Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

TCs are not a minority in Cyprus; they are the finding partners. GCs have agreed to this and signed the 1959 Agreements .
TCs felt rejected and dejected by the NO vote from GCs at the referandum.And how the GCs felt the Annan plan was only legalising the injustices suffered.
how we can satisfy both sides concerns and the best way to reunify our homeland.All this talk of the past wrongs and all the accusations are doing nothing towards improving understanding and trust between our communities.If you want the status quo to remain then you are on the right track...
Gcs should think about what guarantees they can offer the TCs to make them feel safe and wanted and welcome in their own country.And TCs should think about the pain and suffering of the GC refugees and the families of the missing,and what could be done to compensate these people and give them some sense of justice.
I want to hear some GCs say RoC has been occupied by the GCs since 1963,and this was not fair on the TCs.

[Kifeas]

People here seem to have come under the delusion that because the "RoC" was allowed into the EU that that is the solution to the problem. This cannot be further than the truth. The truth is that the Annan Plan was the solution, all be it flawed, but that was the solution that was on the table and not the "RoC". We are still looking for a solution and the "RoC" wil have to go as part of that solution.

Take Annan plan and change everywhere in the text the word Turkish Cypriots with the word Kurds. Can Turkey approve such a plan? Why Greeks to accept it?

EPSILON
You need to read some more history books before you can make comments (preferably not in Greek)
Show me where in the Constitution of Republic of Turkey the Kurds are a founding member of the republic..How can you compare Kurds with TC's?

For your information, neither in the RoC constitution does it say that the TCs are a founding member of the republic!

[Get Real!]

TCs are not a minority in Cyprus; they are the finding partners. GCs have agreed to this and signed the 1959 Agreements.

Show me where in the 1960's agreements it says that you are NOT a minority? And whoever said that anyone can redefine the definition of the word "minority"?

Now grow up and take it like a man because you were, you are, and chances are you will always be a minority.

[bigOz]

Your ignorance clearly has no limits! Kurds demonstrate in Taksim squre more often than anyone else with no one ending in jail. During a recent demonstration (few months ago) a counter demonstration along the pavement by other Turks was met with stone and bottle throwing (bythe Kurds), resulting in damage to many shops. People were up in arms and complained why the riot police did not use heavy handed tactics to beat the shit out of them in this instance?

It is not against the law in Turkey to call yourself a Kurd - but those who live in Turkey are all Turkish citizens and are not expected to chant nationalism as something else - just like you would not expect a TC demonstrate in Limassol they are Turks in preference to being Cypriots!

The Greeks from Istanbul disappeared in line with what was happening to many Turks in Greece. The number of Turks in Greece were a lot more than Greeks in Istanbul to start with. The population increase could also have something to do with their breeding habits

I do not deny Greeks who were left in Turkey had suffered at various times (especially after the Independence war when there was a lot of anti-Greek feeling for reasons we shall not go into detail here), but if you are denying what great discrimination, ethnic cleansing efforts and suffering went on for Turks in Greece, I am willing to quote you from history!

Again, this will wrongly be interpreted by many as Turkish propaganda - but it is nothing of the kind! I accept Turks did similar things to Greeks for other reasons - but it is the the GC "deny and lie" mentality that forces me to prove my claims! So none of "Yes but this is what happened to Greeks...." talk. The point is "Are you denying the truthfulness of what I said about Turks in Thrace?"

A simple Yes or No will be helpful everyone!

[Kifeas]

TCs are not a minority in Cyprus; they are the finding partners. GCs have agreed to this and signed the 1959 Agreements .

Can you quote the section of the 1960 agreements or the constitution that say the TCs are the founding partners?

As for them not being a minority in Cyprus, what does make a group of people that make up the 18% of the total? Does it make this group the majority of the total? Does it make the rest of the group, the 82%, to be the minority group? Is this what your English language dictionary says, that the smaller group is called the majority and the larger group the minority?

I want to hear some GCs say RoC has been occupied by the GCs since 1963,and this was not fair on the TCs.

The RoC is only a legal and a political entity; and not a territory, a house or a plot land, to be occupied by anyone! It exists only in relation to the recognition it has as a subject of international law! It is an intangible concept that exists only in writing!

[iceman]

People here seem to have come under the delusion that because the "RoC" was allowed into the EU that that is the solution to the problem. This cannot be further than the truth. The truth is that the Annan Plan was the solution, all be it flawed, but that was the solution that was on the table and not the "RoC". We are still looking for a solution and the "RoC" wil have to go as part of that solution.

Take Annan plan and change everywhere in the text the word Turkish Cypriots with the word Kurds. Can Turkey approve such a plan? Why Greeks to accept it?

EPSILON
You need to read some more history books before you can make comments (preferably not in Greek)
Show me where in the Constitution of Republic of Turkey the Kurds are a founding member of the republic..How can you compare Kurds with TC's?

For your information, neither in the RoC constitution does it say that the TCs are a founding member of the republic!

Who were the founders then??
Maybe you should take another look at your constitution..


APPENDIX D
DRAFT CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS
PART I. ­ GENERAL PROVISIONS
ARTICLE 1

The State of Cyprus is an independent and sovereign Republic with a presidential regime, the President being Greek and the Vice­President being Turk elected by the Greek and the Turkish Communities of Cyprus respectively as hereinafter in this Constitution provided.

ARTICLE 2

For the purposes of this Constitution ­


(1) the Greek Community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Greek origin and whose mother tongue is Greek or who share the Greek cultural traditions or who are members of the Greek­Orthodox Church;

(2) the Turkish Community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Turkish origin and whose mother tongue is Turkish or who share the Turkish cultural traditions or who are Moslems;

(3) citizens of the Republic who do not come within the provisions of paragraph (1) or (2) of this Article shall, within three months of the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution, opt to belong to either the Greek or the Turkish Community as individuals, but, if they belong to a religious group, shall so opt as a religious group and upon such option they shall be deemed to be members of such Community:

Provided that any citizen of the Republic who belongs to such a religious group may choose not to abide by the option of such group and by a written and signed declaration submitted within one month of the date of such option to the appropriate officer of the Republic and to the Presidents of the Greek and the Turkish Communal Chambers opt to belong to the Community other than that to which such group shall be deemed to belong:

Provided further that if an option of such religious group is not accepted on the ground that its members are below the requisite number any member of such group may within one month of the date of the refusal of acceptance of such option opt in the aforesaid manner as an individual to which Community he would like to belong.

For the purposes of this paragraph a " religious group " means a group of persons ordinarily resident in Cyprus professing the same
religion and either belonging to the same rite or being subject to the same jurisdiction thereof the number of whom, on the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution, exceeds one thousand out of which at least five hundred become on such date citizens of the Republic;

(4) a person who becomes a citizen of the Republic at any time after three months of the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution shall exercise the option provided in paragraph (3) of this Article within three months of the date of his so becoming a citizen;

(5) a Greek or a Turkish citizen of the Republic who comes within the provisions of paragraph (1) or (2) of this Article may cease to belong to the Community of which he is a member and belong to the other Community upon ­

(a) a written and signed declaration by such citizen to the effect that he desires such change, submitted to the appropriate officer of the Republic and to the Presidents of the Greek and the Turkish Communal Chambers;

(b) the approval of the Communal Chamber of such other Community;

(6) any individual or any religious group deemed to belong to either the Greek or the Turkish Community under the provisions of paragraph (3) of this Article may cease to belong to such Community and be deemed to belong to the other Community upon ­


(a) a written and signed declaration by such individual or religious group to the effect that such change is desired, submitted to the appropriate officer of the Republic and to the Presidents of the Greek and the Turkish Communal Chambers;

(b) the approval of the Communal Chamber of such other Community;

(7) (a) a married woman shall belong to the Community to which her husband belongs.

(b) a male or female child under the age of twenty­one who is not married shall belong to the Community to which his or her father belongs, or, if the father is unknown and he or she has not been adopted, to the Community to which his or her mother belongs.

ARTICLE 3

1. The official languages of the Republic are Greek and Turkish.

2. Legislative, executive and administrative acts and documents shall be drawn up in both official languages and shall, where under the express provisions of this Constitution promulgation is required, be promulgated by publication in the official Gazette of the Republic in both official languages.

3. Administrative or other official documents addressed to a Greek or a Turk shall be drawn up in the Greek or the Turkish language respectively.

4. Judicial proceedings shall be conducted or made and judgments shall be drawn up in the Greek language if the parties are Greek, in the Turkish language if the parties are Turkish, and in both the Greek and the Turkish languages if the parties are Greek and Turkish. The official language or languages to be used for such purposes in all other cases shall be specified by the Rules of Court made by the High Court under Article 163.

5. Any text in the official Gazette of the Republic shall be published in both official languages in the same issue.

6. (1) Any difference between the Greek and the Turkish texts of any legislative, executive or administrative act or document published in the official Gazette of the Republic, shall be resolved by a competent court.

(2) The prevailing text of any law or decision of a Communal Chamber published in the official Gazette of the Republic shall be that of the language of the Communal Chamber concerned.

(3) Where any difference arises between the Greek and the Turkish texts of an executive or administrative act or document which, though not published in the official Gazette of the Republic, has otherwise been published, a statement by the Minister or any other authority concerned as to which text should prevail or which should be the correct text shall be final and conclusive.

(4) A competent court may grant such remedies as it may deem just in any case of a difference in the texts as aforesaid.

7. The two official languages shall be used on coins, currency notes a stamps.

8. Every person shall have the right to address himself to the authorities of the Republic in either of the official languages.

ARTICLE 4

1. The Republic shall have its own flag of neutral design and colour, chosen jointly by the President and the Vice­President of the Republic.

2. The authorities of the Republic and any public corporation or public utility body created by or under the laws of the Republic shall fly the flag of the Republic and they shall have the right to fly on holidays together with the flag of the Republic both the Greek and the Turkish flags at the same time.

3. The Communal authorities and institutions shall have the right to fly on holidays together with the flag of the Republic either the Greek or the Turkish flag at the same time.

4. Any citizen of the Republic or any body, corporate or unincorporate other than public, whose members are citizens of the Republic, shall have the right to fly on their premises the flag of the Republic or the Greek or the Turkish flag without any restriction.

[Kifeas]

Iceman, I do not have much time to go over an entire page to find out just a sentence, and yet not being able to find it. Can you please quote to me only the section which says the the TCs are the founding members or partners?

[Piratis]

iceman, not only your quote doesn't talk anywhere about "founding fathers" but on the contrary it makes clear that the Greek Cypriots who are majority will have more powers than those of the TC minority. This is why Greek Cypriots were given the president while Turkish Cypriots the vicepresident.

If you ask me that is wrong. What we should have is a constitution like in every other democratic country where one person = one vote without racist discriminations.
However since you have the arrogance to say that TCs are "higher" than Kurds and other minorities because of the 1960 agreements, then I have to inform you that even a Pakistani immigrant in the UK has the right to become the Prime Minister of UK, while a member of the TC minority in Cyprus doesn't have this right. So not only you are not "founding fathers" but the constitution clearly defines your lower share in power and restricts you from having anything more (e.g. the president).

So think again before using the 1960 agreements to make the ridiculous claim that the 18% of TCs are not a minority.

[iceman]

Iceman, I do not have much time to go over an entire page to find out just a sentence, and yet not being able to find it. Can you please quote to me only the section which says the the TCs are the founding members or partners?

Maybe you care to tell me who actually was the founder of the ROC..
Also while you are at it please explain to me what you understand from

ARTICLE 1
The State of Cyprus is an independent and sovereign Republic with a presidential regime, the President being Greek and the Vice­President being Turk elected by the Greek and the Turkish Communities of Cyprus respectively as hereinafter in this Constitution provided

Also,if you want to know about minorities status in the Constitution read

Introduction
PART III
NOTES ON DOCUMENTS ANNEXED
THE SMALLER RELIGIOUS GROUPS

29. The Armenians, Maronites and Latins constitute three separate religious groups in the island. A statement by Her Majesty's Government on constitutional safeguards for these groups in accordance with paragraph B (2) (i) of the United Kingdom Declaration made at the London Conference of February, 1959 (Document III of Cmnd. 679) is at Appendix E to this Paper. This statement has been accepted by Archbishop Makarios and Dr. Kutchuk.


I wonder why Turkish Cypriots were not listed in the above paragraph...dont you??

[iceman]

iceman, not only your quote doesn't talk anywhere about "founding fathers" but on the contrary it makes clear that the Greek Cypriots who are majority will have more powers than those of the TC minority. This is why Greek Cypriots were given the president while Turkish Cypriots the vicepresident.

If you ask me that is wrong. What we should have is a constitution like in every other democratic country where one person = one vote without racist discriminations.
However since you have the arrogance to say that TCs are "higher" than Kurds and other minorities because of the 1960 agreements, then I have to inform you that even a Pakistani immigrant in the UK has the right to become the Prime Minister of UK, while a member of the TC minority in Cyprus doesn't have this right. So not only you are not "founding fathers" but the constitution clearly defines your lower share in power and restricts you from having anything more (e.g. the president).

So think again before using the 1960 agreements to make the ridiculous claim that the 18% of TCs are not a minority.

Read my above answer to kifeas,cant be bothered to copy paste again