Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Kifeas,

I read all your posts since yesterday, and I have to say, you had covered the parts of the Annan Plan regarding the "Turkish State" very extensively, and if VP is left speechless without being able to respond to you, then you must have left "no stone unturned".

No Kikapu, VP may currently be responding with the abashed typical and usual empty slogans and clichés, in order to gain more time; but I can assure you that s/he is fervently consulting with the "headquarters" to come up with some more meaningful replies, hopefully soon!

[Pyrpolizer]

even if the Federal Laws were written in the Annan Plan, the State Laws were going to be overriding the federal Constitution. This was doomed to fail no matter what.

The anan Plan stated VERY-VERY explicitely, there is no hierachy between the laws of the central state and the consituent states.

[Kifeas]

I wondered if these points were the main ones that you saw as totally unjust to the GC, or were there others, and if there were, did you feel perhaps, that you could live with those.?

Why? Weren’t those I already posted enough?

Yes, there are other issues in the Annan plan, which are totally unacceptable for the GCs, such as the disguised confederation philosophy, Turkey’s unilateral intervention “rights,” the naturalisation of too many settlers, the way the property issues were going to be handled, the structure of the federal government and senate, the territorial arrangements, etc! All these issues were scandalously favourable to the TC community and profoundly unjust to the GC one.

My other question is, were there anything in the Annan Plan, that had similar Undemocratic and Racist article that were stalled in the "Greek State", that would have been against the best interest of the TC's, as they were in the "Turkish State", against the best interest of the GC's.

No, the other (GC) state's constitution did not contain any such biased elements against members of the TC community! Absolutely no comparison!

[MR-from-NG]

You are right cypezo, Viewpoint cannot respond! Neither anyone of the rest of TCs in this forum! Notice how the 2-3 of them that tried to react, have avoided to touch the essence and instead they resorted to the usual nonsense, and some of them have even resorted to the usual foolishly cynical rhetoric (mrfromng, iceman, etc!) They cannot respond, simply because the unveiling I have made on their side was total, complete and overwhelming!

Kifeas....in Turkish we have a popular saying which suits you and those who think like you..
Roughly transilates as "If you were on fire,you couldn't even burn the spot you are standing on"

carry on dreaming my friend.....you will wake up some day...................................................eventually

The only ones dreaming, iceman, are poor fellows like you, for thinking that the GCs will ever gift you 30% of their country, with their 300 medieval and ancient churches and monasteries and all the rest of landmarks of their historical past; to convert it into a Turkish province or a mini-Turkish republic, along the prototypes of your kemalist motherland! The hell may freeze sooner than that, iceman, …if your community will still exist in Cyprus!

We survived many set-backs in our long recorded history in this country, (300 years under the Arabs and the Saracens, 400 years under the Romans, 300 years under the Persians, 400 years under the Franks and the Venetians, 300 years under the Ottomans and 100 years under the British,) without abandoning our lands; and we are 1000% confident that we will survive this setback of the last 33 years too! We know how to survive in this country, and we will find a way to overcome this situation as well!

In Greek we have a saying, iceman, which goes as follows: “Damaged people are dangerous, because they know they can survive!”

and I'm asked to co-exist with demented people like him. Not a chance on earth. LONG LIVE THE TRNC.

[MR-from-NG]

Kifeas signature says
________________
Kifeas has spoken!
Cyprus is one, indivisible & belongs to its Cypriot people!

And then he goes on to say GCs will ever gift you 30% of their country,

Can you see Kifeas include the TCs in the ownership of Cyprus?
Do you now understand why we can never live as one people, united and living side by side in harmony? With fascist and ultra nationalist people like Kifeas, Piratis, Sotos and 100s of thousands like them I say NOT A BLOODY CHANCE ON EARTH.

[BirKibrisli]

_________________
Kifeas has spoken!
Cyprus is one, indivisible & belongs to its Cypriot people!

And he goes on to say GCs will ever gift you 30% of their country,

Can you see Kifeas include the TCs in the ownership of Cyprus?
Do you now understand why we can never live as one people, united and living side by side in harmony? With fascist and ultra nationalist people like Kifeas, Piratis, Sotos and 100s of thousands like them I say NOT A BLOODY CHANCE ON EARTH.

MR...selamlar...
To understand where Kifeas is coming from you need to show some empathy,step into his mind,not just his shoes,and feel what is in his heart...Feel the trauma of the little boy chased away from his home at gunpoint...Feel the outrage and the feelings of injustice which has lasted for 33 years...Feel that outrage grow into bitterness and resentment at seeing his country occupied by foreign soldiers,and the betrayal he feels about the welcoming of those troops by the TCs....Feel the bitterness grow into anger at the sight of the pillage of his former home and lands,feel his helplessness at watching his country given away piece by piece to the settlers,or sold on mass to other foreigners (British,Turkish,Israeli etc)...Feel his despair at seeing his country's historical and natural treasures desecrated,coasts and mountains turned into concrete jungles,churches turned into restaurants,stables or whatever....And feel his bitter amusement that his TC compatriots are forever justifying all this by evoking the horrible events which took place on both sides more than 40 years ago...

My dear MR...the collective TC fear of physical safety and assimilation and dominance by the GCs,expressed by the likes of VP and Zan in this forum,and by many others elsewhere,simply does not ring true or even credible any longer...It sounds like a very convenient excuse to maintain the status quo,and to turn the gains obtained by war and bloodshed into permanent political gains...That is where Kifeas' anger and bitterness is coming from...And it will never end till sanity prevails,till our county is united,till all refugees and exiles get some justice,satisfaction and closure...And yes,I would very happily live together with the GCs like Kifeas,Piratis,miltiades(selamlar can yurttasim),Bananiot,Cypez komshum,Pyros,MicAtcyp ,Alexios,Mikkie,Natty,Lena,GetReal,DT,Sotos and their like in and out of this forum (and i am sure there are tens of thousands of them),in a fully democratic,free,law obiding Cyprus under the wing of the EU...And you know what my biggest safeguard will be????
Not the EU or the human rights courts,or the security forces or whatnot,but the passion for fairness and justice I know is present in the people I have listed above ...I cannot imagine any of these people remaining silent if they see anyone trampling on my human rights in a united Cyprus...That is all the guarantee I need...And I have no doubt I will feel part of the majority of Cypriots,and for the first time in my life I will feel a strong sense of security and sense of belonging...but alas...

[Piratis]

Piratis , the majority of Cypriots are Cypriots !! The T/Cs are Cypriots and as such are part of that Majority. Calling Bir and Kikapu a minority is not conducive to finding a proper solution .As far as I'm concerned the T/Cs are not a minority in their country but very much part of the overall majority. Those Cypriots that embrace the Cypriot identity are not a minority , how can they be in their own country. I would never in a million years call Bir or Kikapu a minority and so should you !

Mrfromng, first of all the word "minority" is not a dirty word. It just means that if you group people based on certain criteria, some groups will have more people than other groups. For example if you group Cypriots based on religion you will find that the majority are Christians, a significant minority are Muslims etc. In that case I would belong to the tiny minority of Atheists. It just means that people in a country can be different and have different beliefs, nothing more than that.

Now imagine however if I used my status as one of the top 1% most good looking Cypriots, and claim that each of that 99% of ugly Cypriots should donate to us 1/3rd of their property. What do you think that 99% of Cypriots would respond?

So the problem is not if minorities and majorities exist. Since people are not ants, we will always be different and think different and therefore several minorities/majorities will exist within a society, and there is absolutely no problem with that.

The problem is if some group is trying to gain on the loss of other groups. Thats when the conflicts happen.

What I have always said is that all Cypriots should be equal, one person one vote with no kind of discriminations and beyond that every one of us should be free to speak the language he wants, have any religion he likes, belong to any ideology he wants etc. If some Cypriots think they should have more than their fair share because they are more good looking, smarter, the chosen of God or because belong to a higher race, then I will just tell them to fuck off

[Viewpoint]

Piratis , the majority of Cypriots are Cypriots !! The T/Cs are Cypriots and as such are part of that Majority. Calling Bir and Kikapu a minority is not conducive to finding a proper solution .As far as I'm concerned the T/Cs are not a minority in their country but very much part of the overall majority. Those Cypriots that embrace the Cypriot identity are not a minority , how can they be in their own country. I would never in a million years call Bir or Kikapu a minority and so should you !

Mrfromng, first of all the word "minority" is not a dirty word. It just means that if you group people based on certain criteria, some groups will have more people than other groups. For example if you group Cypriots based on religion you will find that the majority are Christians, a significant minority are Muslims etc. In that case I would belong to the tiny minority of Atheists. It just means that people in a country can be different and have different beliefs, nothing more than that.

Now imagine however if I used my status as one of the top 1% most good looking Cypriots, and claim that each of that 99% of ugly Cypriots should donate to us 1/3rd of their property. What do you think that 99% of Cypriots would respond?

So the problem is not if minorities and majorities exist. Since people are not ants, we will always be different and think different and therefore several minorities/majorities will exist within a society, and there is absolutely no problem with that.

The problem is if some group is trying to gain on the loss of other groups. Thats when the conflicts happen.

What I have always said is that all Cypriots should be equal, one person one vote with no kind of discriminations and beyond that every one of us should be free to speak the language he wants, have any religion he likes, belong to any ideology he wants etc. If some Cypriots think they should have more than their fair share because they are more good looking, smarter, the chosen of God or because belong to a higher race, then I will just tell them to fuck off

Can you guarantee that 80% will ever vote for a TC? The past tells us noway and 2007 still shows us that GCs are not only racists but will do everything within their power to supress TCs, giving free range we will not stand a chance of ever having a say in our own future, dont forget in a united Cyprus we are partners, not the subjects of a GC state. Without concrete safeguards TCs will not move anywhere and the status quo will continue for a very long time to come as you obviously GCs have no intention of sharing jack shit.

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli

To understand where Kifeas is coming from you need to show some empathy,step into his mind,not just his shoes,and feel what is in his heart..

How about some of this rare condition for the TCs? Kifeas!s approach has a very negative effect on TCs as its all a one way streeti we are this we are that, his main priority is the loss of his land in the north and the wealth he has lost for 33 years this blinds his evaluation and judgement makeing him one sided and unable to produce methodical and level headed arguements, as long as he is concerned if its Turkish it must be wrong.

And you know what my biggest safeguard will be????
Not the EU or the human rights courts,or the security forces or whatnot,but the passion for fairness and justice I know is present in the people I have listed above ...I cannot imagine any of these people remaining silent if they see anyone trampling on my human rights in a united Cyprus...That is all the guarantee I need...And I have no doubt I will feel part of the majority of Cypriots,and for the first time in my life I will feel a strong sense of security and sense of belonging...but alas...

Is that the same passion and fairness they showed in 1963, you may have surrendered to the GC ideology of being assimilated but do you think you have the right to force us to do so as well? when we have so many doubts and concerns about our role in a united Cyprus.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli

To understand where Kifeas is coming from you need to show some empathy,step into his mind,not just his shoes,and feel what is in his heart..

How about some of this rare condition for the TCs? Kifeas!s approach has a very negative effect on TCs as its all a one way streeti we are this we are that, his main priority is the loss of his land in the north and the wealth he has lost for 33 years this blinds his evaluation and judgement makeing him one sided and unable to produce methodical and level headed arguements, as long as he is concerned if its Turkish it must be wrong.

And you know what my biggest safeguard will be????
Not the EU or the human rights courts,or the security forces or whatnot,but the passion for fairness and justice I know is present in the people I have listed above ...I cannot imagine any of these people remaining silent if they see anyone trampling on my human rights in a united Cyprus...That is all the guarantee I need...And I have no doubt I will feel part of the majority of Cypriots,and for the first time in my life I will feel a strong sense of security and sense of belonging...but alas...

Is that the same passion and fairness they showed in 1963, you may have surrendered to the GC ideology of being assimilated but do you think you have the right to force us to do so as well? when we have so many doubts and concerns about our role in a united Cyprus.

I know where you are coming from VP....And i wish i could say the GC politicians did things or are doing things to make you feel more secure....but i cannot say that...i guess i am expecting the TC community to reach deep down in their own hearts and find the courage to forgive and forget the old wrongs,for the sake of a peaceful coexistance in Cyprus...And be prepared to put their Cypriotness ahead of their ethnic side,and trust that the future will be different than the past....BEcause the present situation is entrenching the bitterness,resentment,and in some case hatred between the two main communities...If we can't find a way out soon,the only legacy you will leave your children will be the fear and the apprehention that it is only a matter of time before hot conflict starts again in Cyprus...You cannot stop the wrath of the majority of Cypriots by hiding behind the tanks of your cousins from across the waves.....The only way is to embrace them as your friends,brothers,sisters...and trust that together we will overcome any problems and achieve peace and justice for all....Because you can't have one without the other...I wish i could open ur head and put that into it....