Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Its just not enough saying your administration is not doing enough even the Gc refugess have become passified still swallowing the same old lies that they will all go home if they hold on.....

You have a GC state without having to share politcal power which Gc administration in their rigth minds would commit suicide and make compromises on the Cyprus issue, all they have to do is keep the Gc refugees subdued and they are on a winner, cant you see this.

I was trying to refer to the fact that if you believe that all those things are going on in the north then you ar enot to concerned that you will have no one to negotiate with in the future and that your neighbour is already Turkey, by doing nothing like prtesting or voting out ex eoka men then you are ahppy with the status quo.

not really vp. I see what your trying to say but its not what i meant.

I'm saying that the biggest loser from not solving this issue will be the TC people. Not the GC's (who have already lost everything and had to start again) not Turkey and not Greece.

There can be no bigger loss than evaporating from the face of this earth as a community. People will be reading about this TC community in history books like the extinct dodo.

My point is you should be more frightened of the status quo than we should.

But you are forgetting, my dear DT,that the TC culture and identity will survive in the GCs... for as long as GCs exist in this world...

You're on a roll Bir! It's a concept I tried to explain in the past somewhere but it didn't seem like anyone understood it at the time.

The TCs will understand it when it is too late,GR...And some GCs will probably never understand...

[DT.]

Its just not enough saying your administration is not doing enough even the Gc refugess have become passified still swallowing the same old lies that they will all go home if they hold on.....

You have a GC state without having to share politcal power which Gc administration in their rigth minds would commit suicide and make compromises on the Cyprus issue, all they have to do is keep the Gc refugees subdued and they are on a winner, cant you see this.

I was trying to refer to the fact that if you believe that all those things are going on in the north then you ar enot to concerned that you will have no one to negotiate with in the future and that your neighbour is already Turkey, by doing nothing like prtesting or voting out ex eoka men then you are ahppy with the status quo.

not really vp. I see what your trying to say but its not what i meant.

I'm saying that the biggest loser from not solving this issue will be the TC people. Not the GC's (who have already lost everything and had to start again) not Turkey and not Greece.

There can be no bigger loss than evaporating from the face of this earth as a community. People will be reading about this TC community in history books like the extinct dodo.

My point is you should be more frightened of the status quo than we should.

But you are forgetting, my dear DT,that the TC culture and identity will survive in the GCs... for as long as GCs exist in this world...

You're on a roll Bir! It's a concept I tried to explain in the past somewhere but it didn't seem like anyone understood it at the time.

The TCs will understand it when it is too late,GR...And some GCs will probably never understand...

never thought of it that way

[Jerry]

You have to ask yourself the simple question - what does Turkey want? She wants a foothold in Cyprus in case the Greeks use the island as a base to attack Turkey (this is because Turkish generals are still in the age of bows and arrows) and she wants membership of the EU (although she claims to be losing interest) Turkey will put her own self interest first and crap all over the TCs when it suits.

Turkey will only gain international recognition for her conquest if the GCs agree.Turkey will only join the EU with GC consent. The price for this will be the return of a large part of the north to the ROC. The problem then facing both sides will be the EU rule that allows free movement within the EU. I don't believe the EU would ever allow permanent restrictions on movement so would the south be flooded with mainlanders, would the some TCs be happier in a Cypriot state in the south or would Greek Cypriots "buy up" the north - perhaps the EU was not such a good idea after all!

[Kikapu]

You have to ask yourself the simple question - what does Turkey want? She wants a foothold in Cyprus in case the Greeks use the island as a base to attack Turkey (this is because Turkish generals are still in the age of bows and arrows) and she wants membership of the EU (although she claims to be losing interest) Turkey will put her own self interest first and crap all over the TCs when it suits.

Turkey will only gain international recognition for her conquest if the GCs agree.Turkey will only join the EU with GC consent. The price for this will be the return of a large part of the north to the ROC. The problem then facing both sides will be the EU rule that allows free movement within the EU. I don't believe the EU would ever allow permanent restrictions on movement so would the south be flooded with mainlanders, would the some TCs be happier in a Cypriot state in the south or would Greek Cypriots "buy up" the north - perhaps the EU was not such a good idea after all!

I would not worry too much about too many mainland Turks ever moving to the mostly GC populated areas anytime in the future or ever, even with Turkey joining the EU. The Tc's are able to, but not the Turks, and without the RoC being in the EU, RoC would have had no leverage against Turkey for the return of the North or even for the Unification. Just imagine if Turkey was already in the EU, and RoC was not, do you see any settlement ever. I do not think so, because there would be no incentive for Turkey to negotiate anything. RoC's and Cypriots best trump card, is the EU membership.

[miltiades]

You have to ask yourself the simple question - what does Turkey want? She wants a foothold in Cyprus in case the Greeks use the island as a base to attack Turkey (this is because Turkish generals are still in the age of bows and arrows) and she wants membership of the EU (although she claims to be losing interest) Turkey will put her own self interest first and crap all over the TCs when it suits.

Turkey will only gain international recognition for her conquest if the GCs agree.Turkey will only join the EU with GC consent. The price for this will be the return of a large part of the north to the ROC. The problem then facing both sides will be the EU rule that allows free movement within the EU. I don't believe the EU would ever allow permanent restrictions on movement so would the south be flooded with mainlanders, would the some TCs be happier in a Cypriot state in the south or would Greek Cypriots "buy up" the north - perhaps the EU was not such a good idea after all!

I would not worry too much about too many mainland Turks ever moving to the mostly GC populated areas anytime in the future or ever, even with Turkey joining the EU. The Tc's are able to, but not the Turks, and without the RoC being in the EU, RoC would have had no leverage against Turkey for the return of the North or even for the Unification. Just imagine if Turkey was already in the EU, and RoC was not, do you see any settlement ever. I do not think so, because there would be no incentive for Turkey to negotiate anything. RoC's and Cypriots best trump card, is the EU membership.

And so right you are too Kikapu. Cyprus entry into the EU has been the best thing that ever happened to our island .

[Jerry]

Kikapu, there are two incentives - the EU and recognition. Recognition can only come from the ROC and that in itself is leverage with or without the EU. As for mainland Turks moving south you only have to see the large numbers of east Europeans moving to the UK to realise that it's economics not politics that stimulates movement.

[Viewpoint]

You have to ask yourself the simple question - what does Turkey want? She wants a foothold in Cyprus in case the Greeks use the island as a base to attack Turkey (this is because Turkish generals are still in the age of bows and arrows) and she wants membership of the EU (although she claims to be losing interest) Turkey will put her own self interest first and crap all over the TCs when it suits.

Turkey will only gain international recognition for her conquest if the GCs agree.Turkey will only join the EU with GC consent. The price for this will be the return of a large part of the north to the ROC. The problem then facing both sides will be the EU rule that allows free movement within the EU. I don't believe the EU would ever allow permanent restrictions on movement so would the south be flooded with mainlanders, would the some TCs be happier in a Cypriot state in the south or would Greek Cypriots "buy up" the north - perhaps the EU was not such a good idea after all!

I would not worry too much about too many mainland Turks ever moving to the mostly GC populated areas anytime in the future or ever, even with Turkey joining the EU. The Tc's are able to, but not the Turks, and without the RoC being in the EU, RoC would have had no leverage against Turkey for the return of the North or even for the Unification. Just imagine if Turkey was already in the EU, and RoC was not, do you see any settlement ever. I do not think so, because there would be no incentive for Turkey to negotiate anything. RoC's and Cypriots best trump card, is the EU membership.

And so right you are too Kikapu. Cyprus entry into the EU has been the best thing that ever happened to our island .

What has it really brought the island in relation to getting any closer to a solution? considering its been 3 years and we are no closer to a solution now than were say 10 years ago.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, there are two incentives - the EU and recognition. Recognition can only come from the ROC and that in itself is leverage with or without the EU. As for mainland Turks moving south you only have to see the large numbers of east Europeans moving to the UK to realise that it's economics not politics that stimulates movement.

What you say it's true regarding recognition. That alone will not gives Turkey any incentive to do anything, regarding to solve the Cyprus problem. If the RoC did not hold a trump card, in the way of the EU membership, then the Cyprus problem will drag on much further than when Turkeys sees an opportunity to join the EU. At the moment, if Turkey wants to join the EU, that road goes right through downtown RoC, with a toll gate at the end. Turkey will need to pay a toll for the EU gate to open, and the only toll the RoC will collect for Turkey's passage, will be the Unification of the island and Turkey already knows this, or else, she would not be driving towards the EU Toll Both. The question is, when will the rest of EU members will allow Turkey's entry.

As far as the Eastern Europeans flogging to the UK, is not a good example. Turks from Turkey are not very fond of anything that is Greek, no matter if it's from Greece or Cyprus. Being a Muslim country, they would never go into any GC restaurant, if pork is served for instance. Never mind they don't have to eat it, but they don't like it if the person sitting next table is eating it. Also, they will be concerns that the cook might have used the same knife to cut the pork and the lamb. Then there is the language barrier. Than there is a certain level of hate for each other. In many ways, Turks and Greek anything is much like oil and water, they just do not mix very well. Also, if there are no jobs for them in the mostly GC areas, then they will not be needed. I believe most Turks will actually leave the island and go back to Turkey, if there was a settlement, because they will feel more comfortable with their own. Certain habits are not easy to change. Just look at VP for an example. The guy is born and raised in the UK for the first 30 years of his life to a Cypriot parents, with all the Western civilization has to offer to him, and even he cannot be amongst that many GC's. I'm sorry to say this, but there are certain amount of Racism that goes in the minds of some people, from both sides. I'm sure certain amount of GC will also be Racist towards the Turks, for all that has happened in 74. Lets get the GC's and the TC's working together first, then we can worry about the Turks and the GC's later.

[Pyrpolizer]

Its just not enough saying your administration is not doing enough even the Gc refugess have become passified still swallowing the same old lies that they will all go home if they hold on.....

You have a GC state without having to share politcal power which Gc administration in their rigth minds would commit suicide and make compromises on the Cyprus issue, all they have to do is keep the Gc refugees subdued and they are on a winner, cant you see this.

I was trying to refer to the fact that if you believe that all those things are going on in the north then you ar enot to concerned that you will have no one to negotiate with in the future and that your neighbour is already Turkey, by doing nothing like prtesting or voting out ex eoka men then you are ahppy with the status quo.

not really vp. I see what your trying to say but its not what i meant.

I'm saying that the biggest loser from not solving this issue will be the TC people. Not the GC's (who have already lost everything and had to start again) not Turkey and not Greece.

There can be no bigger loss than evaporating from the face of this earth as a community. People will be reading about this TC community in history books like the extinct dodo.

My point is you should be more frightened of the status quo than we should.

But you are forgetting, my dear DT,that the TC culture and identity will survive in the GCs... for as long as GCs exist in this world...

You're on a roll Bir! It's a concept I tried to explain in the past somewhere but it didn't seem like anyone understood it at the time.

The TCs will understand it when it is too late,GR...And some GCs will probably never understand...

Not the full Cypriot culture though. There are unique characteristics in the Cypriot culture of the TCs the GCs don't have or better say they forgot.

Yourself is a perfect example dear Birkibrisli, Kikapu also, mrfromng as well. In fact in every TC in here i can trace something I used to know in Cypriot culture, that we (the Gcs) have lost

Small things, kind of difficult to explain, but our parents and grandparents did have them.

[karma]

Not the full Cypriot culture though. There are unique characteristics in the Cypriot culture of the TCs the GCs don't have or better say they forgot.

Yourself is a perfect example dear Birkibrisli, Kikapu also, mrfromng as well. In fact in every TC in here i can trace something I used to know in Cypriot culture, that we (the Gcs) have lost

Small things, kind of difficult to explain, but our parents and grandparents did have them.

like being afraid of touching anything HARAM may be