Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Kikapu I have an idea

How about having your boat as your avatar?

Pyro,

You're the man.!!!!

Oh yes, I love that picture. Now I need to figure out, on how to make it to be my avatar.

Thanks Pyro.

Pyro, I owe you one.!!

[bigOz]

Oh...I always assumed you are a GC coz of your nick "kikapu" sounds greek... ^^

Don't let it worry you too much Gizzy. Also ignore our good friends Iceman and mrfromng who tend to get "cranky" when they don't get laid and start acting out. It's a immaturity thing, that they will one day grow out of.

Then again, they are Cypriots, which may mean, that they will never grow out of their immaturity, so kids will be kids with some I'm afraid.

If my memory serves me correctly, only recently another newcomer mistook kikapu for a GC. So kikapu. Carry on with your posts and soon you will have a problem in convincing people that you are in actual fact a TC.

Well of course the new TC's on here will mistaken me for a GC at first mrfromng, for obvious reasons. These are the people who have a hard time accepting the truth, and or, they do not want to do anything, that may go against their best interest, or are too weak to stand up, and tell it the way it is. This what makes Gizzy special, that at age 20, she can see the difference between Right and Wrong, in what is a very complicate situation regarding Cyprus.

I do not have anything to lose by speaking openly and clearly, and everything to gain, my Country of Cyprus, as I see things, and I'm open to be educated on others point of view, if they are not trying to sell me bunch of Horse manure. People are afraid to stand up and say "This is wrong" and these are the reasons for them. A lot of the times, we do not have "hard evidence" on anything, but we are not stupid, and when people talk and say things, then they are evaluated in what they say. Words DO have meanings, therefore we will take them to their words.

It is easy to spot the Liars in this Forum, and the ones who genuinely have concerns, regarding their safety on both sides. It is also easy to see, those who hide behind the "smoke screens" as they make excuses. If someone who shows up new and thinks that I'm a GC, well, that does not offend me, since we are all Cypriot first and foremost. They will learn as time goes bye. This is why, it is important with new comers to read the forum for a month or so, before start posting anything.

You may well be right Kikapu, but the same should apply to everyone so that we do not have an "action replay" for everything!

I believe 3 weeks ago or so I explained extensively the meaning of the noun Kikapu - that included its meaning in America and Swahili language...

With regards to speaking the truth, not many of us are scared to do so! But what the "truth" is - sometimes it depends on your own experience, learning process, perception and beliefs. I would name the most important attribute to EXPERIENCE!

Most of th earguments in this forum (not all of course) are based on very little experience and too much "hear-say"! Hence it is appropriate for people to argue against points raised based on little experience and too much hearsay.

Lats, tale your case and why you had such strong reaction from many TCs. (BTW, a lot of them are still convinced you are not a TC!):

You claimed (as a TC) not to have been in your country for 40 or however many years it has been - I am not sure of the exact figure now - and you decide to travel to Cyprus. Did you only visit the South? Again I did not / do not have the time to read all your posts - so please correct me if I am wrong! Using the military service as the reason, you chose not to go to North. So now, you had a good time in South, never had a chance to see what tose in the North are like, or how they are getting on with their daily lives, yet you decided to make some very wild allegations based on "hearsay"! What response did you expect?

There are couple of flawed assumptions in your evaluations and reasoning. First of all, you mistakenly believe, if you cross the border, they will arrest and enlist you in the army! Is that what the GCs in the South told you? Because, in the past they had said some very ugly things about TCs in the North in an effort to stop tourists from crossing over - as admitted by many such tourists after seeing a completely different picture once they dared to cross the green line!

Someone who has been out of Cyprus all his life, and is a citizen of Switzerland or U.S.A. can visit Noth Cyprus just like any other tourist and go back to their country of origin. There is no danger of them being arrested to do any military service. Only if you decide to live in North Cyprus, you would then be required to do your service. There are rules to protect those who are 50 or over, because they are not expected to play soldiers like the young. I am not sure of the current regulations, but I can find out for you. My brother who lived in london for 45 years, holds a British passport, bought a house in Nicosia and has been spending all his summer holidays out there for the past 40 - no one forced him to serve in the military!

As I said, I can get you the full details - but one would have thought, a TC with relatives living in the North (if any) would have at least made an attempt to find out more before doing what the "girlfriend" demanded, and jumping to conclusions...

As I stated from the beginning of hsi post, at this time, the "truth" for you is what you saw and heard in the South, and the selective reading you've been doing in the Western media for whatever reason.

Kikapu, I am not criticising you in any way! I am trying to point out to the main reason why you had fallen out on the subject with TCs in this forum. The last thing they want is, someone having a holiday in South and coming up with all sorts of one sided allegations.

You claim not to be scared of speaking of the truth and yet I have not seen a single critical view come from you regarding the mistakes made by the GCs, or the atrocities carried out by the EOKA in recent history of this island! On the other hand, you do not hesitate to criticise Turks with a lot of venom. You overlook the presence of EOKA-B supporters and fanatics still present in the South, and blame the TCs for not wanting the Turkish army out until a settlement is reached. Is that the truth or not?

Have you proposed a single positive solution to the current Cyprus problem, besides saying the Turkish army should leave, GC land should be returned, and a joint Cypriot identity should be declared? All is good if everyone agreed to that - but do all the Greeks in the South think the same? Who is dealing or will deal with those fanatics who still have a great hatred for anything Turkish (including TCs) and believe the whole island must have a "Greek" identity rather than the elusive "Cypriot" one?

Even in this forum we have come accross many posts supporting my thesis above - although there are many good GCs with good intentions who may not necessarily agree with the fanatics' views. But can you point to a single law/legislation passed by the GC government recognised as the RoC government in EU that denounces EOKA-B as a terrorist group and makes any propaganda or promotion of such an offence?

Just think a little further, and you may realise that the worries and suspicions by the TCs are not without foundations. No point in criticising TCs for having a hard time realising the truth, when the "truth" you keep referring to is one sided and pretty well biased

[denizaksulu]

Kikapu: Very bad Photomontage. The name appears to have been very badly superimposed. Or you need a new painter. The name is square on whereas the boat seems to be at an angle. I know I am just envious.

[MR-from-NG]

Oh...I always assumed you are a GC coz of your nick "kikapu" sounds greek... ^^

Don't let it worry you too much Gizzy. Also ignore our good friends Iceman and mrfromng who tend to get "cranky" when they don't get laid and start acting out. It's a immaturity thing, that they will one day grow out of.

Then again, they are Cypriots, which may mean, that they will never grow out of their immaturity, so kids will be kids with some I'm afraid.

If my memory serves me correctly, only recently another newcomer mistook kikapu for a GC. So kikapu. Carry on with your posts and soon you will have a problem in convincing people that you are in actual fact a TC.

Well of course the new TC's on here will mistaken me for a GC at first mrfromng, for obvious reasons. These are the people who have a hard time accepting the truth, and or, they do not want to do anything, that may go against their best interest, or are too weak to stand up, and tell it the way it is. This what makes Gizzy special, that at age 20, she can see the difference between Right and Wrong, in what is a very complicate situation regarding Cyprus.

I do not have anything to lose by speaking openly and clearly, and everything to gain, my Country of Cyprus, as I see things, and I'm open to be educated on others point of view, if they are not trying to sell me bunch of Horse manure. People are afraid to stand up and say "This is wrong" and these are the reasons for them. A lot of the times, we do not have "hard evidence" on anything, but we are not stupid, and when people talk and say things, then they are evaluated in what they say. Words DO have meanings, therefore we will take them to their words.

It is easy to spot the Liars in this Forum, and the ones who genuinely have concerns, regarding their safety on both sides. It is also easy to see, those who hide behind the "smoke screens" as they make excuses. If someone who shows up new and thinks that I'm a GC, well, that does not offend me, since we are all Cypriot first and foremost. They will learn as time goes bye. This is why, it is important with new comers to read the forum for a month or so, before start posting anything.

You may well be right Kikapu, but the same should apply to everyone so that we do not have an "action replay" for everything!

I believe 3 weeks ago or so I explained extensively the meaning of the noun Kikapu - that included its meaning in America and Swahili language...

With regards to speaking the truth, not many of us are scared to do so! But what the "truth" is - sometimes it depends on your own experience, learning process, perception and beliefs. I would name the most important attribute to EXPERIENCE!

Most of th earguments in this forum (not all of course) are based on very little experience and too much "hear-say"! Hence it is appropriate for people to argue against points raised based on little experience and too much hearsay.

Lats, tale your case and why you had such strong reaction from many TCs. (BTW, a lot of them are still convinced you are not a TC!):

You claimed (as a TC) not to have been in your country for 40 or however many years it has been - I am not sure of the exact figure now - and you decide to travel to Cyprus. Did you only visit the South? Again I did not / do not have the time to read all your posts - so please correct me if I am wrong! Using the military service as the reason, you chose not to go to North. So now, you had a good time in South, never had a chance to see what tose in the North are like, or how they are getting on with their daily lives, yet you decided to make some very wild allegations based on "hearsay"! What response did you expect?

There are couple of flawed assumptions in your evaluations and reasoning. First of all, you mistakenly believe, if you cross the border, they will arrest and enlist you in the army! Is that what the GCs in the South told you? Because, in the past they had said some very ugly things about TCs in the North in an effort to stop tourists from crossing over - as admitted by many such tourists after seeing a completely different picture once they dared to cross the green line!

Someone who has been out of Cyprus all his life, and is a citizen of Switzerland or U.S.A. can visit Noth Cyprus just like any other tourist and go back to their country of origin. There is no danger of them being arrested to do any military service. Only if you decide to live in North Cyprus, you would then be required to do your service. There are rules to protect those who are 50 or over, because they are not expected to play soldiers like the young. I am not sure of the current regulations, but I can find out for you. My brother who lived in london for 45 years, holds a British passport, bought a house in Nicosia and has been spending all his summer holidays out there for the past 40 - no one forced him to serve in the military!

As I said, I can get you the full details - but one would have thought, a TC with relatives living in the North (if any) would have at least made an attempt to find out more before doing what the "girlfriend" demanded, and jumping to conclusions...

As I stated from the beginning of hsi post, at this time, the "truth" for you is what you saw and heard in the South, and the selective reading you've been doing in the Western media for whatever reason.

Kikapu, I am not criticising you in any way! I am trying to point out to the main reason why you had fallen out on the subject with TCs in this forum. The last thing they want is, someone having a holiday in South and coming up with all sorts of one sided allegations.

You claim not to be scared of speaking of the truth and yet I have not seen a single critical view come from you regarding the mistakes made by the GCs, or the atrocities carried out by the EOKA in recent history of this island! On the other hand, you do not hesitate to criticise Turks with a lot of venom. You overlook the presence of EOKA-B supporters and fanatics still present in the South, and blame the TCs for not wanting the Turkish army out until a settlement is reached. Is that the truth or not?

Have you proposed a single positive solution to the current Cyprus problem, besides saying the Turkish army should leave, GC land should be returned, and a joint Cypriot identity should be declared? All is good if everyone agreed to that - but do all the Greeks in the South think the same? Who is dealing or will deal with those fanatics who still have a great hatred for anything Turkish (including TCs) and believe the whole island must have a "Greek" identity rather than the elusive "Cypriot" one?

Even in this forum we have come accross many posts supporting my thesis above - although there are many good GCs with good intentions who may not necessarily agree with the fanatics' views. But can you point to a single law/legislation passed by the GC government recognised as the RoC government in EU that denounces EOKA-B as a terrorist group and makes any propaganda or promotion of such an offence?

Just think a little further, and you may realise that the worries and suspicions by the TCs are not without foundations. No point in criticising TCs for having a hard time realising the truth, when the "truth" you keep referring to is one sided and pretty well biased

Very well put bigOz.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu: Very bad Photomontage. The name appears to have been very badly superimposed. Or you need a new painter. The name is square on whereas the boat seems to be at an angle. I know I am just envious.

I hope you are not saying, that I claimed this to be my boat. I'm just taking it as a "gift" from our friend Pyro, who provided the picture. Sure I can see the name "kikapu" being superimposed. Perhaps one of these days, I can put the real thing in my Avatar instead, but it won't have the same "action shot" as the one it's there now.

By the way denizaksulu, if you look very closely, you will see that the water in the picture is from the Pacific Ocean and not the Atlantic Ocean.

[Kikapu]

You may well be right Kikapu, but the same should apply to everyone so that we do not have an "action replay" for everything!

I believe 3 weeks ago or so I explained extensively the meaning of the noun Kikapu - that included its meaning in America and Swahili language...

With regards to speaking the truth, not many of us are scared to do so! But what the "truth" is - sometimes it depends on your own experience, learning process, perception and beliefs. I would name the most important attribute to EXPERIENCE!

Most of th earguments in this forum (not all of course) are based on very little experience and too much "hear-say"! Hence it is appropriate for people to argue against points raised based on little experience and too much hearsay.

Lats, tale your case and why you had such strong reaction from many TCs. (BTW, a lot of them are still convinced you are not a TC!):

You claimed (as a TC) not to have been in your country for 40 or however many years it has been - I am not sure of the exact figure now - and you decide to travel to Cyprus. Did you only visit the South? Again I did not / do not have the time to read all your posts - so please correct me if I am wrong! Using the military service as the reason, you chose not to go to North. So now, you had a good time in South, never had a chance to see what tose in the North are like, or how they are getting on with their daily lives, yet you decided to make some very wild allegations based on "hearsay"! What response did you expect?

There are couple of flawed assumptions in your evaluations and reasoning. First of all, you mistakenly believe, if you cross the border, they will arrest and enlist you in the army! Is that what the GCs in the South told you? Because, in the past they had said some very ugly things about TCs in the North in an effort to stop tourists from crossing over - as admitted by many such tourists after seeing a completely different picture once they dared to cross the green line!

Someone who has been out of Cyprus all his life, and is a citizen of Switzerland or U.S.A. can visit Noth Cyprus just like any other tourist and go back to their country of origin. There is no danger of them being arrested to do any military service. Only if you decide to live in North Cyprus, you would then be required to do your service. There are rules to protect those who are 50 or over, because they are not expected to play soldiers like the young. I am not sure of the current regulations, but I can find out for you. My brother who lived in london for 45 years, holds a British passport, bought a house in Nicosia and has been spending all his summer holidays out there for the past 40 - no one forced him to serve in the military!

As I said, I can get you the full details - but one would have thought, a TC with relatives living in the North (if any) would have at least made an attempt to find out more before doing what the "girlfriend" demanded, and jumping to conclusions...

As I stated from the beginning of hsi post, at this time, the "truth" for you is what you saw and heard in the South, and the selective reading you've been doing in the Western media for whatever reason.

Kikapu, I am not criticising you in any way! I am trying to point out to the main reason why you had fallen out on the subject with TCs in this forum. The last thing they want is, someone having a holiday in South and coming up with all sorts of one sided allegations.

You claim not to be scared of speaking of the truth and yet I have not seen a single critical view come from you regarding the mistakes made by the GCs, or the atrocities carried out by the EOKA in recent history of this island! On the other hand, you do not hesitate to criticise Turks with a lot of venom. You overlook the presence of EOKA-B supporters and fanatics still present in the South, and blame the TCs for not wanting the Turkish army out until a settlement is reached. Is that the truth or not?

Have you proposed a single positive solution to the current Cyprus problem, besides saying the Turkish army should leave, GC land should be returned, and a joint Cypriot identity should be declared? All is good if everyone agreed to that - but do all the Greeks in the South think the same? Who is dealing or will deal with those fanatics who still have a great hatred for anything Turkish (including TCs) and believe the whole island must have a "Greek" identity rather than the elusive "Cypriot" one?

Even in this forum we have come accross many posts supporting my thesis above - although there are many good GCs with good intentions who may not necessarily agree with the fanatics' views. But can you point to a single law/legislation passed by the GC government recognised as the RoC government in EU that denounces EOKA-B as a terrorist group and makes any propaganda or promotion of such an offence?

Just think a little further, and you may realise that the worries and suspicions by the TCs are not without foundations. No point in criticising TCs for having a hard time realising the truth, when the "truth" you keep referring to is one sided and pretty well biased

Thanks for your lengthy post BigOz. The problem now is to try and answer all your points in the right order.

My first six month on this forum was in very much in line with the US v THEM attitude. I had many disagreements with most members from the GC side. Perhaps it had to do with the things one hears from family and friends towards GC's, and also my experience as a child, in Cyprus during the 1963 that I felt like, that I should be a "team player", which in real life, I'm really a individualist and do fall into the "sheep mentality".

When growing up in London in the 60's and 70's, we were exposed to a lot of Racism against the Blacks and Greeks in General. We had TV shows that were Racist, as well as Politicians towards Blacks. So it was easy to have certain Racist views towards the GC's, because of what we had experienced in Cyprus and what we were told by Adults and friends alike, but at the same time, we would work, eat, trade, attend school with the GC's in the UK. To this day, I think back to the days, where I would make Racist jokes and think they were funny. In college a Black friend said to me one day, "you know, I really like that Greek girl over there" which I said to him "Byron, are you serious, I mean, you are Black and she is white and on top, she is also a Greek". I have never forgotten that look on his face, that I could make such a comment.

Over the years living in the States for 25 years and meeting people all over the world, has opened my eyes, as to what people mean to me. Despite certain degree of Racism in the States toward the Blacks and Mexicans. I was fortunate to have settled in the great city of San Francisco, which was to shape my thinking on Human Rights and equality for all. Within a short time, I was able to see people as people and not form an opinion of their origin or the colour of their skin. I have understood the meaning of forgiveness and that it was better to look forward that behind you. I learned more about myself and who I was. I was able to "love" myself and was able to return "love " to others. In short, I did not see anyone as a "enemy", but just someone who had different point of view.

25 years of being away from constant interaction with my own TC community has helped me to form my own opinions and not the opinions of my community only. I never left my community for something better, but was able to look at it from outside. Many things I liked about my community and many things that I did not like. Often I will disagree with my father, but my mother will always come to me and say " what can you do, he is the way he is and he is also your father, you can't change that". She was always right of course, certain people are the way they are, because of the way, that they have been structured in their thinking. How much does this have to do with the way ones community thinks, is a good question. I believe it has a lot to do with, in the way ones community thinks. So in short, I think outside what the general wisdom of my community.

So what is the point of the above you may ask.??

The point is, what I say on the forum that does not fit in with the norms of the Turkish Community is because I do not think the same way as the majority does. As I said above, I'm an individualist, so just because I do not follow the TC crowd all the time, does not make me into another person, ie, a GC. When people do that, it is one of the things that I do not like about our community's way of thinking. Perhaps it is the same everywhere. If I talk about having a peaceful Cyprus with all peoples rights and lives returned to be normal once again, both for TC's and GC's, and not give into those who would rather live of the misery of others, despite our past history in Cyprus, at the end of the day, we are all Cypriots and we are all flesh and blood. Does this make me blind to certain realities that are still there, which may cause further dangers to the TC community, and the answer is NO. Can the dangers be limited and build trust through cooperation and restoring every ones rights in a fair and humane way, and the answer is YES. This not only has to happen from the GC's but also from the TC's. Most TC's on this forum expect all this to happen from the GC's. This is when I speak out and say things that comes across, as if I'm anti TC and pro GC. Quite frankly, I really don't care which way I sound, if I can get the results for a United Cyprus. If I sound more towards the GC's at times, it is only because, it has been misinterpreted, because I'm against the Racist and inaccurate statements that are made by Zan and VP. They are on this forum, only for Propaganda Purpose. It is too bad that their genuine messages gets lost in all the other Propaganda that they spread here. When one is caught lying, then I have a hard time seeing them beyond that, specially when they do not admit to their lies, but just continue as they are, as if nothing has happened. Well my friend, I have a very good memory and do not forget anything very easily, but always willing to forgive and apologise, when warranted.

OK, lets talk about my Cyprus trip. I wanted to go last year, in 2006 but after corresponding with one of the leading politicians in the "TRNC", I was told not to come, because of the military service issues. I have the letter in front of me now. I have a British and American citizenship's, but if the "TRNC" wanted to keep me there to do a military service since I'm over the age of 49, then there would be nothing the countries of my citizenship, could do anything about it. I have gave few examples before, as to what is written in my passports. After several calls to the "ASAL SUBE", it was very clear, that I will have to do the MS, even though not right away, but would have to make arrangements for another time, plus pays few thousands of £££££. I was willing to do this and said so, few months before I came to Cyprus. All this changed for me, when my brother in London paid a visit to the "TRNC" office, which he was told, that due to my age, it was POSSIBLE that depending who was working at the time, that I could be refused an EXIT visa and made to do my military right there and then. It is possible, that nothing would have happened, but I was not at all assured of anything, when the terms and conditions were changing like sand dunes, depending who you talked to and when. You tell me BigOz, would you have entered the "TRNC" if you were going on a holiday someplace, in which my main purpose was to sort out my mothers land in the RoC, and I was also travelling with my girlfriend. Would you have taken a risk, that you may be held against your will. If the answer is YES, then you are more brave than I'm.

The decision of not to travel to the "TRNC" was made weeks before I came to Cyprus, but once again, you have fallen into the trap of thinking, that it was the GC's that has changed my mind about going to the "TRNC", once I arrived there. Thinking like a TC community would want you to think BigOz. I have written my whole trip to the RoC in full detail, and yes, we did have a very good time there, despite all my concerns before going there. I only wrote what I had experienced, and not what I did not experience. I had not visited the "TRNC" therefore I had not made any comments about from my own experience about how life is there, other than, what I was told in very clear language by the husband of my cousin, who do live in the "TRNC" and is a Partitionist. Forgive me, but if I'm suppose to accept the words of some of the Partitonist on the forum as being fact, which I do question them most of the time, then I will take everything the "husband" said, over the others.

I do not have any influence in what the politicians do on either side, but I'm expected to know what will the GC's will do, to help the situation in Cyprus. I'm sorry, I though we have elected people in the "TRNC", who were suppose to find a solution. I voice my concerns and displeasure's about my own community and let the GC's do the same regarding theirs. My proposal would be to walk away from the 1960 Constitution and form a Federal system with one Federal Government and two States, with land distributed to the population size based at the time of the 1960 Constitution. I would like the USA form of government and system for us in Cyprus. All the fine details needs to be worked out of course, but in general, that would be a good starting point. This will mean of course, that we cannot have the provisions that are now in the Constitution, and if we are going to live like the rest of the people in the West, then we will have to accept our numbers are less than the GC's. For such a small island as Cyprus is, it is like two fleas fighting over, who the dog belongs to, rather than share it together. There's plenty of room for everyone, but are we all willing to do that, or do we just want to kill the dog and take one part for ourselves and the GC's to take the other part. I'm willing to share the dog and I do not care which part of the dog I'm sleeping on, because the whole dog belongs to me, and not only part of it. So when I went to Cyprus, that's where I went, and not to the South, as if it is no longer my country.

I'm not going to convince anyone as to what they may think as to who I am. I do not hide facts like most do on this forum. It took VP two years to tell us, that he was born in the UK and not in Cyprus, then we learned, that he only came to Cyprus 15 years ago. It is these people you need to question, as to why do they live in such a secretive lives and are afraid to tell us who they really are. They are always wanting to wear the mask, and they have the audaciy to question as to who I am. We don't need to know names and addresses or their profession, but just basic information as to where one is born, is the least we can expect. Since coming to the forum a year ago, you can find all you want about me, so the question you have to ask yourself is, are those information's are a lie or the truth. I can only write what I know, it is up to the rest, to either disprove it, or accept it. Show me another TC on this forum, who has been as open as myself.

Are we ever going to have a perfect solution to the Cyprus Problem, and the answer is NO. Can we have a much better solution than the present situation, and the answer is YES. If we all wait for the 100% problem proof solution, it is not going to happen. A lot of frogs need to be kissed, before we can find a Price, so we need to try anything and everything, to find a solution, but if those who do not want a solution, because they put their own GREED before the countries, then I will always point out the GREEDY, and their reluctance to move forward.

If I did not answer any of your questions BigOz, please let me know.

[DT.]

epic post kikapu!

[Kikapu]

epic post kikapu!

Sorry DT, but some people no longer accept the words "Trust me" anymore, so I'm forced to "spoon feed" them the truth.

[MR-from-NG]

You may well be right Kikapu, but the same should apply to everyone so that we do not have an "action replay" for everything!

I believe 3 weeks ago or so I explained extensively the meaning of the noun Kikapu - that included its meaning in America and Swahili language...

With regards to speaking the truth, not many of us are scared to do so! But what the "truth" is - sometimes it depends on your own experience, learning process, perception and beliefs. I would name the most important attribute to EXPERIENCE!

Most of th earguments in this forum (not all of course) are based on very little experience and too much "hear-say"! Hence it is appropriate for people to argue against points raised based on little experience and too much hearsay.

Lats, tale your case and why you had such strong reaction from many TCs. (BTW, a lot of them are still convinced you are not a TC!):

You claimed (as a TC) not to have been in your country for 40 or however many years it has been - I am not sure of the exact figure now - and you decide to travel to Cyprus. Did you only visit the South? Again I did not / do not have the time to read all your posts - so please correct me if I am wrong! Using the military service as the reason, you chose not to go to North. So now, you had a good time in South, never had a chance to see what tose in the North are like, or how they are getting on with their daily lives, yet you decided to make some very wild allegations based on "hearsay"! What response did you expect?

There are couple of flawed assumptions in your evaluations and reasoning. First of all, you mistakenly believe, if you cross the border, they will arrest and enlist you in the army! Is that what the GCs in the South told you? Because, in the past they had said some very ugly things about TCs in the North in an effort to stop tourists from crossing over - as admitted by many such tourists after seeing a completely different picture once they dared to cross the green line!

Someone who has been out of Cyprus all his life, and is a citizen of Switzerland or U.S.A. can visit Noth Cyprus just like any other tourist and go back to their country of origin. There is no danger of them being arrested to do any military service. Only if you decide to live in North Cyprus, you would then be required to do your service. There are rules to protect those who are 50 or over, because they are not expected to play soldiers like the young. I am not sure of the current regulations, but I can find out for you. My brother who lived in london for 45 years, holds a British passport, bought a house in Nicosia and has been spending all his summer holidays out there for the past 40 - no one forced him to serve in the military!

As I said, I can get you the full details - but one would have thought, a TC with relatives living in the North (if any) would have at least made an attempt to find out more before doing what the "girlfriend" demanded, and jumping to conclusions...

As I stated from the beginning of hsi post, at this time, the "truth" for you is what you saw and heard in the South, and the selective reading you've been doing in the Western media for whatever reason.

Kikapu, I am not criticising you in any way! I am trying to point out to the main reason why you had fallen out on the subject with TCs in this forum. The last thing they want is, someone having a holiday in South and coming up with all sorts of one sided allegations.

You claim not to be scared of speaking of the truth and yet I have not seen a single critical view come from you regarding the mistakes made by the GCs, or the atrocities carried out by the EOKA in recent history of this island! On the other hand, you do not hesitate to criticise Turks with a lot of venom. You overlook the presence of EOKA-B supporters and fanatics still present in the South, and blame the TCs for not wanting the Turkish army out until a settlement is reached. Is that the truth or not?

Have you proposed a single positive solution to the current Cyprus problem, besides saying the Turkish army should leave, GC land should be returned, and a joint Cypriot identity should be declared? All is good if everyone agreed to that - but do all the Greeks in the South think the same? Who is dealing or will deal with those fanatics who still have a great hatred for anything Turkish (including TCs) and believe the whole island must have a "Greek" identity rather than the elusive "Cypriot" one?

Even in this forum we have come accross many posts supporting my thesis above - although there are many good GCs with good intentions who may not necessarily agree with the fanatics' views. But can you point to a single law/legislation passed by the GC government recognised as the RoC government in EU that denounces EOKA-B as a terrorist group and makes any propaganda or promotion of such an offence?

Just think a little further, and you may realise that the worries and suspicions by the TCs are not without foundations. No point in criticising TCs for having a hard time realising the truth, when the "truth" you keep referring to is one sided and pretty well biased

Thanks for your lengthy post BigOz. The problem now is to try and answer all your points in the right order.

My first six month on this forum was in very much in line with the US v THEM attitude. I had many disagreements with most members from the GC side. Perhaps it had to do with the things one hears from family and friends towards GC's, and also my experience as a child, in Cyprus during the 1963 that I felt like, that I should be a "team player", which in real life, I'm really a individualist and do fall into the "sheep mentality".

When growing up in London in the 60's and 70's, we were exposed to a lot of Racism against the Blacks and Greeks in General. We had TV shows that were Racist, as well as Politicians towards Blacks. So it was easy to have certain Racist views towards the GC's, because of what we had experienced in Cyprus and what we were told by Adults and friends alike, but at the same time, we would work, eat, trade, attend school with the GC's in the UK. To this day, I think back to the days, where I would make Racist jokes and think they were funny. In college a Black friend said to me one day, "you know, I really like that Greek girl over there" which I said to him "Byron, are you serious, I mean, you are Black and she is white and on top, she is also a Greek". I have never forgotten that look on his face, that I could make such a comment.

Over the years living in the States for 25 years and meeting people all over the world, has opened my eyes, as to what people mean to me. Despite certain degree of Racism in the States toward the Blacks and Mexicans. I was fortunate to have settled in the great city of San Francisco, which was to shape my thinking on Human Rights and equality for all. Within a short time, I was able to see people as people and not form an opinion of their origin or the colour of their skin. I have understood the meaning of forgiveness and that it was better to look forward that behind you. I learned more about myself and who I was. I was able to "love" myself and was able to return "love " to others. In short, I did not see anyone as a "enemy", but just someone who had different point of view.

25 years of being away from constant interaction with my own TC community has helped me to form my own opinions and not the opinions of my community only. I never left my community for something better, but was able to look at it from outside. Many things I liked about my community and many things that I did not like. Often I will disagree with my father, but my mother will always come to me and say " what can you do, he is the way he is and he is also your father, you can't change that". She was always right of course, certain people are the way they are, because of the way, that they have been structured in their thinking. How much does this have to do with the way ones community thinks, is a good question. I believe it has a lot to do with, in the way ones community thinks. So in short, I think outside what the general wisdom of my community.

So what is the point of the above you may ask.??

The point is, what I say on the forum that does not fit in with the norms of the Turkish Community is because I do not think the same way as the majority does. As I said above, I'm an individualist, so just because I do not follow the TC crowd all the time, does not make me into another person, ie, a GC. When people do that, it is one of the things that I do not like about our community's way of thinking. Perhaps it is the same everywhere. If I talk about having a peaceful Cyprus with all peoples rights and lives returned to be normal once again, both for TC's and GC's, and not give into those who would rather live of the misery of others, despite our past history in Cyprus, at the end of the day, we are all Cypriots and we are all flesh and blood. Does this make me blind to certain realities that are still there, which may cause further dangers to the TC community, and the answer is NO. Can the dangers be limited and build trust through cooperation and restoring every ones rights in a fair and humane way, and the answer is YES. This not only has to happen from the GC's but also from the TC's. Most TC's on this forum expect all this to happen from the GC's. This is when I speak out and say things that comes across, as if I'm anti TC and pro GC. Quite frankly, I really don't care which way I sound, if I can get the results for a United Cyprus. If I sound more towards the GC's at times, it is only because, it has been misinterpreted, because I'm against the Racist and inaccurate statements that are made by Zan and VP. They are on this forum, only for Propaganda Purpose. It is too bad that their genuine messages gets lost in all the other Propaganda that they spread here. When one is caught lying, then I have a hard time seeing them beyond that, specially when they do not admit to their lies, but just continue as they are, as if nothing has happened. Well my friend, I have a very good memory and do not forget anything very easily, but always willing to forgive and apologise, when warranted.

OK, lets talk about my Cyprus trip. I wanted to go last year, in 2006 but after corresponding with one of the leading politicians in the "TRNC", I was told not to come, because of the military service issues. I have the letter in front of me now. I have a British and American citizenship's, but if the "TRNC" wanted to keep me there to do a military service since I'm over the age of 49, then there would be nothing the countries of my citizenship, could do anything about it. I have gave few examples before, as to what is written in my passports. After several calls to the "ASAL SUBE", it was very clear, that I will have to do the MS, even though not right away, but would have to make arrangements for another time, plus pays few thousands of £££££. I was willing to do this and said so, few months before I came to Cyprus. All this changed for me, when my brother in London paid a visit to the "TRNC" office, which he was told, that due to my age, it was POSSIBLE that depending who was working at the time, that I could be refused an EXIT visa and made to do my military right there and then. It is possible, that nothing would have happened, but I was not at all assured of anything, when the terms and conditions were changing like sand dunes, depending who you talked to and when. You tell me BigOz, would you have entered the "TRNC" if you were going on a holiday someplace, in which my main purpose was to sort out my mothers land in the RoC, and I was also travelling with my girlfriend. Would you have taken a risk, that you may be held against your will. If the answer is YES, then you are more brave than I'm.

The decision of not to travel to the "TRNC" was made weeks before I came to Cyprus, but once again, you have fallen into the trap of thinking, that it was the GC's that has changed my mind about going to the "TRNC", once I arrived there. Thinking like a TC community would want you to think BigOz. I have written my whole trip to the RoC in full detail, and yes, we did have a very good time there, despite all my concerns before going there. I only wrote what I had experienced, and not what I did not experience. I had not visited the "TRNC" therefore I had not made any comments about from my own experience about how life is there, other than, what I was told in very clear language by the husband of my cousin, who do live in the "TRNC" and is a Partitionist. Forgive me, but if I'm suppose to accept the words of some of the Partitonist on the forum as being fact, which I do question them most of the time, then I will take everything the "husband" said, over the others.

I do not have any influence in what the politicians do on either side, but I'm expected to know what will the GC's will do, to help the situation in Cyprus. I'm sorry, I though we have elected people in the "TRNC", who were suppose to find a solution. I voice my concerns and displeasure's about my own community and let the GC's do the same regarding theirs. My proposal would be to walk away from the 1960 Constitution and form a Federal system with one Federal Government and two States, with land distributed to the population size based at the time of the 1960 Constitution. I would like the USA form of government and system for us in Cyprus. All the fine details needs to be worked out of course, but in general, that would be a good starting point. This will mean of course, that we cannot have the provisions that are now in the Constitution, and if we are going to live like the rest of the people in the West, then we will have to accept our numbers are less than the GC's. For such a small island as Cyprus is, it is like two fleas fighting over, who the dog belongs to, rather than share it together. There's plenty of room for everyone, but are we all willing to do that, or do we just want to kill the dog and take one part for ourselves and the GC's to take the other part. I'm willing to share the dog and I do not care which part of the dog I'm sleeping on, because the whole dog belongs to me, and not only part of it. So when I went to Cyprus, that's where I went, and not to the South, as if it is no longer my country.

I'm not going to convince anyone as to what they may think as to who I am. I do not hide facts like most do on this forum. It took VP two years to tell us, that he was born in the UK and not in Cyprus, then we learned, that he only came to Cyprus 15 years ago. It is these people you need to question, as to why do they live in such a secretive lives and are afraid to tell us who they really are. They are always wanting to wear the mask, and they have the audaciy to question as to who I am. We don't need to know names and addresses or their profession, but just basic information as to where one is born, is the least we can expect. Since coming to the forum a year ago, you can find all you want about me, so the question you have to ask yourself is, are those information's are a lie or the truth. I can only write what I know, it is up to the rest, to either disprove it, or accept it. Show me another TC on this forum, who has been as open as myself.

Are we ever going to have a perfect solution to the Cyprus Problem, and the answer is NO. Can we have a much better solution than the present situation, and the answer is YES. If we all wait for the 100% problem proof solution, it is not going to happen. A lot of frogs need to be kissed, before we can find a Price, so we need to try anything and everything, to find a solution, but if those who do not want a solution, because they put their own GREED before the countries, then I will always point out the GREEDY, and their reluctance to move forward.

If I did not answer any of your questions BigOz, please let me know.

I stopped reading kikapus posts, with all the wise-cracks and all that shit, just can't be bothered. Perhaps we can have a synopsis.

[DT.]

Perhaps we can have a synopsis.

didn't know you spoke greek Mrfromng..