Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

DT.

I just don't see us using any kind of millitary approach to this matter. No matter how much the balance of power changes any armed conflict with turkey would be suicide.

I agree totally, this would also indicate Gcs have learned nothing from the past and will be the biggest mistake ever made by them.

WHen a tc state is ran solely by Mainland settlers, what protections will VP ask for in order to provide his people with a say in his country?

Are the TC's and the T's so similar in that it won't matter? Will the settlers treat the TC minority with respect to international law (such as the EU for example?) Will there be international outcry if the TC;s are poorly treated and excluded from their govt?

I wonder how much more beneficial it will be when your TC son's will be forced to serve national service in Eastern anatolia against some Kurd when they could be living in a fair, democratic and de-millitarised society in Cyprus?

We made that decision in 1974 and the structure good or bad is up and running in the TRNC as we speak, for us both ends of the stick are shitty on the one side Turkey on the other GCs, when we look back at our experiencies everyone can decide for themselves which period in history was better for them 1960 to 1974 or 1974 to 2007?? You may run down the TRNC with all its faults but dont forget TCs can up sticks and move south tomorrow to what you wish to feel is the promised land but Im sure you are intelligent enough to see this is not happening and workout why.

Your bargaining chip VP is only a bargaining chip while your opponent knows you are in position to negotiate for it. If circumstances change and the bargaining chip merely becomes an a permament asset of the Turkish side then there will be no bargaining. We live without those chips now and we will live without them in the future if thats the case. It will hurt but we will continue with life. WHere will you continue with life once the bargaining is over? Once you've handed the keys to the homes to the english and the flags of your state to the Turks? Somewhere in the EU? Will you use you ROC passport to get there?

I agree but are you happy with waiting on the sidelines for the north to go the way you claim it will? are you content knowing that your immediate neighbour will be Turkey and not TCs? are you happy knowing that you could have united under a BBF where you would have been able to curb Turks coming into the north? If you are then continue as you are and stop complaining because your administrations will never solve the Cyprus problem when they have what they want a Tc cleansed GC state recognized by the world with all its benefits, all they have to do is keep the frimly over the refugees eyes making them think that one day the will all return, if you are unable to see this then im sorry you need a specialist for blindness.

[DT.]

I wonder how much more beneficial it will be when your TC son's will be forced to serve national service in Eastern anatolia against some Kurd when they could be living in a fair, democratic and de-millitarised society in Cyprus?

We made that decision in 1974 and the structure good or bad is up and running in the TRNC as we speak, for us both ends of the stick are shitty on the one side Turkey on the other GCs, when we look back at our experiencies everyone can decide for themselves which period in history was better for them 1960 to 1974 or 1974 to 2007?? You may run down the TRNC with all its faults but dont forget TCs can up sticks and move south tomorrow to what you wish to feel is the promised land but Im sure you are intelligent enough to see this is not happening and workout why.

I have worked why VP. Ones who received Greek land would not move till a solution gave them an a,ternative and ones without Greek land would find it to expensive to buy in the south. You do have 10's of thousands who cross every day to go to work, a few hundred students who go to school and there is a growing community that has moved over here. I don't know if i ever gave you the example of a man and a boy i picked up hitchhiking due to a breakdown on the limassol nicosia highway. He was Turkish and his wife was TC and they lived over here.

Your bargaining chip VP is only a bargaining chip while your opponent knows you are in position to negotiate for it. If circumstances change and the bargaining chip merely becomes an a permament asset of the Turkish side then there will be no bargaining. We live without those chips now and we will live without them in the future if thats the case. It will hurt but we will continue with life. WHere will you continue with life once the bargaining is over? Once you've handed the keys to the homes to the english and the flags of your state to the Turks? Somewhere in the EU? Will you use you ROC passport to get there?

I agree but are you happy with waiting on the sidelines for the north to go the way you claim it will? are you content knowing that your immediate neighbour will be Turkey and not TCs?

For me 40,000 turkish troops across the green line means i'm already bordering with turkey right now. Won't make a difference.

are you happy knowing that you could have united under a BBF where you would have been able to curb Turks coming into the north?
The Annan plan allowed each statelet to control immigration. You could have let them in straight afterwards if you followed some carefully worded loopholes. If we are talking about a fairer BBF solution then I'm all for it.
If you are then continue as you are and stop complaining because your administrations will never solve the Cyprus problem when they have what they want a Tc cleansed GC state recognized by the world with all its benefits, all they have to do is keep the frimly over the refugees eyes making them think that one day the will all return, if you are unable to see this then im sorry you need a specialist for blindness.

Think you might be right here. The current administration does not seem to want to solve the traffic problem in nicosia let alone the cyprus problem.[color=red].

[Viewpoint]

I wonder how much more beneficial it will be when your TC son's will be forced to serve national service in Eastern anatolia against some Kurd when they could be living in a fair, democratic and de-millitarised society in Cyprus?

We made that decision in 1974 and the structure good or bad is up and running in the TRNC as we speak, for us both ends of the stick are shitty on the one side Turkey on the other GCs, when we look back at our experiencies everyone can decide for themselves which period in history was better for them 1960 to 1974 or 1974 to 2007?? You may run down the TRNC with all its faults but dont forget TCs can up sticks and move south tomorrow to what you wish to feel is the promised land but Im sure you are intelligent enough to see this is not happening and workout why.

I have worked why VP. Ones who received Greek land would not move till a solution gave them an a,ternative and ones without Greek land would find it to expensive to buy in the south. You do have 10's of thousands who cross every day to go to work, a few hundred students who go to school and there is a growing community that has moved over here. I don't know if i ever gave you the example of a man and a boy i picked up hitchhiking due to a breakdown on the limassol nicosia highway. He was Turkish and his wife was TC and they lived over here.

Your bargaining chip VP is only a bargaining chip while your opponent knows you are in position to negotiate for it. If circumstances change and the bargaining chip merely becomes an a permament asset of the Turkish side then there will be no bargaining. We live without those chips now and we will live without them in the future if thats the case. It will hurt but we will continue with life. WHere will you continue with life once the bargaining is over? Once you've handed the keys to the homes to the english and the flags of your state to the Turks? Somewhere in the EU? Will you use you ROC passport to get there?

I agree but are you happy with waiting on the sidelines for the north to go the way you claim it will? are you content knowing that your immediate neighbour will be Turkey and not TCs?

For me 40,000 turkish troops across the green line means i'm already bordering with turkey right now. Won't make a difference.

are you happy knowing that you could have united under a BBF where you would have been able to curb Turks coming into the north?
The Annan plan allowed each statelet to control immigration. You could have let them in straight afterwards if you followed some carefully worded loopholes. If we are talking about a fairer BBF solution then I'm all for it.
If you are then continue as you are and stop complaining because your administrations will never solve the Cyprus problem when they have what they want a Tc cleansed GC state recognized by the world with all its benefits, all they have to do is keep the frimly over the refugees eyes making them think that one day the will all return, if you are unable to see this then im sorry you need a specialist for blindness.

Think you might be right here. The current administration does not seem to want to solve the traffic problem in nicosia let alone the cyprus problem.[color=red].

What your responses tell me is that you are happy with the status quo, then you will not deny us the right to push for what we feel is our right, if you do then thats tough luck and we will continue going about our daily lives just like everyone else in the world.

[DT.]

I wonder how much more beneficial it will be when your TC son's will be forced to serve national service in Eastern anatolia against some Kurd when they could be living in a fair, democratic and de-millitarised society in Cyprus?

We made that decision in 1974 and the structure good or bad is up and running in the TRNC as we speak, for us both ends of the stick are shitty on the one side Turkey on the other GCs, when we look back at our experiencies everyone can decide for themselves which period in history was better for them 1960 to 1974 or 1974 to 2007?? You may run down the TRNC with all its faults but dont forget TCs can up sticks and move south tomorrow to what you wish to feel is the promised land but Im sure you are intelligent enough to see this is not happening and workout why.

I have worked why VP. Ones who received Greek land would not move till a solution gave them an a,ternative and ones without Greek land would find it to expensive to buy in the south. You do have 10's of thousands who cross every day to go to work, a few hundred students who go to school and there is a growing community that has moved over here. I don't know if i ever gave you the example of a man and a boy i picked up hitchhiking due to a breakdown on the limassol nicosia highway. He was Turkish and his wife was TC and they lived over here.

Your bargaining chip VP is only a bargaining chip while your opponent knows you are in position to negotiate for it. If circumstances change and the bargaining chip merely becomes an a permament asset of the Turkish side then there will be no bargaining. We live without those chips now and we will live without them in the future if thats the case. It will hurt but we will continue with life. WHere will you continue with life once the bargaining is over? Once you've handed the keys to the homes to the english and the flags of your state to the Turks? Somewhere in the EU? Will you use you ROC passport to get there?

I agree but are you happy with waiting on the sidelines for the north to go the way you claim it will? are you content knowing that your immediate neighbour will be Turkey and not TCs?

For me 40,000 turkish troops across the green line means i'm already bordering with turkey right now. Won't make a difference.

are you happy knowing that you could have united under a BBF where you would have been able to curb Turks coming into the north?
The Annan plan allowed each statelet to control immigration. You could have let them in straight afterwards if you followed some carefully worded loopholes. If we are talking about a fairer BBF solution then I'm all for it.
If you are then continue as you are and stop complaining because your administrations will never solve the Cyprus problem when they have what they want a Tc cleansed GC state recognized by the world with all its benefits, all they have to do is keep the frimly over the refugees eyes making them think that one day the will all return, if you are unable to see this then im sorry you need a specialist for blindness.

Think you might be right here. The current administration does not seem to want to solve the traffic problem in nicosia let alone the cyprus problem.[color=red].

What your responses tell me is that you are happy with the status quo, then you will not deny us the right to push for what we feel is our right, if you do then thats tough luck and we will continue going about our daily lives just like everyone else in the world.

Not sure how you reached that conclusion form my responses but hell i've seen you do stranegr things on this forum.

You will be denied going out to push for what you feel is right because its wrong. You will be denied a statelet because its illegal. You HAVE already ended up as a minority amongst turkish settlers because of 30 years with denktash..(just because you've had 2 good years with talat don't expect the world to forget the 28 odd years with denktash which I would bet you were not as critical as you are over our administration)

I have admitted our admninistration is not doing enough
I have written that a fairer bbf solution would be accepted

You decided that i don;t want to unite.

[Viewpoint]

Its just not enough saying your administration is not doing enough even the Gc refugess have become passified still swallowing the same old lies that they will all go home if they hold on.....

You have a GC state without having to share politcal power which Gc administration in their rigth minds would commit suicide and make compromises on the Cyprus issue, all they have to do is keep the Gc refugees subdued and they are on a winner, cant you see this.

I was trying to refer to the fact that if you believe that all those things are going on in the north then you ar enot to concerned that you will have no one to negotiate with in the future and that your neighbour is already Turkey, by doing nothing like prtesting or voting out ex eoka men then you are ahppy with the status quo.

[DT.]

Its just not enough saying your administration is not doing enough even the Gc refugess have become passified still swallowing the same old lies that they will all go home if they hold on.....

You have a GC state without having to share politcal power which Gc administration in their rigth minds would commit suicide and make compromises on the Cyprus issue, all they have to do is keep the Gc refugees subdued and they are on a winner, cant you see this.

I was trying to refer to the fact that if you believe that all those things are going on in the north then you ar enot to concerned that you will have no one to negotiate with in the future and that your neighbour is already Turkey, by doing nothing like prtesting or voting out ex eoka men then you are ahppy with the status quo.

not really vp. I see what your trying to say but its not what i meant.

I'm saying that the biggest loser from not solving this issue will be the TC people. Not the GC's (who have already lost everything and had to start again) not Turkey and not Greece.

There can be no bigger loss than evaporating from the face of this earth as a community. People will be reading about this TC community in history books like the extinct dodo.

My point is you should be more frightened of the status quo than we should.

[Kikapu]

Actually, the way I see things, is not that the RoC will need to negotiate with it's new neighbour (Turkey) in the event of Annexation or even a Partition, but it will be the other way around, that it will be Turkey who will need to negotiate with the RoC, in order to get into the EU. I know you all say that Turkey does not care anymore about the EU, but just take a look how often Turkish leaders are trying to cosy up to the EU members. So, the way I see things, at the end, compromises will need to be made, and if Turkey ends up giving most of the North back to the RoC, and perhaps keep a base out of sight somewhere in the Northern Part, then a deal will be made. If no deals are made, no EU for Turkey, and on the long run, no TC's in the North, just Turks.

The ball is in Turkey's corner.

[Viewpoint]

Its just not enough saying your administration is not doing enough even the Gc refugess have become passified still swallowing the same old lies that they will all go home if they hold on.....

You have a GC state without having to share politcal power which Gc administration in their rigth minds would commit suicide and make compromises on the Cyprus issue, all they have to do is keep the Gc refugees subdued and they are on a winner, cant you see this.

I was trying to refer to the fact that if you believe that all those things are going on in the north then you ar enot to concerned that you will have no one to negotiate with in the future and that your neighbour is already Turkey, by doing nothing like prtesting or voting out ex eoka men then you are ahppy with the status quo.

not really vp. I see what your trying to say but its not what i meant.

I'm saying that the biggest loser from not solving this issue will be the TC people. Not the GC's (who have already lost everything and had to start again) not Turkey and not Greece.

There can be no bigger loss than evaporating from the face of this earth as a community. People will be reading about this TC community in history books like the extinct dodo.

My point is you should be more frightened of the status quo than we should.

Thank you for your concern...

As I have mentioned before both ends of the stick are shitty we would face the same problems in a sea of 800.000 GCs. The only conselation if you can call it that is that we are Turkish in origin not Greek.

Are you not to worried about sharing the island with Turks? and what do you think the GCs should do to turn this tide around?

[BirKibrisli]

Its just not enough saying your administration is not doing enough even the Gc refugess have become passified still swallowing the same old lies that they will all go home if they hold on.....

You have a GC state without having to share politcal power which Gc administration in their rigth minds would commit suicide and make compromises on the Cyprus issue, all they have to do is keep the Gc refugees subdued and they are on a winner, cant you see this.

I was trying to refer to the fact that if you believe that all those things are going on in the north then you ar enot to concerned that you will have no one to negotiate with in the future and that your neighbour is already Turkey, by doing nothing like prtesting or voting out ex eoka men then you are ahppy with the status quo.

not really vp. I see what your trying to say but its not what i meant.

I'm saying that the biggest loser from not solving this issue will be the TC people. Not the GC's (who have already lost everything and had to start again) not Turkey and not Greece.

There can be no bigger loss than evaporating from the face of this earth as a community. People will be reading about this TC community in history books like the extinct dodo.

My point is you should be more frightened of the status quo than we should.

But you are forgetting, my dear DT,that the TC culture and identity will survive in the GCs... for as long as GCs exist in this world...

[Get Real!]

Its just not enough saying your administration is not doing enough even the Gc refugess have become passified still swallowing the same old lies that they will all go home if they hold on.....

You have a GC state without having to share politcal power which Gc administration in their rigth minds would commit suicide and make compromises on the Cyprus issue, all they have to do is keep the Gc refugees subdued and they are on a winner, cant you see this.

I was trying to refer to the fact that if you believe that all those things are going on in the north then you ar enot to concerned that you will have no one to negotiate with in the future and that your neighbour is already Turkey, by doing nothing like prtesting or voting out ex eoka men then you are ahppy with the status quo.

not really vp. I see what your trying to say but its not what i meant.

I'm saying that the biggest loser from not solving this issue will be the TC people. Not the GC's (who have already lost everything and had to start again) not Turkey and not Greece.

There can be no bigger loss than evaporating from the face of this earth as a community. People will be reading about this TC community in history books like the extinct dodo.

My point is you should be more frightened of the status quo than we should.

But you are forgetting, my dear DT,that the TC culture and identity will survive in the GCs... for as long as GCs exist in this world...

You're on a roll Bir! It's a concept I tried to explain in the past somewhere but it didn't seem like anyone understood it at the time.