Cyprus-Forum.com

[bigOz]

@bigOZ,

Why do I have to correct you all the time?
a)returning of TCs an masse: Look at the timing:50 years from the 60s. Many people who migrated abroad back then are now becoming pensioners. Where else could they live the rest of their lives like Kings buying a brand new house for as low as 60K?
b)Thrown out of Cyprus in the 60s??? Very questionable. The vast majority of people emigrated for better life. In fact percentagewise the percentage of TCs in UK is proportional to that of the GCs. And most emigration happened before 1963. So if the TCs were thrown out why is their percentage in the UK proportional to that of the GCs?

Pyrpolizer

I think you will find most TCs emigrated after 63. The numbers before 63 were negligible.

Everybody I know around my age group have one thing in common and that is that we all emigrated 64 onwards. And the reason for our emigration was purely for security (or lack of it).

Furthermore you are talking with imagination rather than facts. There are more TCs in UK than GCs, and you have shown no evidence or proof of GCs in London being more than the TCs, never mind being in proportion to their population in Cyprus. I lived in North London in various locations between 1970 and 1985 - shopped and entertained myself from Hackney to Dalston, to Newington Green to Finsbury Park/Manor House, Tottenham, Haringay, Wood Green, Bounds Green, Palmers Green, Winchmore Hill etc.

I assure you TCs owned most of the Cafes, shops, factories, houses in all these areas. If you like I can start to name or point to you you all the TC shops along Green Lanes as in 1973 from Wood Green to Hackney along Green Lanes, and you can point the Greek ones to me!

As mrfromng put rightly, most GCs moved to UK just before 1960. And up until 1964 it was a right proportion of GCs and TCs until things rapidly changed between 1964-1974.

There were no young people left in TC parts of Cyprus because there was no chance of higher education or employment for them. Almost all who left none returned because of security they had in UK. The average age of a policeman in TC part of Cyprus was mid 40s because they could not get young recruits - the same applied for the civil service offices.

Now we have a dozen universities catering for 30,000 students mostly from abroad, and a much better (although not ideal) economic existence where the young do not necessarily need to leave. Add to that the secure environment we are enjoying and hence you can see why a lot of the exiled TCs have started to return back...

There is no truth in your claim that "a vast majority of TCs left before 1963". Again you are making a groundless claim based on imagination - PROVE IT!

You see my friend, there is nothing you can correct me about at any time! Nice try though...

[MR-from-NG]

This for a start:


http://www.photoinsight.org.uk/visual/a ... er%202.pdf

The 1931 census gives the figure of 1,075 Cypriots in Britain, increasing to 10,343 by
1951. The marked increase in the late 1950s is directly related to the active recruitment of
labour by the British government as well as the conflict between the communities in
Cyprus promoted by colonial politics of divide and rule. The next large wave from
Cyprus came in the 1960s after the island became independent. Many Cypriotturkish
people in particular had been loyal to the colonial administration, serving as officers,
policemen, commandos, and auxiliary policemen and were rewarded with British
passports, paid passage to Britain and a lump sum to settle. The 1962 and 1968
Commonwealth immigration legislation was an added impetus for families to settle in
Britain in fear that the gates might close as well as the fresh inter-communal conflicts in
1963 and 1967-1968. The next large wave came as a result of the 1974 military
intervention and occupation of the island by Turkey which led to mass population
exchanges and emigration. Thousands came to Britain but were not recognised as refugees
unlike the Vietnamese who arrived at the same time (Mehmet Ali, 1989). Recognising the
Cypriots as political refugees would have forced the British government into a political
position it was trying to fudge as one of the guarantor powers in the Cyprus conflict
alongside its NATO ally, the invader, Turkey. In contrast, the Vietnamese had to be
accommodated, if not welcomed, because they had fought against the Viet Cong and
communism on the side of Western powers.

I don't see any figures that would make me believe your claim. It clearly says that in early 60s it was ex servicemen (police, auxiliary police) and I would guess their families that emigrated. Well how many were they? How many thousands of TC were in the police force?

Pyrpolizer, I know what I know and that is we emigrated en masse after 63.

[Get Real!]

There are more TCs in UK than GCs, and you have shown no evidence or proof of GCs in London being more than the TCs, never mind being in proportion to their population in Cyprus.

You're asking others for evidence yet post none yourself and proceed to make ridiculous claims. Anyway, according to the National Federation of Cypriots there are 300,000 odd Cypriots in the UK. That's more than the whole TC population both in and out of Cyprus...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_F ... f_Cypriots

[bigOz]

There are more TCs in UK than GCs, and you have shown no evidence or proof of GCs in London being more than the TCs, never mind being in proportion to their population in Cyprus.

You're asking others for evidence yet post none yourself and proceed to make ridiculous claims. Anyway, according to the National Federation of Cypriots there are 300,000 odd Cypriots in the UK. That's more than the whole TC population both in and out of Cyprus...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_F ... f_Cypriots

Try and Get Real for a change man! You are quoting me figures you provide from a Greek Cypriot federation of organisations, whose sole purpose is to exert political influence on UK government and would not hesitate to exaggerate their numbers (the more they sound the more influential they get).

First of all I still insist there are more TCs in UK than GCs until a head count proves me wrong. The figures given in this phony federation are result of same members being repeated in every count. They are quoting "membership" figures and not GC numbers in UK. It also included mainland Greek organisations and not just GCs

The Federation is an overhang group for all Greek or Cypriot Organizations within the UK

If I am to bring all the mainland Turkish Citizens into the equation - they'll double your figures!

The other point you conveniently overlook is; many who are members of say Cypriot Police Association (CPA) are also members of The Hellenic Institute of the UK and many other societies. When this federation reaches their exaggerated figures (probably with an additional zero at the end) they add up the number of members for each Organisation without checking for any duplications or triplications in membership. So a GC who might had their names put down as a member for 5 different societies will count as 5 people in the final figures!

In other words, what you boast as a reliable source of info is nothing but a comical attempt to justify an untrue claim (but then again this has become a tradition with many GCs)

I always show reliable sources, and I can look for just as inflated figures from possible Turkish Cypriot sources - bu I will not bother because they would not be reliable in anyone else's eyes and would make me look like a fool (as is the case with your kind self in this post).

[Get Real!]

First of all I still insist there are more TCs in UK than GCs until a head count proves me wrong.

Unfortunately for you it doesn't work like that because you haven't proven anything yet so this link remains the best source of information we have to date for this thread so shut up and take it like a man.

Secondly, the number of members is clearly 20,000 but you haven't read it and/or your comprehension skills are poor. The figure of 300K clearly states Cypriots not Greeks.

I always show reliable sources,

You show nothing but an obvious imbalance of Torso to IQ ratio and you're getting hyperactive again bigOz... so you'll be hearing more from me.

[Get Real!]

DP

[Pyrpolizer]

@mrfromng

It says "large waves" and "large waves" my friend. And it gives the reasons for those 'large waves". In fact one of those reasons was the commonwealth immigration legislations of 1962 and 1968!! . So how could anyone attribute the Cypriot emigration (especially that which refers to TC emigration) to just the intercommunal events of 1963 and 1967 only?

However when it comes to the 1974 invasion it does not say "large wave" anymore. It says "massive emigration".

Could you please inform bigOZ how much is the estimated number of TCs/GCs in the UK? Or should I call Miltiades for help? Haven't you 2 discussed this in the past and you agreed it was 40,000 to 160,000 respectively?

[bigOz]

First of all I still insist there are more TCs in UK than GCs until a head count proves me wrong.

Unfortunately for you it doesn't work like that because you haven't proven anything yet so this link remains the best source of information we have to date for this thread so shut up and take it like a man.

Secondly, the number of members is clearly 20,000 but you haven't read it and/or your comprehension skills are poor. The figure of 300K clearly states Cypriots not Greeks.

I always show reliable sources,

You show nothing but an obvious imbalance of Torso to IQ ratio and you're getting hyperactive again bigOz... so you'll be hearing more from me.

I can't wait - I find you very entertaining indeed...

AND who counted the 300,000 GCs in London? What is the source? Or is this going to be a case of Turkish Coffee and Greek Coffee.

The truth is no one counted how many GCs or TCs really live in London since they are all recorded as Cypriots on entry. Your sorry attempt to put a figure to it from an unsupperted political Greek source is laughable here let me have a good laugh first:

Stop ranting and tell me where this figure of 300,000 come from? I rather not quote anything rather than make a fool of myself with unsubstantiated quotes! ENDAKSI RE!

[Pyrpolizer]

The point is you can't find even Turkish sources supporting the view that most TCs emigrated in the UK just because of the events of 1963 and 1967. In fact most of them describe the various waves of TC emigration and attribute them exclussively on economic reasons, and the post war economic boom in the UK after the 50s.

Here's a typical example:

1. The Turkish Cypriot Community

The Turkish Cypriot community has been in Hackney the longest. The first immigrants came to England between 1930 and 1950. They came from a rural agricultural background with little knowledge of English and little formal education. (Education beyond the age of twelve was only provided to those who could afford it, and was dominated by the sons of wealthy families).
The original settlers were single men, most obtaining jobs in restaurants and hotels where there was no need to speak or write English. Later on, sisters, and brides-to-be, who would then work alongside their husbands (or brothers) as washers up etc, joined these settlers. Members of this group are now in their 60’s, 70’s and 80’s and they have raised their families in this country.
The second group of settlers came between 1950 and 1970 in the post war boom period of the British economy. Some came over as a direct result of the political events in Cyprus.

[zan]

This for a start:


http://www.photoinsight.org.uk/visual/a ... er%202.pdf

The 1931 census gives the figure of 1,075 Cypriots in Britain, increasing to 10,343 by
1951. The marked increase in the late 1950s is directly related to the active recruitment of
labour by the British government as well as the conflict between the communities in
Cyprus promoted by colonial politics of divide and rule. The next large wave from
Cyprus came in the 1960s after the island became independent. Many Cypriotturkish
people in particular had been loyal to the colonial administration, serving as officers,
policemen, commandos, and auxiliary policemen and were rewarded with British
passports, paid passage to Britain and a lump sum to settle. The 1962 and 1968
Commonwealth immigration legislation was an added impetus for families to settle in
Britain in fear that the gates might close as well as the fresh inter-communal conflicts in
1963 and 1967-1968. The next large wave came as a result of the 1974 military
intervention and occupation of the island by Turkey which led to mass population
exchanges and emigration. Thousands came to Britain but were not recognised as refugees
unlike the Vietnamese who arrived at the same time (Mehmet Ali, 1989). Recognising the
Cypriots as political refugees would have forced the British government into a political
position it was trying to fudge as one of the guarantor powers in the Cyprus conflict
alongside its NATO ally, the invader, Turkey. In contrast, the Vietnamese had to be
accommodated, if not welcomed, because they had fought against the Viet Cong and
communism on the side of Western powers.

I don't know about your family mrfromng but my dad could not wait to get out of a war zone and get to England to work like a dog while we lived in seven people to two rooms and barely able to pay the rent. Ah! Luxury!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a prat this Pyrokikos is