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GC Author Antonis Angastiniyotis and GCs - READ and LEARN!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Get Real! » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:21 pm

Piratis wrote:bigOz, If Turks obeyed the UN resolutions as they were obligated to do, then there wouldn't be a Cyprus Problem. The problem exists because the Turks insist on crimes and illegalities.

Beyond that, since the Turks did not obey the UN resolutions, the UN is trying to find different kind of solutions that will be acceptable to Cypriots. For such solution to be found GCs, the great majority of Cypriots, have to agree for it of course.

What did you expect? That you can come, steal our land, ethnically cleanse our people, ignore the UN resolutions calling for the immitiede withdrawal of troops and the respect of the sovereignty of Republic of Cyprus, and then force the "solution" that you like on us without our agreement?

So get it clear in your mind: The only legal thing is the 1960 agreements, and they will remain the only legal thing unless Cypriots accept something different. However Cypriots are not obligated to accept anything different. On the other hand you are obligated to end the illegal occupation and the illegal "trnc", and as long as you act illegally you will face consequences.

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Call him "repetitive", call him "boring", but one thing you cannot call him is incorrect. I thank Piratis for his tireless effort of reminding everyone of the true source of the Cyprus problem.
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Postby Kifeas » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:36 pm

cypezokyli wrote:
to be honest i dont think you can respond.
if you were in a position to do that you would have, as you did 4000 times before


You are right cypezo, Viewpoint cannot respond! Neither anyone of the rest of TCs in this forum! Notice how the 2-3 of them that tried to react, have avoided to touch the essence and instead they resorted to the usual nonsense, and some of them have even resorted to the usual foolishly cynical rhetoric (mrfromng, iceman, etc!) They cannot respond, simply because the unveiling I have made on their side was total, complete and overwhelming!

You see, if I was someone conducting VP’s rhetoric, the least I would have done after such an unveiling, would have been to express my shame and apologise on behalf of my community for those in my side that maintain the despicable ideas and ambitions they do, and whom with their actions have contributed for the wasting of such a good opportunity to solve the Cyprus issue, 3 years ago! If they were honest and well intended, they would have simply said what some TCs I know have already done. They would have expressed their disappointment and understanding of how rightful the GC community was to reject the Annan plan! They do not have the guts to do this, and instead, they consume themselves with meaningless and foolish rhetoric about the 1,000 [sic] so called UN “experts” that hypothetically tailored the plan! They think the GCs are a stupid and coward society, with no depth and historical consciousness, and which can ever be deceived and /or cowed into anything along the lines of their illegitimate aims and wishes.


cypezokyli wrote:
kifeas did not refer to parts of the anan plan which had to do with the central state. it specifically refered to how the tc state planned to treat the gcs.


You are right pezo, I did not refer to the foundation agreement or the URC (central government) constitution of the Annan plan, even though the constitutions of the two states were PART of the whole package bearing the code name “the Annan plan!” However, the issue is not only the constitution of the TCCS! It is the foundation agreement itself! To put it in different words, the constitution of the TCCS was the result or the outcome of certain provisions in the foundation agreement pertaining to the philosophy of it!

If we are to accept the philosophy of the foundation agreement, (which as I maintain is not an evolution and thus a continuation of the RoC, but –via “virgin birth,” one of a disguised partition into two legitimately separate and pre-existing “nation-states,” and then a disguised confederation between them,) then they TC community is “legitimised” to have come up with such a constitution for the TCCS! In a nutshell, it is not enough for the TCCS to be amended drastically and cleared out of all those emetic provisions, but also the foundation agreement has to be amended in certain ways, alternatively the TC community will always have the right to legally change the constitution of the TCCS, any time in the future, unilateraly, and bring it back to the same basis as the one under discussion. The way the foundation agreement was drafted, allows them to do this at will!

Anyhow, the Annan plan is now history –no one talks about it, and instead we have the “8th of July” agreement which puts everything onto a new basis and /or perspective.
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Postby iceman » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:05 pm

Kifeas wrote:
You are right cypezo, Viewpoint cannot respond! Neither anyone of the rest of TCs in this forum! Notice how the 2-3 of them that tried to react, have avoided to touch the essence and instead they resorted to the usual nonsense, and some of them have even resorted to the usual foolishly cynical rhetoric (mrfromng, iceman, etc!) They cannot respond, simply because the unveiling I have made on their side was total, complete and overwhelming!


Kifeas....in Turkish we have a popular saying which suits you and those who think like you..
Roughly transilates as "If you were on fire,you couldn't even burn the spot you are standing on" :lol: :lol: :lol:

carry on dreaming my friend.....you will wake up some day...................................................eventually :wink:
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:28 pm

Ok iceman, where from do you expect the next plan to come, and how do you expect that party to take this initiative?
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Postby Kifeas » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:28 pm

iceman wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
You are right cypezo, Viewpoint cannot respond! Neither anyone of the rest of TCs in this forum! Notice how the 2-3 of them that tried to react, have avoided to touch the essence and instead they resorted to the usual nonsense, and some of them have even resorted to the usual foolishly cynical rhetoric (mrfromng, iceman, etc!) They cannot respond, simply because the unveiling I have made on their side was total, complete and overwhelming!


Kifeas....in Turkish we have a popular saying which suits you and those who think like you..
Roughly transilates as "If you were on fire,you couldn't even burn the spot you are standing on" :lol: :lol: :lol:

carry on dreaming my friend.....you will wake up some day...................................................eventually :wink:


The only ones dreaming, iceman, are poor fellows like you, for thinking that the GCs will ever gift you 30% of their country, with their 300 medieval and ancient churches and monasteries and all the rest of landmarks of their historical past; to convert it into a Turkish province or a mini-Turkish republic, along the prototypes of your kemalist motherland! The hell may freeze sooner than that, iceman, …if your community will still exist in Cyprus!

We survived many set-backs in our long recorded history in this country, (300 years under the Arabs and the Saracens, 400 years under the Romans, 300 years under the Persians, 400 years under the Franks and the Venetians, 300 years under the Ottomans and 100 years under the British,) without abandoning our lands; and we are 1000% confident that we will survive this setback of the last 33 years too! We know how to survive in this country, and we will find a way to overcome this situation as well!

In Greek we have a saying, iceman, which goes as follows: “Damaged people are dangerous, because they know they can survive!”
Last edited by Kifeas on Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kifeas » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:37 pm

ops ...! I forgot the 250 years under the Assyrians!
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:01 pm

So kifeas I am asking you as well. After reading that constitution, do you still have hopes we can ever agree a solution?
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Postby Kikapu » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:07 pm

Kifeas,

I read all your posts since yesterday, and I have to say, you had covered the parts of the Annan Plan regarding the "Turkish State" very extensively, and if VP is left speechless without being able to respond to you, then you must have left "no stone unturned". I wondered if these points were the main ones that you saw as totally unjust to the GC, or were there others, and if there were, did you feel perhaps, that you could live with those.?

My other question is, were there anything in the Annan Plan, that had similar Undemocratic and Racist article that were stalled in the "Greek State", that would have been against the best interest of the TC's, as they were in the "Turkish State", against the best interest of the GC's.

I always believed for a long time now, that the best way to move forward solving the Cyprus Problem, would be to become a True Federation. In order to do this, first the Constitution for the Federation has to be agreed on by all parties before the Constitutions of the 2 states TC & GC can be formed. In this way, there would be no chance that individual States can write their own Undemocratic and Racist laws. It appears that's exactly what the Annan Plan did, was to write the laws for each State before the Federal Laws were written, or as it seems that way and even if the Federal Laws were written in the Annan Plan, the State Laws were going to be overriding the federal Constitution. This was doomed to fail no matter what.

The whole process seemed to have been done in reverse of "NORMAL" True Federation Democracy.
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Postby miltiades » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:15 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Piratis wrote:bigOz, If Turks obeyed the UN resolutions as they were obligated to do, then there wouldn't be a Cyprus Problem. The problem exists because the Turks insist on crimes and illegalities.

Beyond that, since the Turks did not obey the UN resolutions, the UN is trying to find different kind of solutions that will be acceptable to Cypriots. For such solution to be found GCs, the great majority of Cypriots, have to agree for it of course.

What did you expect? That you can come, steal our land, ethnically cleanse our people, ignore the UN resolutions calling for the immitiede withdrawal of troops and the respect of the sovereignty of Republic of Cyprus, and then force the "solution" that you like on us without our agreement?

So get it clear in your mind: The only legal thing is the 1960 agreements, and they will remain the only legal thing unless Cypriots accept something different. However Cypriots are not obligated to accept anything different. On the other hand you are obligated to end the illegal occupation and the illegal "trnc", and as long as you act illegally you will face consequences.

Image
Call him "repetitive", call him "boring", but one thing you cannot call him is incorrect. I thank Piratis for his tireless effort of reminding everyone of the true source of the Cyprus problem.


Piratis , the majority of Cypriots are Cypriots !! The T/Cs are Cypriots and as such are part of that Majority. Calling Bir and Kikapu a minority is not conducive to finding a proper solution .As far as I'm concerned the T/Cs are not a minority in their country but very much part of the overall majority. Those Cypriots that embrace the Cypriot identity are not a minority , how can they be in their own country. I would never in a million years call Bir or Kikapu a minority and so should you !
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:46 pm

iceman wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
You are right cypezo, Viewpoint cannot respond! Neither anyone of the rest of TCs in this forum! Notice how the 2-3 of them that tried to react, have avoided to touch the essence and instead they resorted to the usual nonsense, and some of them have even resorted to the usual foolishly cynical rhetoric (mrfromng, iceman, etc!) They cannot respond, simply because the unveiling I have made on their side was total, complete and overwhelming!


Kifeas....in Turkish we have a popular saying which suits you and those who think like you..
Roughly transilates as "If you were on fire,you couldn't even burn the spot you are standing on" :lol: :lol: :lol:

carry on dreaming my friend.....you will wake up some day...................................................eventually :wink:


iceman people like Kifeas are in denial, they have demonized the AP plan and convinced themselves that the world was out to get them. Would love to see Kifeas's face when the AP is reintroduced into the negotiations by the UN, then people like Kifeas will have to lick up off the floor what they spat out.
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