Cyprus-Forum.com

[bigfatlondonboy]

so tell us then alex what the Greeks gave to Cyprus after 1974.if they cared so much for Cyprus why did they not try and stop the turks..............

Fo the same reason Cypriots themlselves did not try to stop them- Both countries had a clever leadership that time

my question remains unanswered...

[Nikephoros]

BigfatLondonboy read a book or something.

On October 25, 1971 in the United Nations Spyros Kyprianou representing Cyprus voted to recognize China in the United Nations(vote 2578). After this Kissinger decided according to most diplomats the fate of Cyprus later that October.
Source:"Τα μυστικά αρχεία του Κίσιντζερ Η απόφαση για τη διχοτόμηση" p. 15

Before this the USA at the last hour intervened to stop the attempted Turkish invasions of 1964 and 1967 at the last hour.
Source: Ibid. p. 13

The Greek Cypriot leadership was so incompetent that they ruined their diplomatic realtionships, facilitating the Turkish invasion. Also see this thread:
Reducing the National Guard

Summary:
... "On the 1st of July 1974 the Cypriot Government decides to pass a law lowering the duration of conscription from 14 to 24 months. For the date of the application of this law they choose the date of the 20th of July (I wonder if this was an accident that this was the date of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus?)" ...

"This would have reduced the strength of the National Guard on that date to something like 5,000 men in peactime. The Turkish Cypriot enclave of Lefkosa-Agyrtas alone had 3,500 men directed from Turkish officers, and their strength(Turkish Cypriot) mounts up to 20,000 in the whole of Cyprus." ...

The Makarios regime also tried to cripple the National Guard. This led the Ioannides regime and National Guard to give orders to hit Makarios's palace. The Makarios regime was inept on every level. The only thing he was good at was passing blame to others.

[BirKibrisli]

Dear miltiades...Please do not waste any time and energy replying to people who have nothing sensible to contribute to this forum but keep doing it anyway...There is no one as blind as those who refuse to see....so let them swim in their blind and fanatical nationalism,their empty and senseless chauvinism,and their idiotic ideas learned from certain
"history" books...

Let me warm your heart,with a bit of oral history,taken from my own family...I mentioned earlier that our family doctor in Istinjo was a GC...His name was Herodotus Nicholaides,and he was so close to my grandparents that he called them "Mum" and "Dad"...At the height of the EOKA fear,my grandmother got very ill and they sent for Dr Herodotos.After examining my grandmother he decided that grandma had to go to the hospital in Polis where Dr Nicholaides worked.But grandma was too afraid of the Eoka to make such a trip and stay in a hospital in Polis...Realising this the good doctor convinced my grandma to go with him to his own house in Polis where he nursed her back to good health over many days...
And my mother confessed something else to me recently...That in her early 20s Dr Herodotos had officially asked for her hand in marriage...Her mother was all for the marriage but her father was not so keen because herodotos was a leftist,communist sympathiser at the time,and Grandpa thought he might be assassinated sometime in the future...So they left the decision to Mother who refused...When I asked her if that was because he was a GC,"Good heavens no," she said," he was not handsome enough..." I huged my soon-to-be 87 year old mother and laughed and laughed till tears came...

Some will dismiss this too as "oral history",and perhaps unreliable...
But this was how it was in our beloved Cyprus,my dear friend,and nothing will change the fact that a nation was forcibly divided using fanatical nationalism,and the perpetrators are still at it in this very forum,trying to tell us we are not what we feel we are...Shame on them and pox on their houses!..

[bigOz]

I am using stupidity...

So tell me where you an officer of the 361st Infantry Battalion on the Battle of Cyprus?
Have you ever did research in the State Department archives regarding the Turkish invasion?
Have you ever studied Islamic jurisprudence?

You can only learn useless info from discussions in cafes that you should forget. For every subject out there from weightlifting to history to musical theory there are serious experts who leave written records known as books. But NeoCypriots prefer always first ideology and ignorance.

What are you ranting about man? The Turkish army is not run by "Islamic jurisprudence", anymore than the TCs!

There is no record of "battle of Cyprus" in any history books I've read - you are turning this into a battle of "Waterloo"! What battle? more than 20,000 Mainland Greek army who backed EOKA overthrow the democratically elected president Makarios, running away in the face of the invading Turkish army and leaving behind GCs to defend their beaches? When it was not them who started the trouble in the first place?

On your next visit to Kyrenia try visiting the military museum where you'll see many vehicles left behind in their haste to run away! As a TC I can vouch for one thing, and that is the main difference between mainland Greeks and GCs is that that Cypriots have a lot more balls when it comes to fighting - excluding the dogs of EOKA who also made a run for it and who are only good in fighting unarmed civilians!

And before anyone starts the rubbish about Turkish army coming in with tanks and artillery - the mainland Greek troops on the island were not using air-pistols either. They were fully equipped with tanks, heavy artillery and even anti-aircraft missiles, as well as outnumbering the initial landing forces by almost two to one. There is no denying that the daring fascist Greek junta brought this problem home to GCs and had left them to pay the price...

This post almoast telling the trough on how GCs were running away during Turkish invasion.However to say that mainland Greek soldiers runned away in fights with Turks!!!Yes these participating in Greek Juntas plans yes but tell us my freind why Nicocia airport is not occupied by Turks?It was the only place where pure Greek from Creta Island soldiers deffending the area.

In cyprus in 1974 was not a real war between a democratic Greece or Cyprus against the invasion it was just an application of fanatics plans to destroy the Island

The real question you should be asking is "Why is Nicosia International Airport is not occupied by Greeks or GCs?"(if you are right)

Yes there was strong resistance by the joint mainland Greek and National Guard forces gathered in great number in and around the airport, against the advancing smaller Turkish force in the area. Allthough they had the support of 3-4 tanks, couple of which were destroyed by anti-tank fire) they still managed to encircle the resistance awaiting for reinforcements to arrive before a final assault! There was nowhere for the defenders to run even if they wantred to!

If it weren't for the arrival of the United Nations forces, they would have faced total destruction. It was the UN forces who negotiated with the Turkish forces to allow the defenders safe passage out of the area followed by the UN taking positions at the airport at the same time as Turkish forces moved into the terminals. It was after a stand off between UN forces and the Turkish forces which almost ended in a armed conflict, the Turkish forces were ordered by their commanders to withdraw to the perimeter - on the condition that UN keeps hold of the airport and does not return it to Greek forces! That is why Nicosia Airport has been out of commission and under UN occupation since then!

If you want a better standard of how good a fighting force each side was, take another look at the earlier, 2 day attack on the small contingent (500 men) of the Turkish army stationed in Gonyeli by the joint Greek and National Guard using tanks and artillery! This was the contingent stationed in the island in line with the agreements that allowed them - before the conflict started.
http://www.answers.com/topic/military-o ... -of-cyprus

Turkish paratroopers are dropped at three landing zones in and around the Agyrta-Nicosia enclave on the 20th July, leading to serious casualties at Mia Millia where they are accidentally dropped on Greek Cypriot defensive lines (Drousiotis, 2004).

On the same day, the Cyprus National Guard launches the most massive attack in its history against the Turkish Cypriot-held village of Kioneli, dispatching a full tank battalion, multiple infantry battalions, and with support from the ELDYK battalion. The attack is coordinated with mountain commando battalions and infantry battalions flanking the Agyrta-Nicosia enclave to the north in an effort to isolate it from a Turkish bridgehead. (Drousiotis, 2004)

The formation of the bridgehead depended heavily on Kioneli remaining under Turkish Cypriot control, and both fortifications and anti-tank ditches prevented Greek Cypriot tanks from getting close enough to support an infantry attack. Two Greek Cypriot T-34 tanks were lost in the failed attack, adding to the five lost in Kyrenia on the same day (20th July 1974).

As for the silly remark and its contents earlier about me being clueless(???), I suggest you read what I say before hovering your eyes and running for replies! Furthermore, I believe the above account explains your groundless claim below - who is lying then?:

The National Guard only had a handful of inadequate WWII Soviet T-35 tanks. By the time Turkey invaded only 3 were operational. You bs and lie about the power of the National Guard.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu , I look forward to it . I will speak to mrfromng , he is a nice guy and you must have noticed he does not hold any grudges . It would be realy nice to have a threesome , it would be like the concervative party the labour party and the liberals !! And all Cypriots !!!

So let me guess who is who.

Miltiades is the Conservative, Mrfromng is the Labour and Kikapu is the Liberal.

Can't promise we will get a chance to meet due to my short stay, but will give you "heads-up" as soon as possible.

[miltiades]

Dear miltiades...Please do not waste any time and energy replying to people who have nothing sensible to contribute to this forum but keep doing it anyway...There is no one as blind as those who refuse to see....so let them swim in their blind and fanatical nationalism,their empty and senseless chauvinism,and their idiotic ideas learned from certain
"history" books...

Let me warm your heart,with a bit of oral history,taken from my own family...I mentioned earlier that our family doctor in Istinjo was a GC...His name was Herodotus Nicholaides,and he was so close to my grandparents that he called them "Mum" and "Dad"...At the height of the EOKA fear,my grandmother got very ill and they sent for Dr Herodotos.After examining my grandmother he decided that grandma had to go to the hospital in Polis where Dr Nicholaides worked.But grandma was too afraid of the Eoka to make such a trip and stay in a hospital in Polis...Realising this the good doctor convinced my grandma to go with him to his own house in Polis where he nursed her back to good health over many days...
And my mother confessed something else to me recently...That in her early 20s Dr Herodotos had officially asked for her hand in marriage...Her mother was all for the marriage but her father was not so keen because herodotos was a leftist,communist sympathiser at the time,and Grandpa thought he might be assassinated sometime in the future...So they left the decision to Mother who refused...When I asked her if that was because he was a GC,"Good heavens no," she said," he was not handsome enough..." I huged my soon-to-be 87 year old mother and laughed and laughed till tears came...

Some will dismiss this too as "oral history",and perhaps unreliable...
But this was how it was in our beloved Cyprus,my dear friend,and nothing will change the fact that a nation was forcibly divided using fanatical nationalism,and the perpetrators are still at it in this very forum,trying to tell us we are not what we feel we are...Shame on them and pox on their houses!..

Hi Bir , Dr Herodotos was our doctor too , in fact he baptized my older brother and also employed him in his clinic doing general cleaning and odd jobs. His son , Kypros Nicolaides is a famous pediatrician , in fact the number one in the world , he is as the Kings College Hospital in London. If I'm not mistaken the good doctor married a lady from Greece, My father was very close to him since both shared same ideologies . The doctor was a very special human being and a great Cypriot , and his son takes after him.

[bigOz]

Kikapu , I look forward to it . I will speak to mrfromng , he is a nice guy and you must have noticed he does not hold any grudges . It would be realy nice to have a threesome , it would be like the concervative party the labour party and the liberals !! And all Cypriots !!!

So let me guess who is who.

Miltiades is the Conservative, Mrfromng is the Labour and Kikapu is the Liberal.

Can't promise we will get a chance to meet due to my short stay, but will give you "heads-up" as soon as possible.

Here you go miltiades! Now you see what I mean? The guy is a fake - you call his bluff in good will and he makes a hasty retreat! How rude...

Why is it I always work out people long before others do?

[miltiades]

Kikapu , I look forward to it . I will speak to mrfromng , he is a nice guy and you must have noticed he does not hold any grudges . It would be realy nice to have a threesome , it would be like the concervative party the labour party and the liberals !! And all Cypriots !!!

So let me guess who is who.

Miltiades is the Conservative, Mrfromng is the Labour and Kikapu is the Liberal.

Can't promise we will get a chance to meet due to my short stay, but will give you "heads-up" as soon as possible.

Here you go miltiades! Now you see what I mean? The guy is a fake - you call his bluff in good will and he makes a hasty retreat! How rude...

Why is it I always work out people long before others do?

Tell you what BigOz , I will invite Ahmet , and you so we have 4 T/C and 1 G/C !!

[EPSILON]

He owes you nothing. Take your Nikiphoros, Diogenis, Kolokotronis, Boumboulina, and every other Greek member from here and go join a Greek forum where you belong and leave us in peace.

We have NOTHING to say to you that can bring a smile to your face.

Blah Blah Blah... are you trying to avoid giving an answer to my question to you regarding the Istanbul pogrom?

GET REAL:If you do not realise this is a Greek forum, either created by Greeks of Cyprus or mainland Greece.

There are no nationalities for internet sites. Forums are all in public domain and unless you wish to make them "selected members only" which you can do so which means only those mates of members can participate, you cannot put a nationality tag to it! In fact, if you did, you might even face a ban by Google based on "racism"!

In any case I doubt any such forum would have too many members for it to be economically viable (ie. for anyone to advertise), and it would also be extremely boring... Over the past 3 years I have become member to at least 40-60 forums couple of them private and I do know what I am talking about!

As for you advice to GR that this is a Greek forum - then why the hell is it called CYPRUS FORUM?

You are right there are not national forums but i was not the one sending us out of the forum to a Greek one- i was just replying to a supid position

[EPSILON]

I am using stupidity...

So tell me where you an officer of the 361st Infantry Battalion on the Battle of Cyprus?
Have you ever did research in the State Department archives regarding the Turkish invasion?
Have you ever studied Islamic jurisprudence?

You can only learn useless info from discussions in cafes that you should forget. For every subject out there from weightlifting to history to musical theory there are serious experts who leave written records known as books. But NeoCypriots prefer always first ideology and ignorance.

What are you ranting about man? The Turkish army is not run by "Islamic jurisprudence", anymore than the TCs!

There is no record of "battle of Cyprus" in any history books I've read - you are turning this into a battle of "Waterloo"! What battle? more than 20,000 Mainland Greek army who backed EOKA overthrow the democratically elected president Makarios, running away in the face of the invading Turkish army and leaving behind GCs to defend their beaches? When it was not them who started the trouble in the first place?

On your next visit to Kyrenia try visiting the military museum where you'll see many vehicles left behind in their haste to run away! As a TC I can vouch for one thing, and that is the main difference between mainland Greeks and GCs is that that Cypriots have a lot more balls when it comes to fighting - excluding the dogs of EOKA who also made a run for it and who are only good in fighting unarmed civilians!

And before anyone starts the rubbish about Turkish army coming in with tanks and artillery - the mainland Greek troops on the island were not using air-pistols either. They were fully equipped with tanks, heavy artillery and even anti-aircraft missiles, as well as outnumbering the initial landing forces by almost two to one. There is no denying that the daring fascist Greek junta brought this problem home to GCs and had left them to pay the price...

This post almoast telling the trough on how GCs were running away during Turkish invasion.However to say that mainland Greek soldiers runned away in fights with Turks!!!Yes these participating in Greek Juntas plans yes but tell us my freind why Nicocia airport is not occupied by Turks?It was the only place where pure Greek from Creta Island soldiers deffending the area.

In cyprus in 1974 was not a real war between a democratic Greece or Cyprus against the invasion it was just an application of fanatics plans to destroy the Island

The real question you should be asking is "Why is Nicosia International Airport is not occupied by Greeks or GCs?"(if you are right)

Yes there was strong resistance by the joint mainland Greek and National Guard forces gathered in great number in and around the airport, against the advancing smaller Turkish force in the area. Allthough they had the support of 3-4 tanks, couple of which were destroyed by anti-tank fire) they still managed to encircle the resistance awaiting for reinforcements to arrive before a final assault! There was nowhere for the defenders to run even if they wantred to!

If it weren't for the arrival of the United Nations forces, they would have faced total destruction. It was the UN forces who negotiated with the Turkish forces to allow the defenders safe passage out of the area followed by the UN taking positions at the airport at the same time as Turkish forces moved into the terminals. It was after a stand off between UN forces and the Turkish forces which almost ended in a armed conflict, the Turkish forces were ordered by their commanders to withdraw to the perimeter - on the condition that UN keeps hold of the airport and does not return it to Greek forces! That is why Nicosia Airport has been out of commission and under UN occupation since then!

If you want a better standard of how good a fighting force each side was, take another look at the earlier, 2 day attack on the small contingent (500 men) of the Turkish army stationed in Gonyeli by the joint Greek and National Guard using tanks and artillery! This was the contingent stationed in the island in line with the agreements that allowed them - before the conflict started.
http://www.answers.com/topic/military-o ... -of-cyprus

Turkish paratroopers are dropped at three landing zones in and around the Agyrta-Nicosia enclave on the 20th July, leading to serious casualties at Mia Millia where they are accidentally dropped on Greek Cypriot defensive lines (Drousiotis, 2004).

On the same day, the Cyprus National Guard launches the most massive attack in its history against the Turkish Cypriot-held village of Kioneli, dispatching a full tank battalion, multiple infantry battalions, and with support from the ELDYK battalion. The attack is coordinated with mountain commando battalions and infantry battalions flanking the Agyrta-Nicosia enclave to the north in an effort to isolate it from a Turkish bridgehead. (Drousiotis, 2004)

The formation of the bridgehead depended heavily on Kioneli remaining under Turkish Cypriot control, and both fortifications and anti-tank ditches prevented Greek Cypriot tanks from getting close enough to support an infantry attack. Two Greek Cypriot T-34 tanks were lost in the failed attack, adding to the five lost in Kyrenia on the same day (20th July 1974).

As for the silly remark and its contents earlier about me being clueless(???), I suggest you read what I say before hovering your eyes and running for replies! Furthermore, I believe the above account explains your groundless claim below - who is lying then?:

The National Guard only had a handful of inadequate WWII Soviet T-35 tanks. By the time Turkey invaded only 3 were operational. You bs and lie about the power of the National Guard.

The story of the airport my freind is somehow different. The UN was there all the time supporting with info the Turkish army and the real fact is that UN took over the airport by signining a receipt document to the chief of Greek (ex Creta )commantos-all of them less than 200 people). Turks tried very hard to take over the area and despite the Greek Junta representatives in Cyprus ordered the chief of Commantos to lieve he area he first demanded the official letter from UN in order for them to not be able to transfer the airport to Turks by trick afterwards.

Nevertheless i will agree with you that the defence of Gcs side was a rediculus one but they have may be the excuss of bein trater by their leadership and fanatics