Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

VP, do you agree that a partition deal can only be possible if the TC community decides so in a referendum, and then you choose a territory portion equal to the demographical ratio, i.e. 82:18 percent, minus the whatever percentage of TCs will choose to remain RoC citizens and stay within the areas under RoC control?

I agree Kifeas but show me an example where the land distribution was decided in relation to the population distribution, also kindly allow for GCs who will not sell their land and will want to return to the TRNC. Do you believe that all GCs will sell up in the area desginated the TC state? I doubt this very much if you are any eaxmple to go by longing to return to your ancestral lands.

On what basis then it should be decided, VP? On the basis of the ottoman laws of Lala Mustafa Pasha, or on the basis of the Islamic "kismet," or on the basis of your father's law which says that "one Turk equals the whole world?"

ON the basis od Bizonal Bicommunal Federation with Political Equality on a 29% 71% split where everyone can decide which state they wish to reside in accepting that the the north will be run by TCs and south by GCs. With a revised property proposal for refugees with land return where posssible and current value compensation deals.

You mean I suppose like the Annan plan "solution," but with even worst property provisions for the GCs!

And why should we accept a 70:30 split, if you do not accept that we should not be treated like second class citizens if we choose to reside in the north, just like you have meant to do with the Annan plan? Why should you TCs, the 18%, rule the 30% of Cyprus? Is it because it is your "kismet?"

The 30% will contain GCs as well so allowance has to be made for their return and as for being second class citizens you can feel secure knowing that Federal law which will be above the local laws plus we can review to have corresponding laws on both sides, we willnot object to demanding we dsing the Greek national anthem if we want to become residents of the south

[Kifeas]

Can you also answer the following question, if GCs represent the English then who do the TCs represent in the UK? The Pakistanis or the Scottish?

If you refer to the UK, neither the GCs can be paralleled with the English, nor the TCs with the Scottish! The English originate from England, the Scottish from Scotland! In Cyprus there is no area called the Greekcypriotland, for the GCs to originate from, neither there is an area called the Turkishcypriotland!

What we have in Cyprus is an illegal invasion by Turkey, a foreign country, an ethnic cleansing of GCs from the north part of Cyprus by Turkey and an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey! Absolutely no relationship with your Scotland vs. England nonsense!

There is a parallel it just does not serve your purpose look at it from this angle do the Pakistanis and Scots have the same rights under the structure of the UK? Do the Scots have more of a say in the running and future of the UK than the Pakistanis? Have the Scots owned land for hundreds of years in the UK in comparision to the Pakistanis? there is a vast difference its really where you place the TCs, do you see us more like the Scots even though our land rights were scattered all over the island the rights are still the same or do you views us like Pakistanis who assimilate in society and have to start 100 paces behind an English person to get a job let alone take part in running the country.

But VP, the Scots are called Scots because they originate from Scotland, just like the Kurds are called Kurds because they originate from Kurdistan! You TCs are not called TCs because you originate from Turkishcypriot land, because such a region or territory doesn’t exist in Cyprus! If it does, where is it on the map?

For all its worth and for the sake of the parallelism you wish to make, I will accept you should have as many rights as the Kurds of Turkey have, even though -unlike you TCs, they have their own territories (Kurdistan) for thousands of years before Turks appeared in this part of the world! Deal?

[Viewpoint]

Can you also answer the following question, if GCs represent the English then who do the TCs represent in the UK? The Pakistanis or the Scottish?

If you refer to the UK, neither the GCs can be paralleled with the English, nor the TCs with the Scottish! The English originate from England, the Scottish from Scotland! In Cyprus there is no area called the Greekcypriotland, for the GCs to originate from, neither there is an area called the Turkishcypriotland!

What we have in Cyprus is an illegal invasion by Turkey, a foreign country, an ethnic cleansing of GCs from the north part of Cyprus by Turkey and an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey! Absolutely no relationship with your Scotland vs. England nonsense!

There is a parallel it just does not serve your purpose look at it from this angle do the Pakistanis and Scots have the same rights under the structure of the UK? Do the Scots have more of a say in the running and future of the UK than the Pakistanis? Have the Scots owned land for hundreds of years in the UK in comparision to the Pakistanis? there is a vast difference its really where you place the TCs, do you see us more like the Scots even though our land rights were scattered all over the island the rights are still the same or do you views us like Pakistanis who assimilate in society and have to start 100 paces behind an English person to get a job let alone take part in running the country.

But VP, the Scots are called Scots because they originate from Scotland, just like the Kurds are called Kurds because they originate from Kurdistan! You TCs are not called TCs because you originate from Turkishcypriot land, because such a region or territory doesn’t exist in Cyprus! If it does, where is it on the map?

For all its worth and for the sake of the parallelism you wish to make, I will accept you should have as many rights as the Kurds of Turkey have, even though -unlike you TCs, they have their own territories (Kurdistan) for thousands of years before Turks appeared in this part of the world! Deal?

Your also conveniently forget that we also once owned the whole of Cyprus for a good many years. Kifeas my point is we cannot be just regarded like the Pakstanis in the UK we to want a balance arrangement where we have a say in our own future and where we can have the choice to live in our own state under a BBF.

[Kifeas]

VP, do you agree that a partition deal can only be possible if the TC community decides so in a referendum, and then you choose a territory portion equal to the demographical ratio, i.e. 82:18 percent, minus the whatever percentage of TCs will choose to remain RoC citizens and stay within the areas under RoC control?

I agree Kifeas but show me an example where the land distribution was decided in relation to the population distribution, also kindly allow for GCs who will not sell their land and will want to return to the TRNC. Do you believe that all GCs will sell up in the area desginated the TC state? I doubt this very much if you are any eaxmple to go by longing to return to your ancestral lands.

On what basis then it should be decided, VP? On the basis of the ottoman laws of Lala Mustafa Pasha, or on the basis of the Islamic "kismet," or on the basis of your father's law which says that "one Turk equals the whole world?"

ON the basis od Bizonal Bicommunal Federation with Political Equality on a 29% 71% split where everyone can decide which state they wish to reside in accepting that the the north will be run by TCs and south by GCs. With a revised property proposal for refugees with land return where posssible and current value compensation deals.

You mean I suppose like the Annan plan "solution," but with even worst property provisions for the GCs!

And why should we accept a 70:30 split, if you do not accept that we should not be treated like second class citizens if we choose to reside in the north, just like you have meant to do with the Annan plan? Why should you TCs, the 18%, rule the 30% of Cyprus? Is it because it is your "kismet?"

The 30% will contain GCs as well so allowance has to be made for their return and as for being second class citizens you can feel secure knowing that Federal law which will be above the local laws plus we can review to have corresponding laws on both sides, we willnot object to demanding we dsing the Greek national anthem if we want to become residents of the south

VP, I do not care if you do not mind singing the Greek National anthem if you want to become resident of the south! What I care is to have the right to sing the Greek national anthem in my home town Kyrenia, if I so wish, and not to have to sing the Turkish national anthem, again in my home town Kyrenia, if I do not wish to! I do not care if you do not care or wish to have any cultural rights if you want to settle in the south, presumably because you have no culture to show in the first place! What I care is to have and enjoy my cultural rights in my home town Kyrenia, where my ancestors existed for thousands of years before you even appeared in Cyprus! Do you get it!

[karma]

Can you also answer the following question, if GCs represent the English then who do the TCs represent in the UK? The Pakistanis or the Scottish?

If you refer to the UK, neither the GCs can be paralleled with the English, nor the TCs with the Scottish! The English originate from England, the Scottish from Scotland! In Cyprus there is no area called the Greekcypriotland, for the GCs to originate from, neither there is an area called the Turkishcypriotland!

What we have in Cyprus is an illegal invasion by Turkey, a foreign country, an ethnic cleansing of GCs from the north part of Cyprus by Turkey and an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey! Absolutely no relationship with your Scotland vs. England nonsense!

There is a parallel it just does not serve your purpose look at it from this angle do the Pakistanis and Scots have the same rights under the structure of the UK? Do the Scots have more of a say in the running and future of the UK than the Pakistanis? Have the Scots owned land for hundreds of years in the UK in comparision to the Pakistanis? there is a vast difference its really where you place the TCs, do you see us more like the Scots even though our land rights were scattered all over the island the rights are still the same or do you views us like Pakistanis who assimilate in society and have to start 100 paces behind an English person to get a job let alone take part in running the country.

But VP, the Scots are called Scots because they originate from Scotland, just like the Kurds are called Kurds because they originate from Kurdistan! You TCs are not called TCs because you originate from Turkishcypriot land, because such a region or territory doesn’t exist in Cyprus! If it does, where is it on the map?

For all its worth and for the sake of the parallelism you wish to make, I will accept you should have as many rights as the Kurds of Turkey have, even though -unlike you TCs, they have their own territories (Kurdistan) for thousands of years before Turks appeared in this part of the world! Deal?

Are Americans originate from the USA??

[Kifeas]

Can you also answer the following question, if GCs represent the English then who do the TCs represent in the UK? The Pakistanis or the Scottish?

If you refer to the UK, neither the GCs can be paralleled with the English, nor the TCs with the Scottish! The English originate from England, the Scottish from Scotland! In Cyprus there is no area called the Greekcypriotland, for the GCs to originate from, neither there is an area called the Turkishcypriotland!

What we have in Cyprus is an illegal invasion by Turkey, a foreign country, an ethnic cleansing of GCs from the north part of Cyprus by Turkey and an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey! Absolutely no relationship with your Scotland vs. England nonsense!

There is a parallel it just does not serve your purpose look at it from this angle do the Pakistanis and Scots have the same rights under the structure of the UK? Do the Scots have more of a say in the running and future of the UK than the Pakistanis? Have the Scots owned land for hundreds of years in the UK in comparision to the Pakistanis? there is a vast difference its really where you place the TCs, do you see us more like the Scots even though our land rights were scattered all over the island the rights are still the same or do you views us like Pakistanis who assimilate in society and have to start 100 paces behind an English person to get a job let alone take part in running the country.

But VP, the Scots are called Scots because they originate from Scotland, just like the Kurds are called Kurds because they originate from Kurdistan! You TCs are not called TCs because you originate from Turkishcypriot land, because such a region or territory doesn’t exist in Cyprus! If it does, where is it on the map?

For all its worth and for the sake of the parallelism you wish to make, I will accept you should have as many rights as the Kurds of Turkey have, even though -unlike you TCs, they have their own territories (Kurdistan) for thousands of years before Turks appeared in this part of the world! Deal?

Your also conveniently forget that we also once owned the whole of Cyprus for a good many years. Kifeas my point is we cannot be just regarded like the Pakstanis in the UK we to want a balance arrangement where we have a say in our own future and where we can have the choice to live in our own state under a BBF.

You owned the whole of Cyprus? When did this happened, that I am not aware of? As far as I know, you never owned any part of Cyprus, set aside the whole of it for many good years!

[Kifeas]

Can you also answer the following question, if GCs represent the English then who do the TCs represent in the UK? The Pakistanis or the Scottish?

If you refer to the UK, neither the GCs can be paralleled with the English, nor the TCs with the Scottish! The English originate from England, the Scottish from Scotland! In Cyprus there is no area called the Greekcypriotland, for the GCs to originate from, neither there is an area called the Turkishcypriotland!

What we have in Cyprus is an illegal invasion by Turkey, a foreign country, an ethnic cleansing of GCs from the north part of Cyprus by Turkey and an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey! Absolutely no relationship with your Scotland vs. England nonsense!

There is a parallel it just does not serve your purpose look at it from this angle do the Pakistanis and Scots have the same rights under the structure of the UK? Do the Scots have more of a say in the running and future of the UK than the Pakistanis? Have the Scots owned land for hundreds of years in the UK in comparision to the Pakistanis? there is a vast difference its really where you place the TCs, do you see us more like the Scots even though our land rights were scattered all over the island the rights are still the same or do you views us like Pakistanis who assimilate in society and have to start 100 paces behind an English person to get a job let alone take part in running the country.

But VP, the Scots are called Scots because they originate from Scotland, just like the Kurds are called Kurds because they originate from Kurdistan! You TCs are not called TCs because you originate from Turkishcypriot land, because such a region or territory doesn’t exist in Cyprus! If it does, where is it on the map?

For all its worth and for the sake of the parallelism you wish to make, I will accept you should have as many rights as the Kurds of Turkey have, even though -unlike you TCs, they have their own territories (Kurdistan) for thousands of years before Turks appeared in this part of the world! Deal?

Are Americans originate from the USA??

Deal! Let's have a solution just like the USA model! I am all for it!

VP, do you accept the US model that karma referred to, and indirectly recommended?

[Viewpoint]

VP, do you agree that a partition deal can only be possible if the TC community decides so in a referendum, and then you choose a territory portion equal to the demographical ratio, i.e. 82:18 percent, minus the whatever percentage of TCs will choose to remain RoC citizens and stay within the areas under RoC control?

I agree Kifeas but show me an example where the land distribution was decided in relation to the population distribution, also kindly allow for GCs who will not sell their land and will want to return to the TRNC. Do you believe that all GCs will sell up in the area desginated the TC state? I doubt this very much if you are any eaxmple to go by longing to return to your ancestral lands.

On what basis then it should be decided, VP? On the basis of the ottoman laws of Lala Mustafa Pasha, or on the basis of the Islamic "kismet," or on the basis of your father's law which says that "one Turk equals the whole world?"

ON the basis od Bizonal Bicommunal Federation with Political Equality on a 29% 71% split where everyone can decide which state they wish to reside in accepting that the the north will be run by TCs and south by GCs. With a revised property proposal for refugees with land return where posssible and current value compensation deals.

You mean I suppose like the Annan plan "solution," but with even worst property provisions for the GCs!

And why should we accept a 70:30 split, if you do not accept that we should not be treated like second class citizens if we choose to reside in the north, just like you have meant to do with the Annan plan? Why should you TCs, the 18%, rule the 30% of Cyprus? Is it because it is your "kismet?"

The 30% will contain GCs as well so allowance has to be made for their return and as for being second class citizens you can feel secure knowing that Federal law which will be above the local laws plus we can review to have corresponding laws on both sides, we willnot object to demanding we dsing the Greek national anthem if we want to become residents of the south

VP, I do not care if you do not mind singing the Greek National anthem if you want to become resident of the south! What I care is to have the right to sing the Greek national anthem in my home town Kyrenia, if I so wish, and not to have to sing the Turkish national anthem, again in my home town Kyrenia, if I do not wish to! I do not care if you do not care or wish to have any cultural rights if you want to settle in the south, presumably because you have no culture to show in the first place! What I care is to have and enjoy my cultural rights in my home town Kyrenia, where my ancestors existed for thousands of years before you even appeared in Cyprus! Do you get it!

I dont personally have a problem with that, you can sing what you wish but I dont think it will be as rigid as you wish to make out it will, it appears to me you want to go backwards instead of forwards, you really have to come to terms with the fact that everything has changed and that it wiill never be as it was. The provision for equality were again quoted to you by londonbıy74 why do you choose to ignore them, even today the Brits exercise their culture in the north like drinking beer and having all British gatherings to celebrate their own customs and traditions.

[karma]

Can you also answer the following question, if GCs represent the English then who do the TCs represent in the UK? The Pakistanis or the Scottish?

If you refer to the UK, neither the GCs can be paralleled with the English, nor the TCs with the Scottish! The English originate from England, the Scottish from Scotland! In Cyprus there is no area called the Greekcypriotland, for the GCs to originate from, neither there is an area called the Turkishcypriotland!

What we have in Cyprus is an illegal invasion by Turkey, a foreign country, an ethnic cleansing of GCs from the north part of Cyprus by Turkey and an illegal occupation of 37% of Cyprus by Turkey! Absolutely no relationship with your Scotland vs. England nonsense!

There is a parallel it just does not serve your purpose look at it from this angle do the Pakistanis and Scots have the same rights under the structure of the UK? Do the Scots have more of a say in the running and future of the UK than the Pakistanis? Have the Scots owned land for hundreds of years in the UK in comparision to the Pakistanis? there is a vast difference its really where you place the TCs, do you see us more like the Scots even though our land rights were scattered all over the island the rights are still the same or do you views us like Pakistanis who assimilate in society and have to start 100 paces behind an English person to get a job let alone take part in running the country.

But VP, the Scots are called Scots because they originate from Scotland, just like the Kurds are called Kurds because they originate from Kurdistan! You TCs are not called TCs because you originate from Turkishcypriot land, because such a region or territory doesn’t exist in Cyprus! If it does, where is it on the map?

For all its worth and for the sake of the parallelism you wish to make, I will accept you should have as many rights as the Kurds of Turkey have, even though -unlike you TCs, they have their own territories (Kurdistan) for thousands of years before Turks appeared in this part of the world! Deal?

Are Americans originate from the USA??

Deal! Let's have a solution just like the USA model! I am all for it!

VP, do you accept the US model that karma referred to, and indirectly recommended?

Now you 2 will start fighting for who is gona have California and who Tenesse..
Plz dont involve any Bush in this case..

[Kifeas]

VP, do you agree that a partition deal can only be possible if the TC community decides so in a referendum, and then you choose a territory portion equal to the demographical ratio, i.e. 82:18 percent, minus the whatever percentage of TCs will choose to remain RoC citizens and stay within the areas under RoC control?

I agree Kifeas but show me an example where the land distribution was decided in relation to the population distribution, also kindly allow for GCs who will not sell their land and will want to return to the TRNC. Do you believe that all GCs will sell up in the area desginated the TC state? I doubt this very much if you are any eaxmple to go by longing to return to your ancestral lands.

On what basis then it should be decided, VP? On the basis of the ottoman laws of Lala Mustafa Pasha, or on the basis of the Islamic "kismet," or on the basis of your father's law which says that "one Turk equals the whole world?"

ON the basis od Bizonal Bicommunal Federation with Political Equality on a 29% 71% split where everyone can decide which state they wish to reside in accepting that the the north will be run by TCs and south by GCs. With a revised property proposal for refugees with land return where posssible and current value compensation deals.

You mean I suppose like the Annan plan "solution," but with even worst property provisions for the GCs!

And why should we accept a 70:30 split, if you do not accept that we should not be treated like second class citizens if we choose to reside in the north, just like you have meant to do with the Annan plan? Why should you TCs, the 18%, rule the 30% of Cyprus? Is it because it is your "kismet?"

The 30% will contain GCs as well so allowance has to be made for their return and as for being second class citizens you can feel secure knowing that Federal law which will be above the local laws plus we can review to have corresponding laws on both sides, we willnot object to demanding we dsing the Greek national anthem if we want to become residents of the south

VP, I do not care if you do not mind singing the Greek National anthem if you want to become resident of the south! What I care is to have the right to sing the Greek national anthem in my home town Kyrenia, if I so wish, and not to have to sing the Turkish national anthem, again in my home town Kyrenia, if I do not wish to! I do not care if you do not care or wish to have any cultural rights if you want to settle in the south, presumably because you have no culture to show in the first place! What I care is to have and enjoy my cultural rights in my home town Kyrenia, where my ancestors existed for thousands of years before you even appeared in Cyprus! Do you get it!

I dont personally have a problem with that, you can sing what you wish but I dont think it will be as rigid as you wish to make out it will, it appears to me you want to go backwards instead of forwards, you really have to come to terms with the fact that everything has changed and that it wiill never be as it was. The provision for equality were again quoted to you by londonbıy74 why do you choose to ignore them, even today the Brits exercise their culture in the north like drinking beer and having all British gatherings to celebrate their own customs and traditions.

But, VP, the British are immigrants in Cyprus! We GCs are not immigrants in the north! We are part (the largest one) of the indigenous people of this area! We are citizens of this country!

Nevertheless, if you remember it, in the Annan plan's constitution of the "TCCS," you said we have no rights in the north, we do belong to the north, we should not be allowed to have education in our language, we should not have the right to cultural or religious freedom, and we should not have political rights if we do not learn Turkish, plus we should take an oath to protect the name and the "principles" of the Turks father, Mustafa Kemal! Did you forget all these? Did you forget that you wanted to convert us into second class citizens, just like your motherland treats the Kurds!