Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Kikapu said

Zan,

I read most of what you and Bir talked about this afternoon, and I have to say, that your whole attitude is all wrong about Bir and even me. You want to make arguments over past events and he wants to move forward. You live with a ghost and he lives with hope. You are stuck in one place and he has moved forward. He reaches out to the future and you pull back yourself into the past. I can go on and on, but I really do not want to waste my time trying to explain the very basics to you.

I'm sorry to hear that you have gone from being a Turkish Cypriot to becoming a Cypriot Turk. I haven't even heard VP doing that yet, so I guess I was correct on you the other day, when I said, that you are a TC only in name, but in Spirit you have already surrounded your uniqueness to be assimilated into the Turkish Culture. I shouldn't be too surprised really, after all, I do remember few months back you stating, that once your kids finished their education and you have managed to save some money, that you would be moving to Turkey. I don't think that is a bad idea all by itself. I had similar thoughts few years also as well as some members of my family. That was of course when we all thought that Turkey might be on it's way into the EU, but the way things look right now, it will be a long shot.

I know you and VP and others want to put another face for the world to see regarding the Cyprus situation through this forum, but if you guys read half the things you write, it would be enough for an outsider to see you as nothing but a "Paid Propagandist" to push for a Partition. All your arguments goes against what a reasonable compassionate person would see, that most things you write has nothing to do with peace and reconciliation, but rather a ruthless reminder of the past. Just by keep repeating them, will not change anything. I doubt you are winning any support or sympathy with those kinds of attitudes. When I and Bir write about fairness to all Cypriots, you and others write about all the wrong doings done to the TC's by the GC's. When we talk about solution to all Cypriots, you talk about all the bad things done to the TC's by the GC's. When we talk about a better future for all Cypriots, you talk about all the bad things that were done to the TC's by the GC's. What ever happened to "the other side of the coin" Zan?.

People are not stupid. They can read right through all the propaganda. In effect, you are shooting yourself in the foot every time you try to make an argument with Bir. You lose each time, because you are the bitter one who is not willing to move an inch. You are the one who is not willing to compromise. You are the one, who can't see the future for our people. You are the one, that sounds Hateful and Racist, even if you're not, but your message reads just like that. The people you're trying to impress the most (not me and Bir), are not going to accept your arguments, because you dio not offer a solution, but only complaints. Most people are a honest and forgiving and wishful and hopeful for the future. They will see you nothing but a "cry baby" and will dismiss most of your arguments if not all, because you do not offer anything that a reasonable people would like to hear from what you say to them. You're not winning any sympathy at all. They have enough bad things in their own lives to deal with, and do not want to be bothered with your complaints as to what happened in the past. People want to help, but they are reasonable people and they want to do the reasonable thing, and that is to help all Cypriots to get their country back on it's feet.

I have asked you the same question that I asked VP the other day, but you have not responded. The question was "what securities and guarantees do the TC's need to live with the GC's". Please answer this question as you and VP always raise it, but never want to answer it. If you don't know the answer, that is fine, but don't keep raising it, if you don't have an answer for it.

Thank you Kikapu, thank you because you have said to him what I wanted to say to him now for a while. However as greek speaking Cypriot I was fearing and containing myself for a long time.

Since he and two other (and happy to say NOT VP) mocked me on one of my posts about my uncles killing by the Turkish gun. I have actually decided that I do not wish to give him or the other two any more time. You are right the are hateful, racist and take Cyprus back not to 63 but the dark ages. I am over their racism and fascism.

You said something about VP, not being aTurk and whilst I disagree with all that VP says I respect him, he is merely putting his argument forth and perhaps he is more cunning in hiding his true feeling and agenda but I personally will listen to him any day, whethere I choose to respond to him is another thing but I listen. At least most of the time he like the rest of us has something valid to say that we can learn from unlike some others on both sides of the coin. And there are a couple of racist fascist GC's on here also.

But thank you for a well stated post as above. God if only the fascists on both sides would leave Cyprus for their eternal motherlands the new Cyprus would be an envious place for all to want to live there.

Thank you again.

I have never mocked you about your uncles death. Please show me where and I will appologise in an instant. Show me?

[BirKibrisli]

İ feel so sorry for the TCs here, its so sad what these people have been going through and the bullshit they've had to put up with from both directions (RoC & TR). They're (literally) stuck in the middle, they're being played about and no one really cares about them.

Yazık

PS: İ can definately understand a lot of where GCs are coming from also but İ just want them to know that TRNC is NOT what North would be like if it was upto TCs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRNC is the product of Turkey NOT Turkish Cypriots!

OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! im so eager to write but im going to hold out...

The way to get your frustration off your chest is to write and write and write some more,dear t_c....But in a notebook for now.Otherwise you will forget most of the little details when you get back....carry a notebook everywhere,and pictures help to jolt your mind as well....
And remember,in effective writing the key is in the details,little observations which make what you say come alive...the names of people and places,the smells and the colours you see and smell,little bits of direct speech (quoting exactly what people said) make all the difference...
Who knows you and Kikapu might end up with a published book out of this....and steal my thunder....

[humanist]

turkish cypriot ....... despite the fact that I never have visited the trnc, I feel I know excactly what you are saying. It is so evident that it is not what a few people on this forum would have us believe, how can it be? We have seen it overe and over again in other parts of the world that military dictatorships only bring pain and heartache. I am sure that it is not what it could be like.

Mate no matter what a greek speaking Cypriot tells you, about their losses and yes many have lost out a lot and many have lost loved ones two. The hardship faced by Turkish speaking Cypriots over the last 33 years, is no where that faced by any refugee in Cyprus (even those who lost a loved one as time heals that wound) and thankfully the greek speaking Cypriots have been on the greener side of the fence. That is not to say their pain is not real. I amy sound contradicting but I stand by my coment.

I think we do know that trnc is a bi roduct of Turkey not the TC's. That is why very few times do you hear that by greek speaking Cypriots blaming TC's.

The whole of Cyprus belongs to All Cypriots.

Unfortunately the work lies within them to protest and protest with their feet also, to vote for insirational leadership who is going to break them free and unify them with their compatriots, who believe it or not actually care (sure not all but the majority do).

[Kikapu]

I am sorry but I answered your question or at least I thought I did. The conditions laid down by the Annan Plan which is based on the Zurich agreement with aditions due to cercumstances. .


As for the rest of your rubbish I think that is a bit choice coming from a man that has over used the refugee card along with the word Haram. If you want to leave the past behind then why are you so selective in your choice for 1974. The past is the past mate and your contradictions are even more plain to see.

I was under the impression, that the Zurich agreement was the basis for the 1960 Constitution, which is still there if you wanted it, and not the basis for the AP. Regardless, it takes two to Tango, and the GC's chose not to Tango on the Tunes of the AP, so does that mean that the Tune cannot be changed to suit both parties, sure it can. Where is the leadership that has been elected to do that. You should vent your anger at Talat and let the GC vent their anger at PappaD.

As for your last paragraph, once again you have proved to us what you are made of. 1974 cannot be left behind, because today's conditions are a direct results from that date, which includes the refugees ( can never be "over played") and the "land grab". 1974 was the last link in the chain of events, so if you want to go any further back, '74 needs to be solved first. I personally would like to see all of us move forward from the events of '74 into the next link of the future chain, then there won't be any reason to discuss the '74 events anymore.

What you will do, is another matter entirely different, I'm sure.

[Kikapu]

İ feel so sorry for the TCs here, its so sad what these people have been going through and the bullshit they've had to put up with from both directions (RoC & TR). They're (literally) stuck in the middle, they're being played about and no one really cares about them.

Yazık

PS: İ can definately understand a lot of where GCs are coming from also but İ just want them to know that TRNC is NOT what North would be like if it was upto TCs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRNC is the product of Turkey NOT Turkish Cypriots!

OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! im so eager to write but im going to hold out...

The way to get your frustration off your chest is to write and write and write some more,dear t_c....But in a notebook for now.Otherwise you will forget most of the little details when you get back....carry a notebook everywhere,and pictures help to jolt your mind as well....
And remember,in effective writing the key is in the details,little observations which make what you say come alive...the names of people and places,the smells and the colours you see and smell,little bits of direct speech (quoting exactly what people said) make all the difference...
Who knows you and Kikapu might end up with a published book out of this....and steal my thunder....

You know, that T_C is my favourite TC on the forum, even if I do piss him off, from time to time.

You're right Bir, and T_C take note what Bir has said. It is very important to observe body language as people tell you things. It is all the little details that tell a story and not just "direct words". Same time, don't forget to tell us how you also felt when ever you do talk to people. Lets hear your emotions also, so that we can see the full picture, so write everything down if your memory is not as good as mine, to recall it at later stage..

Take care.

[miltiades]

The more True Cypriots the better for Cyprus and the better for our future generations. On this forum alone there are more than a dozen True Cypriots , wait for it though , some looser will call us the Dirty Dozen. Well I'm Lee Marvin how about you Kikapu.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu said

Zan,

I read most of what you and Bir talked about this afternoon, and I have to say, that your whole attitude is all wrong about Bir and even me. You want to make arguments over past events and he wants to move forward. You live with a ghost and he lives with hope. You are stuck in one place and he has moved forward. He reaches out to the future and you pull back yourself into the past. I can go on and on, but I really do not want to waste my time trying to explain the very basics to you.

I'm sorry to hear that you have gone from being a Turkish Cypriot to becoming a Cypriot Turk. I haven't even heard VP doing that yet, so I guess I was correct on you the other day, when I said, that you are a TC only in name, but in Spirit you have already surrounded your uniqueness to be assimilated into the Turkish Culture. I shouldn't be too surprised really, after all, I do remember few months back you stating, that once your kids finished their education and you have managed to save some money, that you would be moving to Turkey. I don't think that is a bad idea all by itself. I had similar thoughts few years also as well as some members of my family. That was of course when we all thought that Turkey might be on it's way into the EU, but the way things look right now, it will be a long shot.

I know you and VP and others want to put another face for the world to see regarding the Cyprus situation through this forum, but if you guys read half the things you write, it would be enough for an outsider to see you as nothing but a "Paid Propagandist" to push for a Partition. All your arguments goes against what a reasonable compassionate person would see, that most things you write has nothing to do with peace and reconciliation, but rather a ruthless reminder of the past. Just by keep repeating them, will not change anything. I doubt you are winning any support or sympathy with those kinds of attitudes. When I and Bir write about fairness to all Cypriots, you and others write about all the wrong doings done to the TC's by the GC's. When we talk about solution to all Cypriots, you talk about all the bad things done to the TC's by the GC's. When we talk about a better future for all Cypriots, you talk about all the bad things that were done to the TC's by the GC's. What ever happened to "the other side of the coin" Zan?.

People are not stupid. They can read right through all the propaganda. In effect, you are shooting yourself in the foot every time you try to make an argument with Bir. You lose each time, because you are the bitter one who is not willing to move an inch. You are the one who is not willing to compromise. You are the one, who can't see the future for our people. You are the one, that sounds Hateful and Racist, even if you're not, but your message reads just like that. The people you're trying to impress the most (not me and Bir), are not going to accept your arguments, because you dio not offer a solution, but only complaints. Most people are a honest and forgiving and wishful and hopeful for the future. They will see you nothing but a "cry baby" and will dismiss most of your arguments if not all, because you do not offer anything that a reasonable people would like to hear from what you say to them. You're not winning any sympathy at all. They have enough bad things in their own lives to deal with, and do not want to be bothered with your complaints as to what happened in the past. People want to help, but they are reasonable people and they want to do the reasonable thing, and that is to help all Cypriots to get their country back on it's feet.

I have asked you the same question that I asked VP the other day, but you have not responded. The question was "what securities and guarantees do the TC's need to live with the GC's". Please answer this question as you and VP always raise it, but never want to answer it. If you don't know the answer, that is fine, but don't keep raising it, if you don't have an answer for it.

Thank you Kikapu, thank you because you have said to him what I wanted to say to him now for a while. However as greek speaking Cypriot I was fearing and containing myself for a long time.

Since he and two other (and happy to say NOT VP) mocked me on one of my posts about my uncles killing by the Turkish gun. I have actually decided that I do not wish to give him or the other two any more time. You are right the are hateful, racist and take Cyprus back not to 63 but the dark ages. I am over their racism and fascism.

You said something about VP, not being aTurk and whilst I disagree with all that VP says I respect him, he is merely putting his argument forth and perhaps he is more cunning in hiding his true feeling and agenda but I personally will listen to him any day, whethere I choose to respond to him is another thing but I listen. At least most of the time he like the rest of us has something valid to say that we can learn from unlike some others on both sides of the coin. And there are a couple of racist fascist GC's on here also.

But thank you for a well stated post as above. God if only the fascists on both sides would leave Cyprus for their eternal motherlands the new Cyprus would be an envious place for all to want to live there.

Thank you again.

Thank you humanist, I also respect and value your opinions because you do not degrade the debate or use the lowest common denominator being scarcasm to ridicule and dowgrade peoples viewpoints. Although we do not see eye to eye respect and understanding means we can continue to debate matters without insulting each other, not like certain posters whom I choose to ignore as they are beyond any sort of unbiased discussions, they do more damage to reunificaiton than they will ever know becuase they do not have the intelligence to understand what they are doing is far worst than any partitionist could ever do.

[Pyrpolizer]

İ feel so sorry for the TCs here, its so sad what these people have been going through and the bullshit they've had to put up with from both directions (RoC & TR). They're (literally) stuck in the middle, they're being played about and no one really cares about them.

Yazık

PS: İ can definately understand a lot of where GCs are coming from also but İ just want them to know that TRNC is NOT what North would be like if it was upto TCs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRNC is the product of Turkey NOT Turkish Cypriots!

OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! im so eager to write but im going to hold out...

TC I am looking forward to it as well. Please if you write it to another section put a note in here so I trace it as I don't follow any other section of this forum.

I heard the same many times that the TCs feel they are between 2 crashing stones, the GCs on one side and Turkey on the other. I am interested to hear real life examples how is that.

On a side note TCs proved they have a charisma in been superb writters. I 've read Kikapus story with great interest, not felt tired even for a second, I even read Denktashes book within 2 days, but I never managed to read more than half of Klerides first book in 2 months until I gave up

[BirKibrisli]

The more True Cypriots the better for Cyprus and the better for our future generations. On this forum alone there are more than a dozen True Cypriots , wait for it though , some looser will call us the Dirty Dozen. Well I'm Lee Marvin how about you Kikapu.

Kikapu will have to be Robert Ryan,and I will have to be Telly Savalas,dear miltiades...

[BirKibrisli]

İ feel so sorry for the TCs here, its so sad what these people have been going through and the bullshit they've had to put up with from both directions (RoC & TR). They're (literally) stuck in the middle, they're being played about and no one really cares about them.

Yazık

PS: İ can definately understand a lot of where GCs are coming from also but İ just want them to know that TRNC is NOT what North would be like if it was upto TCs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRNC is the product of Turkey NOT Turkish Cypriots!

OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! im so eager to write but im going to hold out...

TC I am looking forward to it as well. Please if you write it to another section put a note in here so I trace it as I don't follow any other section of this forum.

I heard the same many times that the TCs feel they are between 2 crashing stones, the GCs on one side and Turkey on the other. I am interested to hear real life examples how is that.

On a side note TCs proved they have a charisma in been superb writters. I 've read Kikapus story with great interest, not felt tired even for a second, I even read Denktashes book within 2 days, but I never managed to read more than half of Klerides first book in 2 months until I gave up

You deserve a medal if you could read Denktash's book in 2 days,Pyro...
But then again perhaps not,as you have not been exposed to his thousands of speeches (well,really one speech said 1000s of times)...and that was between 1955 and 1969 in my case...

Does anyone know if and where I can find Klerides's books in English or Turkish???