Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Can you also answer the following question, if GCs represent the English then who do the TCs represent in the UK? The Pakistanis or the Scottish?

If you refer to the UK, neither the GCs can be paralleled with the English, nor the TCs with the Scottish! The English originate from England, the Scottish from Scotland! In Cyprus there is no area called the Greekcypriotland, for the GCs to originate from, neither there is an area called the Turkishcypriotland!

What we have in Cyprus is an illegal invasion by Turkey, a foreign country, an ethnic cleansing of GCs from the north part of Cyprus by Turkey and an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey! Absolutely no relationship with your Scotland vs. England nonsense!

There is a parallel it just does not serve your purpose look at it from this angle do the Pakistanis and Scots have the same rights under the structure of the UK? Do the Scots have more of a say in the running and future of the UK than the Pakistanis? Have the Scots owned land for hundreds of years in the UK in comparision to the Pakistanis? there is a vast difference its really where you place the TCs, do you see us more like the Scots even though our land rights were scattered all over the island the rights are still the same or do you views us like Pakistanis who assimilate in society and have to start 100 paces behind an English person to get a job let alone take part in running the country.

But VP, the Scots are called Scots because they originate from Scotland, just like the Kurds are called Kurds because they originate from Kurdistan! You TCs are not called TCs because you originate from Turkishcypriot land, because such a region or territory doesn’t exist in Cyprus! If it does, where is it on the map?

For all its worth and for the sake of the parallelism you wish to make, I will accept you should have as many rights as the Kurds of Turkey have, even though -unlike you TCs, they have their own territories (Kurdistan) for thousands of years before Turks appeared in this part of the world! Deal?

Are Americans originate from the USA??

Deal! Let's have a solution just like the USA model! I am all for it!

VP, do you accept the US model that karma referred to, and indirectly recommended?

Now you 2 will start fighting for who is gona have California and who Tenesse..
Plz dont involve any Bush in this case..

Why fight? Does the US model say that California belongs to the Afro-Americans and Tennessee to the Anglo-Saxon Americans? We either accept the American federation model, or we do not accept it!

[karma]

Can you also answer the following question, if GCs represent the English then who do the TCs represent in the UK? The Pakistanis or the Scottish?

If you refer to the UK, neither the GCs can be paralleled with the English, nor the TCs with the Scottish! The English originate from England, the Scottish from Scotland! In Cyprus there is no area called the Greekcypriotland, for the GCs to originate from, neither there is an area called the Turkishcypriotland!

What we have in Cyprus is an illegal invasion by Turkey, a foreign country, an ethnic cleansing of GCs from the north part of Cyprus by Turkey and an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey! Absolutely no relationship with your Scotland vs. England nonsense!

There is a parallel it just does not serve your purpose look at it from this angle do the Pakistanis and Scots have the same rights under the structure of the UK? Do the Scots have more of a say in the running and future of the UK than the Pakistanis? Have the Scots owned land for hundreds of years in the UK in comparision to the Pakistanis? there is a vast difference its really where you place the TCs, do you see us more like the Scots even though our land rights were scattered all over the island the rights are still the same or do you views us like Pakistanis who assimilate in society and have to start 100 paces behind an English person to get a job let alone take part in running the country.

But VP, the Scots are called Scots because they originate from Scotland, just like the Kurds are called Kurds because they originate from Kurdistan! You TCs are not called TCs because you originate from Turkishcypriot land, because such a region or territory doesn’t exist in Cyprus! If it does, where is it on the map?

For all its worth and for the sake of the parallelism you wish to make, I will accept you should have as many rights as the Kurds of Turkey have, even though -unlike you TCs, they have their own territories (Kurdistan) for thousands of years before Turks appeared in this part of the world! Deal?

Are Americans originate from the USA??

Deal! Let's have a solution just like the USA model! I am all for it!

VP, do you accept the US model that karma referred to, and indirectly recommended?

Now you 2 will start fighting for who is gona have California and who Tenesse..
Plz dont involve any Bush in this case..

Why fight? Does the US model say that California belongs to the Afro-Americans and Tennessee to the Anglo-Saxon Americans? We either accept the American federation model, or we do not accept it!

It may work there coz they dont have Turkish, Greek or Cypriots brains..
They r not ruled by an army or a church..

[denizaksulu]

VPs and Kifeas' very thought provoking discussion is making me pose another question. With all the brits buying up land left right and centre, North and South, are they also going to be co-owners of Cyprus. Do the Residents in the UK "OWN" the UK? I think not . But on paper they have equal rights in running the place, theoretically.
Interesting debate, but the question asked was badly worded, it could have been made clearer to avoid ambiguity.
Regards
DA

[Viewpoint]

VP, do you agree that a partition deal can only be possible if the TC community decides so in a referendum, and then you choose a territory portion equal to the demographical ratio, i.e. 82:18 percent, minus the whatever percentage of TCs will choose to remain RoC citizens and stay within the areas under RoC control?

I agree Kifeas but show me an example where the land distribution was decided in relation to the population distribution, also kindly allow for GCs who will not sell their land and will want to return to the TRNC. Do you believe that all GCs will sell up in the area desginated the TC state? I doubt this very much if you are any eaxmple to go by longing to return to your ancestral lands.

On what basis then it should be decided, VP? On the basis of the ottoman laws of Lala Mustafa Pasha, or on the basis of the Islamic "kismet," or on the basis of your father's law which says that "one Turk equals the whole world?"

ON the basis od Bizonal Bicommunal Federation with Political Equality on a 29% 71% split where everyone can decide which state they wish to reside in accepting that the the north will be run by TCs and south by GCs. With a revised property proposal for refugees with land return where posssible and current value compensation deals.

You mean I suppose like the Annan plan "solution," but with even worst property provisions for the GCs!

And why should we accept a 70:30 split, if you do not accept that we should not be treated like second class citizens if we choose to reside in the north, just like you have meant to do with the Annan plan? Why should you TCs, the 18%, rule the 30% of Cyprus? Is it because it is your "kismet?"

The 30% will contain GCs as well so allowance has to be made for their return and as for being second class citizens you can feel secure knowing that Federal law which will be above the local laws plus we can review to have corresponding laws on both sides, we willnot object to demanding we dsing the Greek national anthem if we want to become residents of the south

VP, I do not care if you do not mind singing the Greek National anthem if you want to become resident of the south! What I care is to have the right to sing the Greek national anthem in my home town Kyrenia, if I so wish, and not to have to sing the Turkish national anthem, again in my home town Kyrenia, if I do not wish to! I do not care if you do not care or wish to have any cultural rights if you want to settle in the south, presumably because you have no culture to show in the first place! What I care is to have and enjoy my cultural rights in my home town Kyrenia, where my ancestors existed for thousands of years before you even appeared in Cyprus! Do you get it!

I dont personally have a problem with that, you can sing what you wish but I dont think it will be as rigid as you wish to make out it will, it appears to me you want to go backwards instead of forwards, you really have to come to terms with the fact that everything has changed and that it wiill never be as it was. The provision for equality were again quoted to you by londonbıy74 why do you choose to ignore them, even today the Brits exercise their culture in the north like drinking beer and having all British gatherings to celebrate their own customs and traditions.

But, VP, the British are immigrants in Cyprus! We GCs are not immigrants in the north! We are part (the largest one) of the indigenous people of this area! We are citizens of this country!

Nevertheless, if you remember it, in the Annan plan's constitution of the "TCCS," you said we have no rights in the north, we do belong to the north, we should not be allowed to have education in our language, we should not have the right to cultural or religious freedom, and we should not have political rights if we do not learn Turkish, plus we should take an oath to protect the name and the "principles" of the Turks father, Mustafa Kemal! Did you forget all these? Did you forget that you wanted to convert us into second class citizens, just like your motherland treats the Kurds!

Kifeas I truly do not recall ever having claimed what you are saying could you have me mixed up with someone else? (any links). The British are at the moment residents in the TRNC which is not under EU control and they are free to express themselves and practice their religion and culture. In a BBF under the EU lets just agree that we TCs would allow you to practice your culture and religion and seeing the Education system would be under the Federal Government I am 100% certain Greek will be taught in the north just as much as Turkish will be in the south.

Why are you so afraid? you have no problems coaxing me into a state with 80% GCs deciding everything on my behalf but when the tables are turned you appear to reject this idea. Why is that?

[Kifeas]

It may work there coz they dont have Turkish, Greek or Cypriots brains..
They r not ruled by an army or a church..

Who is ruled by the Church?

What's wrong with Cypriot brains?

[miltiades]

miltiades before responding to your post, you yet again accuse me of being stupid I warned you to refrain from this as it was not how we should address each other as it is does not encourage the right quality of debate, either you apologise and stop doing this or I will be forced to respond in the following manner.... who the fucking hell do you think you are you bastard scum bag of a moron.

The choice is yours.

What I said is the following:
"""""VP , are you playing stupid or are you stupid. """

You respond in a way that tells me exactly what you are !!
In all of my 2600 posts I never once called you this filthy names , I questioned your mental state I did not imply that you are Stupid , but obviously I must have hit a sensitive nerve to get the response that you gave. Never mind VP , your true colours were known long ago by most on this forum. Let me pose the question once more . VP, are you stupid or just plain vulgar ?

Stop playing the virgin and look back at your own posts, your scarcasm and verbal insults are all over them I politely warned you to stop this as it lowers the tone of the forum but unfortunately you chose to ignore this and therefore warrant the above if you continue then I can produce a lot worse when provoked, keep a civil tongue and you will get the same kind of civil response.

You were a loser in the UK , that is the reason that you emigrated to Cyprus. You are full of shit and no brains so go to hell Mr Vulgar mouth ,
and learn how to behave properly without using obscenities.

[Viewpoint]

So whats the GCs take on this do they see us as equal owners of Cyprus (not land) or not? If not then why have 2 referendums? obviously there are 2 sides...are they equal? obviously we must be because our yes or no havd just as much weight as yours.

[Viewpoint]

miltiades before responding to your post, you yet again accuse me of being stupid I warned you to refrain from this as it was not how we should address each other as it is does not encourage the right quality of debate, either you apologise and stop doing this or I will be forced to respond in the following manner.... who the fucking hell do you think you are you bastard scum bag of a moron.

The choice is yours.

What I said is the following:
"""""VP , are you playing stupid or are you stupid. """

You respond in a way that tells me exactly what you are !!
In all of my 2600 posts I never once called you this filthy names , I questioned your mental state I did not imply that you are Stupid , but obviously I must have hit a sensitive nerve to get the response that you gave. Never mind VP , your true colours were known long ago by most on this forum. Let me pose the question once more . VP, are you stupid or just plain vulgar ?

Stop playing the virgin and look back at your own posts, your scarcasm and verbal insults are all over them I politely warned you to stop this as it lowers the tone of the forum but unfortunately you chose to ignore this and therefore warrant the above if you continue then I can produce a lot worse when provoked, keep a civil tongue and you will get the same kind of civil response.

You were a loser in the UK , that is the reason that you emigrated to Cyprus. You are full of shit and no brains so go to hell Mr Vulgar mouth ,
and learn how to behave properly without using obscenities.

Whats the matter Mr El Greco not happy taking some of your own medicine, can see you are practicing your fictisious love for all TCs what a load of tripe, I warned you many times politely not to push your scarcasm and verbal insults or I will respond in kind but being so thick skinned you continued. Stop and I will stop as well but for now I will get worse as and when I see fit knuckle head.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas I truly do not recall ever having claimed what you are saying could you have me mixed up with someone else? (any links).

By you I mean both you in singular and plural (TC community!) Doesn't your leadership want to treat the GCs as second class citizens in their own country, i.e. only to pay taxes to the "TCCS," but have no equal rights with the other citizens of TC origin? If not, why did they pay vagabond Kofi Annan to draft this constitution? Why did they pay Verheugen to try and cheat on the GCs in convincing them to say "yes" to the Annan plan? Didn't you say in another thread that you want to live in your "own" state without listening to any Greek language around you? You want me to find the post in which you said this?

In a BBF under the EU lets just agree that we TCs would allow you to practice your culture and religion and seeing the Education system would be under the Federal Government I am 100% certain Greek will be taught in the north just as much as Turkish will be in the south.

Therefore you now agree that this rubbish constitution that Kofi Annan and De Soto had prepared for you should be trashed in the bin! Aren’t you?

If so, why then did you draft it in the first place?

Why are you so afraid? you have no problems coaxing me into a state with 80% GCs deciding everything on my behalf but when the tables are turned you appear to reject this idea. Why is that?

But VP, when and where have I or any other GC ever said that we do not want or accept that you shouldn't have any human, political, religious, cultural and educational rights anywhere in Cyprus, similar to what you have tried to enforce on us in the 30% of our country?

[denizaksulu]

It saddens me deeply to see obviously two intelligent forum members loosing their cool. What will it be next. Hand bags at dawn. Come on now both your posts are intelligent, valuable and informing, we are human and are allowed difference of opinions. Stay calm and let us all enjoy the forum without the scatology getting the better of you. And what for? Palestinians. Lets eat the Pilaff/pilav which is in front of us!