Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

For as long as there are Cypriots who will not let go of 1963 rest assured that there will be Cypriots with the wisdom of Bir and others to remind us that what we need to do is bury the past look to the future and begin the process of reconciliation. Some of us , not only begun this process but have completed the course and have found the "promised " land " VP ought to ask himself as to why people such as myself have no problems in calling all Cypriots our brothers , and feel empathy towards those that suffered and in their own countries , became refugees. T/Cs have nothing to fear from the likes of Miltiades and G/Cs have nothing to fear from the likes of Birkibrisly and all other genuine Cypriots.

[Kikapu]

For as long as there are Cypriots who will not let go of 1963 rest assured that there will be Cypriots with the wisdom of Bir and others to remind us that what we need to do is bury the past look to the future and begin the process of reconciliation. Some of us , not only begun this process but have completed the course and have found the "promised " land " VP ought to ask himself as to why people such as myself have no problems in calling all Cypriots our brothers , and feel empathy towards those that suffered and in their own countries , became refugees. T/Cs have nothing to fear from the likes of Miltiades and G/Cs have nothing to fear from the likes of Birkibrisly and all other genuine Cypriots.

It is not the fear of the GC's by the Partitionist Miltiades that scares them, but rather the fear of losing what they have gained that does not belong to them legally. Aside from land, they have also gained political positions and stature within their own community. In short, they have become the "elitist" and going back to the days of "one Cyprus" will more than likely take away these privileges that they now enjoy. They are not interested what is good for their country of Cyprus, since they are only interested what is good for them in the "country"they have created which gives them all these privileges in the "TRNC".

Do not expect any confessions from the Partitionist any time soon to the above statements.

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli

To understand where Kifeas is coming from you need to show some empathy,step into his mind,not just his shoes,and feel what is in his heart..

How about some of this rare condition for the TCs? Kifeas!s approach has a very negative effect on TCs as its all a one way streeti we are this we are that, his main priority is the loss of his land in the north and the wealth he has lost for 33 years this blinds his evaluation and judgement makeing him one sided and unable to produce methodical and level headed arguements, as long as he is concerned if its Turkish it must be wrong.

And you know what my biggest safeguard will be????
Not the EU or the human rights courts,or the security forces or whatnot,but the passion for fairness and justice I know is present in the people I have listed above ...I cannot imagine any of these people remaining silent if they see anyone trampling on my human rights in a united Cyprus...That is all the guarantee I need...And I have no doubt I will feel part of the majority of Cypriots,and for the first time in my life I will feel a strong sense of security and sense of belonging...but alas...

Is that the same passion and fairness they showed in 1963, you may have surrendered to the GC ideology of being assimilated but do you think you have the right to force us to do so as well? when we have so many doubts and concerns about our role in a united Cyprus.

I know where you are coming from VP....And i wish i could say the GC politicians did things or are doing things to make you feel more secure....but i cannot say that...i guess i am expecting the TC community to reach deep down in their own hearts and find the courage to forgive and forget the old wrongs,for the sake of a peaceful coexistance in Cyprus...And be prepared to put their Cypriotness ahead of their ethnic side,and trust that the future will be different than the past....BEcause the present situation is entrenching the bitterness,resentment,and in some case hatred between the two main communities...If we can't find a way out soon,the only legacy you will leave your children will be the fear and the apprehention that it is only a matter of time before hot conflict starts again in Cyprus...You cannot stop the wrath of the majority of Cypriots by hiding behind the tanks of your cousins from across the waves.....The only way is to embrace them as your friends,brothers,sisters...and trust that together we will overcome any problems and achieve peace and justice for all....Because you can't have one without the other...I wish i could open ur head and put that into it....

The bottom line is you are asking the TCs to take a leap of faith hoping it will turn out ok because we are all Cypriots. Well Im sorry to dissapoint you but without safeguards and undertakings to secure my role in a united Cyprus then unifying is out of the question . We would be fools to take things on face value and being caught up in an emotional wurl wind injected by GCs that we are all now Cypriots and that we have nothing to be concerned about.

I want to leave my children a country where they feel they own it and belong there, where they are not treated immigrants and forced to deal with Greek in the daily lives, they should be allowed the freedom to be Turkish Cypriots and use facilites in the own language and have a say in the own future, any arrangement that will go against this ideology will be resoundingly rejected.

[zan]

_________________
Kifeas has spoken!
Cyprus is one, indivisible & belongs to its Cypriot people!

And he goes on to say GCs will ever gift you 30% of their country,

Can you see Kifeas include the TCs in the ownership of Cyprus?
Do you now understand why we can never live as one people, united and living side by side in harmony? With fascist and ultra nationalist people like Kifeas, Piratis, Sotos and 100s of thousands like them I say NOT A BLOODY CHANCE ON EARTH.

MR...selamlar...
To understand where Kifeas is coming from you need to show some empathy,step into his mind,not just his shoes,and feel what is in his heart...Feel the trauma of the little boy chased away from his home at gunpoint...Feel the outrage and the feelings of injustice which has lasted for 33 years...Feel that outrage grow into bitterness and resentment at seeing his country occupied by foreign soldiers,and the betrayal he feels about the welcoming of those troops by the TCs....Feel the bitterness grow into anger at the sight of the pillage of his former home and lands,feel his helplessness at watching his country given away piece by piece to the settlers,or sold on mass to other foreigners (British,Turkish,Israeli etc)...Feel his despair at seeing his country's historical and natural treasures desecrated,coasts and mountains turned into concrete jungles,churches turned into restaurants,stables or whatever....And feel his bitter amusement that his TC compatriots are forever justifying all this by evoking the horrible events which took place on both sides more than 40 years ago...

My dear MR...the collective TC fear of physical safety and assimilation and dominance by the GCs,expressed by the likes of VP and Zan in this forum,and by many others elsewhere,simply does not ring true or even credible any longer...It sounds like a very convenient excuse to maintain the status quo,and to turn the gains obtained by war and bloodshed into permanent political gains...That is where Kifeas' anger and bitterness is coming from...And it will never end till sanity prevails,till our county is united,till all refugees and exiles get some justice,satisfaction and closure...And yes,I would very happily live together with the GCs like Kifeas,Piratis,miltiades(selamlar can yurttasim),Bananiot,Cypez komshum,Pyros,MicAtcyp ,Alexios,Mikkie,Natty,Lena,GetReal,DT,Sotos and their like in and out of this forum (and i am sure there are tens of thousands of them),in a fully democratic,free,law obiding Cyprus under the wing of the EU...And you know what my biggest safeguard will be????
Not the EU or the human rights courts,or the security forces or whatnot,but the passion for fairness and justice I know is present in the people I have listed above ...I cannot imagine any of these people remaining silent if they see anyone trampling on my human rights in a united Cyprus...That is all the guarantee I need...And I have no doubt I will feel part of the majority of Cypriots,and for the first time in my life I will feel a strong sense of security and sense of belonging...but alas...

And the empathy for the rest of us does not matter. Only poor Kifeas has suffered and deserves everything back that he lost....sod the rest of us


In the 50s the world, that had anything to do with Cyprus, decided, after long and hard negotiations, that a treaty was needed and necessary to ensure a workable situation in Cyprus. The Zurich agreement was thought to be the best thing by some very good minds and was signed sealed and delivered to the first republic of Cyprus' doors.


Any system can fail if it is not carried out with the right intent. The GCs decided that it would not work and made plans for it not to work.

You keep trying on this stupid argument that our fears are outdated but refuse to add into that the facts of what is going on today and has been going on for nearly half a century. Nothing much has changed and the GCs still want a Greek island and trying to stick this false Cypriotness in as a title is not working. We, as TCs have lost a lot in this whole affair and at last are making some headway. This is frustrating the GCs that we are now moving forward without them is the result. I have said a thousand times that I hate no one in this whole affair and offer only love but you keep trying to persuade every one that hate is what I offer and nothing else. Not a practical way forward or the pursuit of a system in which fairness can be the buzzword. Your love of people is more obvious than mine because that is the whole basis of your argument. If we just all loved each other then all will be fine. The problem is that we do not all love each other and have differences that can only be catered for with special legislation. You cannot get round some facts with the offer of love because anyone will tell you that the satisfaction you get from love is short lived and you are trying to get a bit more from it as soon as the effect wears off. I just get into your world of lovesick fools wondering around the island whilst the politicians and the rich take away our very lives and souls. I used to think like that but then I grew up and saw the real world. If you do not want to live in the real world, well......stay in Australia because the clouds seem to float right by your front door there and you can hop on any time.

Recently, those that have been involved in the Cyprob and have their feet on the ground, have decided in their thousands that a special plan or treaty is needed still and put forth a plan that should have been discussed and negotiated with the love and respect that you are referring to but was instead sabotaged and then dumped like it was a plague. With this in mind can you still claim that the times have changed and we should just give up everything we have worked for, in order to join something that has nothing to do with us. How can you sit there and right that part of us, me, is outdated and that we have come of age when all the evidence says otherwise. You dismiss everything that has happened and is happening but put forth empathy for Kifeas, who has threatened everyone that he has spoken to and used intimidation and war as his cry for empathy. Do me a favour will you. I scream rape and you call me ill, he does it and you call out the air ambulance. Your balance is what is needed first and then we may just believe that your love is genuine.

The empathy you ask for is catered for and has been lived through as many times as I have written on this forum and others. Empathy however is one part of the w3hole and after the empathy comes the positive and possible way forward. These are achieved by dialogue and hard negotiations but with a respect for the people and the situation you are dealing with. The wholesale uprooting of the people is not the way forward and is usually only carried out in times of war so why you should want to inflict that on a people in peace time is beyond me.

I am sorry mate but far greater minds than yours and Kifeas' have said that a special package of agreements are needed in the case of Cyprus and needed they are. I have stated in a thread that not a single GC participated in as that "The "RoC" is not the solution to the Cyprob and never has been. You and the GCs seem to think that that was the alternative to the Annan Plan but it CLEARLY WAS NOT. The cards are still on the table and the "RoC" is not something that should be put forward or if it is then the TRNC should be there as well. The UN and the EU have spent a lot of time and money on this project and as far as I can tell, none of them have offered love as the only solution to A MASSIVE PROBLEM. Of course love and respect will have to be part and parcel of the whole state of affairs but it has to be a two-way thing and we just are not feeling it from the GCs especially after the A Plan. The "RoC" is not the solution but part of the problem and you or anyone else is not going to sell it to the TCs. I will say it again...The "RoC" is not the solution but part of the problem.

[Pyrpolizer]

Any system can fail if it is not carried out with the right intent. The GCs decided that it would not work and made plans for it not to work.

As if the TCs decided otherwise, and had not made plans for it not to work.

You dismiss everything that has happened and is happening but put forth empathy for Kifeas, who has threatened everyone that he has spoken to and used intimidation and war as his cry for empathy. Do me a favour will you. I scream rape and you call me ill, he does it and you call out the air ambulance. Your balance is what is needed first and then we may just believe that your love is genuine.

The difference between you and Kifeas on a personal level is that your suffering was imaginary whereas Kifeas’s was real. Your suffering has nothing to do with the Cyprob, it has to do with your upbringing in a foreign and hostile British environment from the age of 4.

If you haven’t noticed people who really suffered like Birkibrisli, Kikapu, mrfromng, denizaksulu, and others receive full empathy and understanding, and it doesn’t matter if the are TCs or GCs.

Fanatics like you and VP who grew up in England and have everything in their imagination receive nothing.

NB. Oh if I could ever imagine a Toyota (!!!) van back in 1963 sewed up with bullets, I would be a fanatic as well. At a time that Toyotas have not even existed…

[Kikapu]

The bottom line is you are asking the TCs to take a leap of faith hoping it will turn out ok because we are all Cypriots. Well Im sorry to dissapoint you but without safeguards and undertakings to secure my role in a united Cyprus then unifying is out of the question . We would be fools to take things on face value and being caught up in an emotional wurl wind injected by GCs that we are all now Cypriots and that we have nothing to be concerned about.

I want to leave my children a country where they feel they own it and belong there, where they are not treated immigrants and forced to deal with Greek in the daily lives, they should be allowed the freedom to be Turkish Cypriots and use facilites in the own language and have a say in the own future, any arrangement that will go against this ideology will be resoundingly rejected.

No he is not. He is telling you, that we cannot have peace and prosperity, when the AP included those Racist and Undemocratic "solution ideas" on the points Kifeas made to you, which you're yet to make any intelligent response to, as if you will be able to. So, do you want to play fair and square with the GC's or do you just want to only take and sod the rest, as you have once stated those same words. You can only leave your children what belongs to you, not what it does not belong to you. The land that "TRNC" sits on does not belong to you, therefore it is not something that you can leave to your children. Cyprus, just like many other nations use more than one languages, but you want to ethnically cleanse all other languages other than Turkish, so that your children does not have to hear anything, that is not Turkish. Do you hear your self, as to what a Racist and Bigoted person you are. You really do come from a 15th Century Mentality. Is this why you left the UK, because other than Turkish is spoken there. You would have been better off to go and live in Turkey, if that was your concern.

And we are asked to accept your concerns for your future.

It is very hard to please Racist and Bigoted people I'm afraid, because you are an irrational person. It is better to please the majority of all Cypriots with rational thinking, that please bunch of losers as your self.

What a fucking Racist and a Bigot you are, and for someone who was not even born in Cyprus, but we are willing to accept you to be a fellow Cypriot.

Take my advice and move to Turkey, so that you children can be raised in your 15th Century Mentality era.

I feel sorry for your children.

[Kikapu]

If you haven’t noticed people who really suffered like Birkibrisli, Kikapu, mrfromng, denizaksulu, and others receive full empathy and understanding, and it doesn’t matter if the are TCs or GCs.

Some fanatics even call you a liar, if one mentions their past, as BigToss did with me. Now, where was Zan and VP to set BigToss straight with his fanaticism.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas signature says
________________
Kifeas has spoken!
Cyprus is one, indivisible & belongs to its Cypriot people!

And then he goes on to say GCs will ever gift you 30% of their country,

Can you see Kifeas include the TCs in the ownership of Cyprus?

Mrfromng, instead of coming here and expressing his shame and apologising on behalf of his community for the criminal, racist, provocative, scandalous, hideous, ridiculous and illegitimate desire, aim and efforts of his community's leadership and Kofi Annan to cheat on the GC community and steal the 30% of Cyprus, to convert it into an exclusively Turkish colony, through that ridiculous constitution that appeared as part of the Annan plan; he has the audacity of 1000 monkeys to instead come here and accuse Kifeas for wanting precisely what has been proved beyond doubt that it is only his community's leadership and his motherland Turkey that have been aiming at!

Mrfromng, if I were you, I would have been ashamed to be uttering any words, other than apologising!

[Pyrpolizer]

Unfortunately dear Kikapu you turned out to be "i syja tou mavrou"/the black mans fig tree, meaning everybody takes it off on you in here. GCs join here they attack you, sctozesa joins in she attacks you, pyrpolizer joins in he attacks you so it happened with bigOz. Yet i believe BigOz means well, and he will soon discover he wants nothing different than you regarding the Cyprob. He is just hot tempered.

Btw I think I do you more harm that good in supporting you against TCs so from now on I will concentrate only if a GC attacks you unfairly which is a much easier job anyway

There is only one thing I wanted to say a long time ago regarding the school you were kept captive.I haven't said it because it might have been taken by others as another effort to support you:

Those were and still are 2 schools just separated by a fence one called kykkos A and the other kykkos B. The first was for boys the other for girls. (now they are both mixed). I personally graduated from Kykkos A. I DO REMEMBER one year there were rumors among the students that on the other school the Kykkos B there were TCs before. As a student I couldn't figure out those rumors. I was watching and watching but could see no signs of Turks in there. Only students. There was no mosque in there or around the area, so I was wondering how there were TCs before? Also all land for both schools belonged to church and the church builted those schools and gave them to the state. (Hence the name Kykkos-you visited the Kykkos monastery at Troodos haven't you?) So if it belonged to the church how could it be possible that TCs had houses inside the Kykkos B school?
These were my puzzles my friend when I was a student. So I thought those rumors just came from the imagination of some students.

Your life story, and the story of your visit in Cyprus just cleared up the puzzle I had so many years ago, when I was a student.... As you said the school in which you were kept captive was Kykkos B.

[Pyrpolizer]

Kifeas signature says
________________
Kifeas has spoken!
Cyprus is one, indivisible & belongs to its Cypriot people!

And then he goes on to say GCs will ever gift you 30% of their country,

Can you see Kifeas include the TCs in the ownership of Cyprus?

Mrfromng, instead of coming here and expressing his shame and apologising on behalf of his community for the criminal, racist, provocative, scandalous, hideous, ridiculous and illegitimate desire, aim and efforts of his community's leadership and Kofi Annan to cheat on the GC community and steal the 30% of Cyprus, to convert it into an exclusively Turkish colony, through that ridiculous constitution that appeared as part of the Annan plan; he has the audacity of 1000 monkeys to instead come here and accuse Kifeas for wanting precisely what has been proved beyond doubt that it is only his community's leadership and his motherland Turkey that have been aiming at!

Mrfromng, if I were you, I would have been ashamed to be uttering any words, other than apologising!

Kifeas I think we should credit the vast majority of TCs who voted YES with plain and simple desire for re-unification. I doubt anyone knew about the TCCS constitution and other details of the Anan Plan. Mrfromng included.