yourself to say Cyprus is your motherland and you have no other????That you can't bring yourself to say Cypriots are one nation divided by two man made factors,language and religion???

Or sorry about the 40,000 soldiers who have illegally occupied 37% of your country and made 250,000 of your people refugees???Sorry about the lack of courage and loyalty to your motherland in the face of foreign occupation??? Sorry about condoning the use and abuse of the refugee land,and your lack of objection when it is given away to people who have absolutely no right to be in your country??? Sorry about turning part of your country over to drug barons and casino mafia and brothel operators??? Sorry about raping the environment and pillaging other peoples sacred monuments???? All in the name of providing guarantees and safeguards for the gutless wonders like you who singly can do nothing,but together can decide that nothing can be done about the status quo????What exactly are you sorry about????

[zan]

What can say to people like you DT but sorry. I have to, and for that matter the TRNC/KKTC has to, react to what we are being shown to be the face of Cypriotism. We as TC are not being listened to by those that call themselves Greek or the nationalist so called Cypriots. We are tired of pussy footing around waiting for a solution while we rot away. I realise that this is exactly what some have in plan for us but it will not work. We have to agree to talk in terms of the Annan Plan or a simular plan or we have to part so that we can both get on with our lives. There is pain coming our way which ever route we take but we must minimalise this as best we can. The old Cyprus has gone but still we see the old ideas poke their ugly heads out. Just walking into the so called "RoC" is not an option that the majority of TCs will accept, me being one of them. I am fighting those that are clearly here from the Greek propaganda machine and those that hate me and mine. Not all of them are GC either.

People in glass houses...this applies to you,Zan...
What are you sorry about? That you can't bring yourself to say you are a Cypriot? That you can't bring yourself to say Cyprus is your motherland and you have no other????That you can't bring yourself to say Cypriots are one nation divided by two man made factors,language and religion???

Or sorry about the 40,000 soldiers who have illegally occupied 37% of your country and made 250,000 of your people refugees???Sorry about the lack of courage and loyalty to your motherland in the face of foreign occupation??? Sorry about condoning the use and abuse of the refugee land,and your lack of objection when it is given away to people who have absolutely no right to be in your country??? Sorry about turning part of your country over to drug barons and casino mafia and brothel operators??? Sorry about raping the environment and pillaging other peoples sacred monuments???? All in the name of providing guarantees and safeguards for the gutless wonders like you who singly can do nothing,but together can decide that nothing can be done about the status quo????What exactly are you sorry about????

I am sorry that you choose to live in 1974 but refuse to allow me to live in 1963. I am sorry that you do not realise the series of events that led to what you describe. I am sorry that you cannot take the two and come up with something more reasonable. I am sorry that you have chosen to side with the entity that has no regrets about what happened before 74 and is still telling me that what happened afterwards is the cause of what happened before. Does that not make sense because it makes no sense to me neither. Time is an arrow that points in one direction only. It can be bent but it cannot be reversed but you and others like you want to do that. I am sorry that you can say that because your father was in the TMT we deserve everthing we got but the GCS did not. You want to put right what they lost but I am to stand in the cold and wonder what the hell happened. I am sorry that you can forgive the people that are cheating those in the south that are ruining village after village but your short sitedness only sees what is going on in the North. I am sorry that you can excuse corruption at the highest level in the south but want to use what goes on in the North to destroy us. I am sorry that you cannot see that you are doing more harm than good. I am sorry that you refuse to hear anything that every TC that lives on the island and posts on this forum are telling you one thing but you refuse to listen to a word they say. I am sorry that you see yourself moore as a Greek and are completly ashamed of being even a little bit Turkish. I am sorry for people like you that are lost souls in a big world that wants to smother anything about you.

[Murataga]

What can say to people like you DT but sorry. I have to, and for that matter the TRNC/KKTC has to, react to what we are being shown to be the face of Cypriotism. We as TC are not being listened to by those that call themselves Greek or the nationalist so called Cypriots. We are tired of pussy footing around waiting for a solution while we rot away. I realise that this is exactly what some have in plan for us but it will not work. We have to agree to talk in terms of the Annan Plan or a simular plan or we have to part so that we can both get on with our lives. There is pain coming our way which ever route we take but we must minimalise this as best we can. The old Cyprus has gone but still we see the old ideas poke their ugly heads out. Just walking into the so called "RoC" is not an option that the majority of TCs will accept, me being one of them. I am fighting those that are clearly here from the Greek propaganda machine and those that hate me and mine. Not all of them are GC either.

People in glass houses...this applies to you,Zan...
What are you sorry about? That you can't bring yourself to say you are a Cypriot? That you can't bring yourself to say Cyprus is your motherland and you have no other????That you can't bring yourself to say Cypriots are one nation divided by two man made factors,language and religion???

Or sorry about the 40,000 soldiers who have illegally occupied 37% of your country and made 250,000 of your people refugees???Sorry about the lack of courage and loyalty to your motherland in the face of foreign occupation??? Sorry about condoning the use and abuse of the refugee land,and your lack of objection when it is given away to people who have absolutely no right to be in your country??? Sorry about turning part of your country over to drug barons and casino mafia and brothel operators??? Sorry about raping the environment and pillaging other peoples sacred monuments???? All in the name of providing guarantees and safeguards for the gutless wonders like you who singly can do nothing,but together can decide that nothing can be done about the status quo????What exactly are you sorry about????

I am sorry that you choose to live in 1974 but refuse to allow me to live in 1963. I am sorry that you do not realise the series of events that led to what you describe. I am sorry that you cannot take the two and come up with something more reasonable. I am sorry that you have chosen to side with the entity that has no regrets about what happened before 74 and is still telling me that what happened afterwards is the cause of what happened before. Does that not make sense because it makes no sense to me neither. Time is an arrow that points in one direction only. It can be bent but it cannot be reversed but you and others like you want to do that. I am sorry that you can say that because your father was in the TMT we deserve everthing we got but the GCS did not. You want to put right what they lost but I am to stand in the cold and wonder what the hell happened. I am sorry that you can forgive the people that are cheating those in the south that are ruining village after village but your short sitedness only sees what is going on in the North. I am sorry that you can excuse corruption at the highest level in the south but want to use what goes on in the North to destroy us. I am sorry that you cannot see that you are doing more harm than good. I am sorry that you refuse to hear anything that every TC that lives on the island and posts on this forum are telling you one thing but you refuse to listen to a word they say. I am sorry that you see yourself moore as a Greek and are completly ashamed of being even a little bit Turkish. I am sorry for people like you that are lost souls in a big world that wants to smother anything about you.

One of the most perceptive and outstanding posts I`ve come across on this forum. Excellent Zan!

[Sotos]

I am sorry that you see yourself moore as a Greek and are completly ashamed of being even a little bit Turkish.

I think he is just ashamed to be the kind of Turk that you are. Who wouldn't? Murataga maybe

[Get Real!]

I heard that the RoC is making it legal for GCs to use as they wish any Turkish property they wish. If that is true, then I dont want to hear claims of "Illegalities" from anyone, esp. Piratis and Sotos any more.

Just as I was beginning to trust the other side.

The idea is to allow the GC occupant to pass the property on (sell/rent) to another GC as an investment or whatever but if and when the actual TC owner comes to claim it all the GC's have to leave!

[Pyrpolizer]

Sell is not included I think. What he can sell are the rights he is given. Those rights automatically end with a solution. How they called it "empragmato dikaioma?" But I am not sure for which TC properties that law is referring to.

I am absolutely sure however there is absolutely no right on the land itself.

Actually those idiots have just admitted the property issue will be solved that way. The owner of land will continue have ownership of the land but no ownership of the building on top of it-if the building was built by someone else.
If you noticed they said that there are cases in Europe that there are upto 8 ownerships of properties.