Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Murataga; you are a brilliant debater. Bravo. And keeping it clean and cool at the same time.

[Get Real!]

Murataga:

Firstly: I do not deny the existence of your illegal/wrongful/unethical recognition as the RoC; I challenge it. I challenge it as a person would challenge slavery in the 18th century (legal and practiced but illegitimate and motivated by political interest), I challenge it as a man would challenge calling the planet flat in the 15th century (as facts not known well enough by the world due to the success of your propaganda). I challenge it because the U.N. defines how and what RoC should be and you are not. I challenge it because our leaders have agreed on what RoC should be and you are not. I challenge it because RoC can come about only with the contribution/attendance of two people after the establishment, implementation and safeguard of an agreed legal framework based on what the U.N. mandates and our leaders have agreed. You are not the RoC because you lack these imperative terms. You are not the RoC because the RoC which you claim to be is not a bi-communal, bi-zonal state granting politically equal status to two communities of this island, not to mention that it is comprised of a single community, period.

Murataga, after reading this far into your post I now challenge your sanity. Vote #4 against was mine and my gift to Murataga the “challenger” who has rightfully earned it.

Regards, GR.

[Pyrpolizer]

I challenge his sanity too GR.
This guy got lost in his own fallacies.

Btw I have not voted as the question is invalid.

[Get Real!]

I challenge his sanity too GR.
This guy got lost in his own fallacies.

Btw I have not voted as the question is invalid.

What the hell Pyro let him have it Murataga earned it!

[Pyrpolizer]

o.k. this is getting extremely long and repetitive out of stubbornness and ego of some participants. I can not keep writing pages of explanation for every GC that refuses to read and understand what I have clarified time and time again in previous posts. Let’s get one thing straight: it is neither my duty nor interest to address ridiculous questions emerging out of one-dimensional thinking, egoistic nature and perverted historical data. If you make a point that has a level of attraction for a dialogue-based discussion I’ll engage (as my time permits), otherwise I can not and will not bother. The likes of you have the common misconception that if an answer to your post is not immediately given , than the other side is unable to answer the question and that you have automatically proven something or scored a point. The two that have made this mistake on this very thread got a spanking of the worst kind, so I suggest that you rid yourself of this shallow habit. Finally, you have chosen not to answer the question I have asked above, but at the same time did not refrain from directing questions at me. As a matter of courtesy to our conversations in the past, I will still try to give an overall explanation to your inquiries for just this once.

Boring prologue that answers nothing. Let’s move on.

Firstly: I do not deny the existence of your illegal/wrongful/unethical recognition as the RoC; I challenge it.

Illegal according to your sophistries. Still you haven’t answered any thing concerning the SOPHISTRIES on which yourr whole theory is based. Let’s move on.

I challenge it as a person would challenge slavery in the 18th century (legal and practiced but illegitimate and motivated by political interest), I challenge it as a man would challenge calling the planet flat in the 15th century (as facts not known well enough by the world due to the success of your propaganda). I challenge it because the U.N. defines how and what RoC should be and you are not. I challenge it because our leaders have agreed on what RoC should be and you are not. I challenge it because RoC can come about only with the contribution/attendance of two people after the establishment, implementation and safeguard of an agreed legal framework based on what the U.N. mandates and our leaders have agreed. You are not the RoC because you lack these imperative terms.

You challenge and challnenge and challenge. On what grounds? They ones you yourself manufactured with fallacious logic?

You are not the RoC because the RoC which you claim to be is not a bi-communal, bi-zonal state granting politically equal status to two communities of this island, not to mention that it is comprised of a single community, period.

No we are the RoC, and the fact that you are not in, makes you illegal and renegate. No need to repeat the other illegalities you have done to this Republic in cooperation with your mama. Until that bicommunal bizonal state is agreed to it’s last detail, the RoC is the only legal entity. Given the huge illegalities you currently make like importing settlers by the thousands (now in Morphou) selling stolen GC properties to the foreigners and so on, you will soon have to kiss goodbuy even the BBF.

The bottom line is that the solution of the problem lies in an RoC defined by the U.N. The U.N. outlines what this RoC is.

The bottom line is not what RoC should be but what the GCs who are part of the RoC have accepted as a compromise and as a means to end your illgalities which continue as we speak. The GCs have accepted a Federal State to replace the RoC just to get their rights back which you have stolen from them in the RoC and presumably give you the chance to participate in a legal State which you currently refuse to unless it changes from Unitary state to a BBF.
This is another basic axiom on which you base your fallacious conclussions.
the assumption that by agreeing to go ahead into some different government, automatically and before the details are agreed and signed make all previous agreements ….. illegal/invalid and what have you.

Additionally, would Zimbabwe be the RoC if somehow the U.N. said that is o.k.?

Are you asdking me??? Ask the UN, they are the ones who said BBF is the ultimate truth!

Would its legal recognition by the world make it the RoC in fact, or grant it the privileges of the RoC in legitimacy, or the right to negotiate about RoC`s future/policies/transformation for that matter? There are certain credentials for the legal/lawful presence of the RoC; this Resolution puts forth what they are; and you do not satisfy them, as neither do the Zimbabweans; end of story.

Again you are constantly confusing RoC which is a perfectly valid/legal/ and internationally acceptable state with a future possibility of having a new agreement again perfectly legal/and valid which however will be called United Federal Cyprus Republic. Do I have to repeat that until thi possibility becomes reality (should I warn you that it may never become?) the only legal State and Government is the RoC. So I would advice you to return to it and start seeking a better deal from within the RoC. That ill save you time in seeking your legal international representation, with all the goodies that come with it

t doesn’t say "structure the state with new law" it says the "solution should be as". Let`s say for the sake of the conversation that you and I are supposed to be partners. We do not agree on the terms of a partnership and go to court. The court decides the terms of the partnership.

We already decided nd agreed on the terms of partnership. Until we decide and fully agree on the last detail of any possible new partnership this is what we have. the RoC.

How can you be the final partnership venture during all this time when (A) the venture is to be formed between the two partners and not by the venture and one of the partners (2) what the venture is supposed to be is a matter of debate taken to a higher institution of decision-making to begin with (3) the terms of the venture set forth by the court has no resemblance to your accusatory venture at any time.

How can we??? Jesus you got totally lost in your own deep waters. The venture in which WE ARE, and which YOU ARE NOT because you chose to abandon it for reasons of the pre-planned 1974 invasion is the RoC. The future venture if and ever that materialises is a totally different story. Is this another trick of sophitry mixing up present and posible future situations?

Hey listen, next week I may win the lottery and become a millionaire, how is it possible for me today to drive anything less than a Ferrari? DAMN HOW CAN I?

The U.N. is involved in Cyprus because there is a problem/disagreement among the parties of concern. If there is an agreement among the communities (not necessarily in the way you point to) and the problem is solved, the issue would no longer be of concern to or in the jurisdiction of the U.N.

The question you should ask yourself then is why the UN put the concept of BBF in it’s resolutions? Was it to declare the RoC illegal as you claim, or to stop Denktash (it was during Denktash in 1992 that the first BBF resolution emerged) from asking global exchange of propertiesa and partition as if my own country were for sale. Do some straight forward thinking man and you ill get many and much more accurate answers to your questions.

Any way, please don’t get me wrong but I am really short on time these upcoming few days and won’t be able to attend this discussion as actively as I was able to in the past couple of days.

You may reply anytime you wish Murataga. But you don’t get me wrong either, I already realised where you come from and where you are trying to go. Basically I will not bother to answer any more novels, which are totally based on sophistries and false assumptions.

[MR-from-NG]

GR, Pyrpolizer,

Please accept it, Murataga is in a different league to you guys. He obviously does his research and puts his all into a debate. I've not seen him insult you once, how about showing him the same courtesy?

If this was a boxing match it would be seen as a mismatch. Murataga kicks ass, with style.

[Pyrpolizer]

I challenge his sanity too GR.
This guy got lost in his own fallacies.

Btw I have not voted as the question is invalid.

What the hell Pyro let him have it Murataga earned it!

I had to read and re-read what he wrote, and reply to him GR, otherwise I wouldn't be able to measure the full degree of his insanity.

He is another desparate person seeking for new excuses.

But, could you ever have imagined a TC, using Ancient Greek Sophistry methods?

[Get Real!]

GR, Pyrpolizer,

Please accept it, Murataga is in a different league to you guys. He obviously does his research and puts his all into a debate. I've not seen him insult you once, how about showing him the same courtesy?

If this was a boxing match it would be seen as a mismatch. Murataga kicks ass, with style.

Thank God for Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity or I’d be at a loss trying to understand you both. Luckily he justifies your viewpoints and the level of your standards.

[humanist]

Pyr, Piratis, Sotos, Kafenes, Kikapu I wonder why you even bother!!!! Let them be ruled by a dictatorship an blame the RoC for their misfortunes. Personally am over it.

[MR-from-NG]

I challenge his sanity too GR.
This guy got lost in his own fallacies.

Btw I have not voted as the question is invalid.

What the hell Pyro let him have it Murataga earned it!

I had to read and re-read what he wrote, and reply to him GR, otherwise I wouldn't be able to measure the full degree of his insanity.

He is another desparate person seeking for new excuses.

But, could you ever have imagined a TC, using Ancient Greek Sophistry methods?

Strange, from where I'm sitting Murataga seems cool, calm and collected. Are we bitching like little girls now? Throwing our toys out of the pram?

Stand tall and take it on the chin, like a Greek warrior