Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

heres someone who supports partition!!

problem is...he is greek... and not one of the respected ones...

http://news.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_art ... 007_230151

Are you teasing us unfortunates who cannot read Greek,Cypez komshu..??

The writter is an independent MP in Greece dear Birkibrisli..
He only says one thing.
"if I were a Cypriot, I would have wanted my rulers to ask me if I want re-unification or partition".

Not surpising this MP is one of the many-many clueless mainland Greeks... Not Surprising the head of the Greek state (Karamanlis) was playing tavli all day at his hotel in Burgenstock when we were getting burned during the manufacturing of the Anan Plan .

And then we have people like AlexISS wondering what's wrong with us GCs Vs the mainland greeks....

[Kikapu]

All very "pretty" but doesnt detract from the dangers of surrendering to the GCs majority without safeguards and guarantees to ensure we are treated as equals and not pushed to one side as in the past. We do not want to be forced into living in a GC state but our goal shoudl be to create a level playing field so that all Cypriots have the choice to live under which ever rule they wish be it TC in the north or GC in the south.

You really do not understand how the Federal System works, do you.??

But then again, you do know and you only want to fuck around with everyone.


In a Federal System, you are not going to have different laws in each state, that is going to make one little difference in anyone's life. In the States we have 50 States. Count them idiot, 50 States, and the lives of people living in each state is 99.9 percent same as any other, because the Rule of the Land comes from the Federal Government, where it supersedes all other state laws. So when you say people can choose to live under the GC laws or TC laws is just a bunch of shit and you know it, because neither States can have laws that will go against the Federal laws.

The kind of laws you may have that does not interfere with the Federal government for instance can be that Gambling is allowed in the TC side, or Prostitution, or opening hours for bars, or smoking or no smoking. Big fucking deal, this does not make any difference to anyone's daily life. What you want to do, is to implement Racist rules where only certain number of GC can live in the TC area, or what jobs or position they can have. You want to have "your own country rules", so that there is no protection from the Federal Government and if so, this is no longer the BBF that you are talking about, so stop talking shit as always and talk sense for a change, or else you are becoming more and more a hater of the GC's. You just want the AP back, because AP gave you what I described above, which is not a True Federation, but almost two separate countries. Forget about it already , because no Gc will go for that. Now, do you want a True Federal System or not, and stop talking about the meaningless "leveling the playing field" because the field will be level as soon as the Federal System kicks in.

So get use to the idea of having GC's and the Greek language all around you, even next door to you, since you're probably using a GC land already, where your house is built. There's no such thing as "our laws" and "their Laws" that will change anyone lives one little bit, and since being in the EU, you can't even have the "death penalty", but you can have your laws, just not aver the Federal ones.

Now go away.

[miltiades]

You tell him Kik , he is just a lost cause , no more a Cypriot than Kemal Ataturk . He has filled himself with intense hatred for the G/Cs yet he lives on an island where the overwhelming majority are G/Cs !!!

[alexISS]

The writter is an independent MP in Greece dear Birkibrisli..
He only says one thing.
"if I were a Cypriot, I would have wanted my rulers to ask me if I want re-unification or partition".

Not surpising this MP is one of the many-many clueless mainland Greeks... Not Surprising the head of the Greek state (Karamanlis) was playing tavli all day at his hotel in Burgenstock when we were getting burned during the manufacturing of the Anan Plan .

And then we have people like AlexISS wondering what's wrong with us GCs Vs the mainland greeks....

If by "you" you mean the minority of Greek Cypriots that have issues with Greeks, some of whom I've only met in this forum and not yet in person, then no, I'm not wondering. Seeing the way you judge people, I'm not wondering at all. Yes, many mainland Greeks are clueless on the Cyprus problem but, mind you, many Greek Cypriots are too. The difference is that you do not take the Greek Cypriot ignorance too seriously, while the ignorance of Greeks is to you a clear sign of indifference or even hate towards Cypriots.

You can criticise Karamanlis's stance any way you like, but the fact that he was in favour of the Annan plan does not mean he "sold you out"! Clerides and Anastasiades supported it too, but they are not "traitors" because they are Cypriots and their "loyalty" is granted?

I too believe the Annan plan was (not a good but) the best possible solution and that you should have accepted it, and I also fear that, after turning it down, a future of partition is more possible than before

[miltiades]

The writter is an independent MP in Greece dear Birkibrisli..
He only says one thing.
"if I were a Cypriot, I would have wanted my rulers to ask me if I want re-unification or partition".

Not surpising this MP is one of the many-many clueless mainland Greeks... Not Surprising the head of the Greek state (Karamanlis) was playing tavli all day at his hotel in Burgenstock when we were getting burned during the manufacturing of the Anan Plan .

And then we have people like AlexISS wondering what's wrong with us GCs Vs the mainland greeks....

If by "you" you mean the minority of Greek Cypriots that have issues with Greeks, some of whom I've only met in this forum and not yet in person, then no, I'm not wondering. Seeing the way you judge people, I'm not wondering at all. Yes, many mainland Greeks are clueless on the Cyprus problem but, mind you, many Greek Cypriots are too. The difference is that you do not take the Greek Cypriot ignorance too seriously, while the ignorance of Greeks is to you a clear sign of indifference or even hate towards Cypriots.

You can criticise Karamanlis's stance any way you like, but the fact that he was in favour of the Annan plan does not mean he "sold you out"! Clerides and Anastasiades supported it too, but they are not "traitors" because they are Cypriots and their "loyalty" is granted?

I too believe the Annan plan was (not a good but) the best possible solution and that you should have accepted it, and I also fear that, after turning it down, a future of partition is more possible than before

ALEX , I wonder what your views were on a part of the AP , which you have no doubt studied in order to consider it acceptable for the Cypriots ,
that part that dealt with police stations split 50 -50 and each allowed in the Plan to fly the Greek and Turkish flag respectively. How about the division of our roads with either side owning a specific road but with the other side having the right to construct a by- pass in order to get to a G/C or T/C destination. This from a Plan that was promoted as a unifying plan when it was nothing of the sort. Turkish troops , that are now considered Internationally to be occupying forces , were given a concrete legal status and the ultimate right to take it upon themselves without UN , EU or other directives , to interfere in any part of Cyprus that they saw fit. Thanks but no thanks. The plan was a Turkish designed and bore the hallmarks of a legal recognition of the de facto situation.
With hindsight we knew that we could not rely on any one to oppose Turkey should Turkey not willing to honour its part of the agreement.

I opposed the AP because it fell way way short of the ultimate dream that Cypriots have of a united Independent Cyprus, member of the EU .

[alexISS]

ALEX , I wonder what your views were on a part of the AP , which you have no doubt studied in order to consider it acceptable for the Cypriots ,
that part that dealt with police stations split 50 -50 and each allowed in the Plan to fly the Greek and Turkish flag respectively. How about the division of our roads with either side owning a specific road but with the other side having the right to construct a by- pass in order to get to a G/C or T/C destination. This from a Plan that was promoted as a unifying plan when it was nothing of the sort. Turkish troops , that are now considered Internationally to be occupying forces , were given a concrete legal status and the ultimate right to take it upon themselves without UN , EU or other directives , to interfere in any part of Cyprus that they saw fit. Thanks but no thanks. The plan was a Turkish designed and bore the hallmarks of a legal recognition of the de facto situation.
With hindsight we knew that we could not rely on any one to oppose Turkey should Turkey not willing to honour its part of the agreement.

I opposed the AP because it fell way way short of the ultimate dream that Cypriots have of a united Independent Cyprus, member of the EU .

You do not have to point the plan's shortcomings, I know there are many. I also know it was not a unification plan, but it was close. You cannot force true unification to people that do not want it and you cannot force people that want to unify to be separated. The Annan plan was the only one that had some chance for success and, if the people would feel comfortable enough after some time, its shortcomings could be amended. The Turkish troops would be gradually withdrawn and Turkey would have no say in the future of an EU country, no matter what.

I would like to ask this: Do you feel that, after the rejection of the plan, the future looks brighter for Cyprus? Because what I feel is that NOW Turkey has more chances for a de facto recognition of the "TRNC" than ever, the world does not see the Greek Cypriots as victims of an invasion anymore, but as spoilt rich people who do not want to share their wealth with their "isolated" Turkish countrymen

[miltiades]

ALEX , I wonder what your views were on a part of the AP , which you have no doubt studied in order to consider it acceptable for the Cypriots ,
that part that dealt with police stations split 50 -50 and each allowed in the Plan to fly the Greek and Turkish flag respectively. How about the division of our roads with either side owning a specific road but with the other side having the right to construct a by- pass in order to get to a G/C or T/C destination. This from a Plan that was promoted as a unifying plan when it was nothing of the sort. Turkish troops , that are now considered Internationally to be occupying forces , were given a concrete legal status and the ultimate right to take it upon themselves without UN , EU or other directives , to interfere in any part of Cyprus that they saw fit. Thanks but no thanks. The plan was a Turkish designed and bore the hallmarks of a legal recognition of the de facto situation.
With hindsight we knew that we could not rely on any one to oppose Turkey should Turkey not willing to honour its part of the agreement.

I opposed the AP because it fell way way short of the ultimate dream that Cypriots have of a united Independent Cyprus, member of the EU .

You do not have to point the plan's shortcomings, I know there are many. I also know it was not a unification plan, but it was close. You cannot force true unification to people that do not want it and you cannot force people that want to unify to be separated. The Annan plan was the only one that had some chance for success and, if the people would feel comfortable enough after some time, its shortcomings could be amended. The Turkish troops would be gradually withdrawn and Turkey would have no say in the future of an EU country, no matter what.

I would like to ask this: Do you feel that, after the rejection of the plan, the future looks brighter for Cyprus? Because what I feel is that NOW Turkey has more chances for a de facto recognition of the "TRNC" than ever, the world does not see the Greek Cypriots as victims of an invasion anymore, but as spoilt rich people who do not want to share their wealth with their "isolated" Turkish countrymen

Let me vehemently disagree with your assertion that the "TRNC" is close now than ever before , in obtaining recognition . The International community will abide by the rule of law , the RoC is the only recognised government of Cyprus and sooner rather than later new efforts to unite our island will be actioned upon. The recognition that our T/Cs are isolated and not involved in the general prosperity of Cyprus is entirely acceptable by all . Cyprus is not just for today but it is for the future also and that is the reason why our prime considerations must be to remove any possibility of future conflict that would have been inevitable had the AP plan succeeded. For any solution to be successful and long lasting the majorities on both sides must feel comfortable with the contents.

The prime negatives in the Cyprob are the perceived "motherlands" without whom all Cypriots would soon begin the process of reconciliation. I have not met or even spoken on the phone to Bitkibrisly , have only spoken to Kikapu once on the phone , have met and spoken to mrfromng many times , all these three are T/Cs , but all three consider me one of them , a Cypriot , a G/C .

[Kifeas]

I would like to ask this: Do you feel that, after the rejection of the plan, the future looks brighter for Cyprus?

Yes, the future looks brighter now, simply because little Cyprus that used to be the "klotsoskoufi" of the international community, with no real political leverage and power in the international affairs, and which no one thought of ever taking seriously -set aside deal with its problem in front of the Turkish political displacement due to size and US backing; is now a full time EU member with veto rights in its decision making process, equal to those that some of the words superpowers enjoy (UK, France and Germany,) and a country that inevitably at least the EU and its member states have to regard as their partner! In comparison to what we used to be before EU accession, in terms of international political displacement (i.e. a "klotsoskoufi,) with what we have politically become after EU accession, it is like the difference between the moon and the sun, or between day and night!

Because what I feel is that NOW Turkey has more chances for a de facto recognition of the "TRNC" than ever, the world does not see the Greek Cypriots as victims of an invasion anymore, but as spoilt rich people who do not want to share their wealth with their "isolated" Turkish countrymen

And what have we gained or achieved all these years that were seen as the victims of an invasion? Whatever we have gained all these 30 years that we were seen as the victims (i.e. nothing,) is exactly what the TCs will gain now for been seen as the victims (nothing!)

[Viewpoint]

ALEX , I wonder what your views were on a part of the AP , which you have no doubt studied in order to consider it acceptable for the Cypriots ,
that part that dealt with police stations split 50 -50 and each allowed in the Plan to fly the Greek and Turkish flag respectively. How about the division of our roads with either side owning a specific road but with the other side having the right to construct a by- pass in order to get to a G/C or T/C destination. This from a Plan that was promoted as a unifying plan when it was nothing of the sort. Turkish troops , that are now considered Internationally to be occupying forces , were given a concrete legal status and the ultimate right to take it upon themselves without UN , EU or other directives , to interfere in any part of Cyprus that they saw fit. Thanks but no thanks. The plan was a Turkish designed and bore the hallmarks of a legal recognition of the de facto situation.
With hindsight we knew that we could not rely on any one to oppose Turkey should Turkey not willing to honour its part of the agreement.

I opposed the AP because it fell way way short of the ultimate dream that Cypriots have of a united Independent Cyprus, member of the EU .

You do not have to point the plan's shortcomings, I know there are many. I also know it was not a unification plan, but it was close. You cannot force true unification to people that do not want it and you cannot force people that want to unify to be separated. The Annan plan was the only one that had some chance for success and, if the people would feel comfortable enough after some time, its shortcomings could be amended. The Turkish troops would be gradually withdrawn and Turkey would have no say in the future of an EU country, no matter what.

I would like to ask this: Do you feel that, after the rejection of the plan, the future looks brighter for Cyprus? Because what I feel is that NOW Turkey has more chances for a de facto recognition of the "TRNC" than ever, the world does not see the Greek Cypriots as victims of an invasion anymore, but as spoilt rich people who do not want to share their wealth with their "isolated" Turkish countrymen

I applaud your bravery for calling a spade a spade in the face of people who will always vehemently disagree when anything that does not fit in with their own ideology rears it head. Well done it gives me hope that others will also see the realities which face them everyday because there are so many people who continue to bury their heads in the sand and refuse to see where this issue is going, just like 1963 to 1974...the same stubborn, over confident and spoilt mentality prevails today.

[cypezokyli]

And what have we gained or achieved all these years that were seen as the victims of an invasion? Whatever we have gained all these 30 years that we were seen as the victims (i.e. nothing,) is exactly what the TCs will gain now for been seen as the victims (nothing!)

ofcource we did !!!
we gained our entrance to EU !!
which according to you, is our biggest advantage.

and this was only possible with greece to our side, a gc moderate leader (and not a victim-like) and a tc extremist leader.

moderation pays of, and it did pay of so long we used it.
now tcs are using it, and sooner or later they will gain from it.