Kikapu wrote:bigOz wrote:Thank you for going through the trouble of explaining your current position and why you may have been misunderstood or attacked by most TCs in this forum. It is good to communicate at this level...
I agree with most of the things you have pointed to, but again, you are confusing your own personal experiences and views with that of general ones. If I may explain it in more detail, you might appreciate what I am saying a little more:
I spent all of 1970s in UK going through college and Uni education. During that period I never came across any racism against Greeks either from people living there or in the media. On the contrary, the UK educational system was very pro-Greek, because Greek mythology was a big part of their high school teachings. Blacks? Yes - I agree on that but the claim
abaout racism against Greeks I totally disagree on. It could well have been your own feelings, because none of my friends and myself had any racist views against Greeks either. As I repeatedly expressed in my previous posts, GC and TC students worked together perfectly well under various cultural and sports activities - even after the 1974 invasion!If I talk about having a peaceful Cyprus with all peoples rights and lives returned to be normal once again, both for TC's and GC's, and not give into those who would rather live of the misery of others, despite our past history in Cyprus, at the end of the day, we are all Cypriots and we are all flesh and blood. Does this make me blind to certain realities that are still there, which may cause further dangers to the TC community, and the answer is NO
I am afraid you are wrong there - currently the answer is YES, because you are avoiding certain realities. Perhaps you should read some of the fanatic GC posts in this forum to expand your views. I would have agreed with you whole-heartedly on the above, if it weren't for the fact that not many GCs feel the same was as you stated in your paragraph above - again, examples are plenty in this forum.
Just to give you couple of examples of many: Around four weeks ago, in a football game between two GC sides, a Greek paper showed pictures of GC youth holding out a banner in the terraces saying "EOKA hit them one more time!", as well picture of other youths surrounding the banner, posing with a Nazi salutes!
Few weeks ago, a young TC boy and a girl attending the English school in the Greek part of Nicosia, got beat very badly by GC thugs for being TCs. These kids were sent there by TC families who believed in a united Cyprus like you do. Guess how they are feeling now?
Let me ask you a question you can answer without alluding to anything else. How often do you follow local news in Cyprus and how often do you hear of such goings on? If not very often, then I hope you realise how ill informed and wrong you can be in your evaluations. That is why you may really be "blind to certain realities that are still there, which may cause further dangers to the TC community" - as you put it in your post.You tell me BigOz, would you have entered the "TRNC" if you were going on a holiday someplace, in which my main purpose was to sort out my mothers land in the RoC, and I was also travelling with my girlfriend.
I still say you were ill informed on this subject. You may need to have some kind of exemption form from the "Asal sube", each time you leave the country because they do not know if you have come to settle or just for a brief holiday. Most TCs do stay for months before returning to their country of residence. I shall enquire and inform you on what the military requirements are. Perhaps one of the other TCs who may know more can throw light to this subject. But if I am not mistaken, similar rules are in power for military service for the GCs in the Greek side! A visit to TRNC may help you view things from both perspectives.
By the way, I did not follow your posts, so I hope you do not mind me asking you: Did you end up selling your land to a GC in the end or did you just claimed your deeds for it?
As for my family property in Paphos, Evdim, Kukla, Paramal and Alektora (houses, business premises, hundreds of donums of wineyards, bananas) I had given up long time ago for having the security of sleeping without fear of my children getting killed. What I am finding hard to accept is not knowing what has happened to my sister's grave in the TC cemetery that has been turned into a car Park!
BigOz,
I did not say, that there were Racist TV shows or politicians towards the Greeks, but only towards the Blacks or the Coloured as it was known back then. Even though the GC's and TC's did a lot of things together in the same neighbourhoods in London, there was always a limit just how close a TC can get to the GC's. The reminders of 63 was always there, so there was some hate and Racism was always there. I suppose the same was the case from the GC's after the 74 Invasion and the division of the island. You say that, there was no Racism back then, then all I have to do is show you Zan, VP, Mrfromng, and even you at times come across a little racist towards the GC's. It appears we are all products of the same time period, all living in the UK, and I moved away to the States away from the Turkish Community, while the rest of you stayed. Let me also include my good friend Birkibrisli, who went to live in Australia in 68. Now how is it, that Bir and I see GC's differently then the rest of you four.??? Perhaps something need to be said towards the influence of ones community that you four think differently than Bir and me. I'm only trying to point out the contrast between you four and us two, and yet Bir and I have been through the 63 era first hand, where as some of you were either too young to remember or were not there at all, and despite of all that, we are willing to see a United Cyprus for all Cypriots to build a country for their future, and then there are others, who do not care.
You can quote isolated incidents as much as you want to make a case for Partition, but it really does not do justice at all to hundreds of thousands of others, who just want to live their lives in peace. All you're doing, is nothing more than promoting more hate and mistrust, when these are very isolated cases. You are not going to win everyone over, either from the GC side or the TC side. I guess this the cost of doing business as they say, when not everyone is going to cooperate to be civilized, but over time, their numbers will be reduced to almost nothing. I'm sure you can still find some Hitler Type Nazis in Germany holding their meetings in some remote places. Time will take care of these people, so don't worry too much about these few isolated incidents.
The only local news I get from the "TRNC", are from VP, Zan and few others on the forum. Halil proposed to post some regularly, but has not done so yet.
Vp and Zan tell us all sort of things, regarding the North. People have money and are comfortable some days, and the reverse other times. BMW can't keep cars in their show rooms long enough to collect dust, as well as flat screen TV's are selling like hot cakes. The next day Zan cries that the RoC is persecuting his people. One day people are getting rich by selling off GC land, and the next day, they are getting a hand out from Turkey, so how can we tell Turkey to leave. If you have a truly independent paper in the "TRNC" that tells both side of the story, I'm willing to read, but as VP said, if most people are for the partition and the paper is going to support that view, in line with the authorities, than what's the point reading that, when I get that crap all day long from the Partitionist on the forum. So please, give me a site to go and read, then I will tell you within a few days, as to what I think of their local news.
No, we have not sold any land. My mother wants to keep them, until she passes away, to answer your above question. I also hear it is a "taboo" for any TC who lives in the "TRNC" to sell any land, in a "creative way", in the South. Is this true.??
I'm sorry BigOz, but your last paragraph is nothing but Propaganda. I can not take anything you said very seriously, aside from your sister's grave.
Here is something for you to read. When ever Zan and VP question me on the Military issue and I give them this to read, they never respond. http://www.guvkk.net/asal/askeralma_ENG.htm ..please pay special attention to PART III ..Q 3 and A 3 (c). You can find more information if you like for me BigOz, and I will believe what you will tell me to be the truth, as it was told to you, but it will be different than what was said before many times. In short, the "Asal Sube can't get their SHIT together, therefore I can not trust them.
I did not bother to read past the first two sentences on this post because it is as mixed up as usual. If you cannot be bothered to understand what we have been telling you for so long now why the hell should I read your posts. We have been telling you that the embargoes have caused hardship but have not worked to the extent of starving us out which is what you would like to happen to your own people. The money that is going around to date is through an unstable economy. If you cannot understand the difference between the two then what can I tell you. We are telling you that we can survive for an indefinite time just as we are but not without the aid of Turkey. Through Turkeys grants and through some trade some money is being made and will be made. We will not surrender. Is that any clearer for you to understand? You are so full of hate that you refuse to understand anything. You just want to make your point and nothing else seems to matter to you. You lie and cheat your way to make that point and quite frankly I have had enough. I have been asked to watch what I say to you and I have respected that persons wishes for a while but can see, and hope that that person can see that your agenda is very different to a majority of TCs. I have no idea who or what the hell you are but I do know that you are not for the TCS or for the Cypriots. You are for the GCS for reasons only known to you and that is fine because that makes my job simpler. See you on the other side and those that have grouped to attack us.
