Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

You probably do not to realise that what is a "red line" for the TCs (and Turkey) is not political equality, but numerical equalisation instead!

You also probably do not realise that besides numerical equalisation (i.e. levelling-out,) they also have some other "red lines," equally illegitimate and unacceptable for the GCs, such as their ambition to run the north 30% exclusively by themselves, on a Turkic ethnic basis and in a monoculture fashion, along the principles and lines on which kemalist Turkey is run! You also do not seem to realise that they not only want most settlers to stay, but more importantly they want them to acquire Cypriot citizenship, and this is another one of their "red lines!" You also do not seem to realise that all these they managed to secure them in the Annan plan, if you have read and digested it!

Kifeas, no need to get agitated! You know where you stand and I know where I stand. Political equality may mean one thing to you but it means another to me and the majority of people. You mean political equality in terms of one person, one vote, what you forget to mention though is that what you are proposing is in fact a unitary state and not a federal one.
You start from a point that was not even the case in the 1960 constitution.

You also talk about the TCs running the north on their own. Can you explain to me how else are federal state run? The last time I checked in all federal systems, the states are run autonomously when it comes to education, health, policing, justice etc. Ofcourse the central government has those bodies that can check whether interior state policies are aligned with those of the Federal Government. For example fiscal policies at state level can only be aligned with those set by the Federal Ministry of Finance and the Federal Central Bank. The justice system is safeguarded by the presence of the Federal Supreme Court where people that think they have been ill treated can appeal. There is also the federal police etc, etc..

As for the Annan plan we have discussed this earlier and I have posted my reservations for this particular plan. The difference between you and me is that you want a unitary state where I accept a BBF that will guarantee REAL independence. For you this may be treason, for me is an honourable concession that takes into account TCs fears and reservations as well as those of GCs and leaves out the motherlands.

yes but in other federal systems they don't have numerical capacities that one area can accept a specific quta of people from a specific community. WHat happens when a gc family is expecting a baby but we've reached the quota of acceptable gc's in that state...would they have to move?

Downright ugly racism.

Oh and by the way, i'd stop trying to convince zan and vp to take a peap of faith for their security. Instead it should be them trying to convince us not to fear the turkish army attacking again.
I need convincing of my security not them!

[zan]

One of the most basic ways is to hold the agreement on ransom to bully the EU. For example if the Anan plan was accepted-presumably she would have to return Varoshia within 100 days.
1000 days would have passed and Turkey would still be manufacturing excuses. The GCs would rise and voila bloodshed and new partition.

Your security must be the structure of the state itself, and should be provided to you by YOUR police. Armies are for war not for security. We don't want armies in a United Cyprus.

Oh what like the ones the Greeks disarmed just before the 63 massacre????

Go have your nap in your London based swing and dream of the 60 massacres like you were dreaming for the past 40+ years. In fact this is what you are doing ever since you emigrated in England at the age of 4, you are living in a state of nightmares

You bettewr believe it mate. Thew same ones that the ones on the island are having. My aunts and cousins and sisters. Don't try and belittle their fears mate. It will be to your loss.

[askimwos]

yes but in other federal systems they don't have numerical capacities that one area can accept a specific quta of people from a specific community. WHat happens when a gc family is expecting a baby but we've reached the quota of acceptable gc's in that state...would they have to move?

Downright ugly racism.

Oh and by the way, i'd stop trying to convince zan and vp to take a peap of faith for their security. Instead it should be them trying to convince us not to fear the turkish army attacking again.
I need convincing of my security not them!

Who spoke about quotas? I already said that everybody should be allowed the right to live wherever they want. We both know that the number of GCs that are prepared to return under TC administration is limited. On the other hand I am prepared to respect the fear of TCs being dominated by GCs because of their numbers. Therefore I am prepared to accept GCs that will chose to live under TC administration to vote with GCs when it comes to federal elections. Something like the notion of "eterodimotes".
As for trying to convince vp and zan I gave up a long time ago. However, this is a public forum and by answering to zan and vp with arguments helps discussion in the sense that other people read these.

[bigOz]

Kifeas wrote:

You probably do not to realise that what is a "red line" for the TCs (and Turkey) is not political equality, but numerical equalisation instead!

And where did you get that information from? What is your source?
or is it a case of MORE LIES AND RACIST PROPAGANDA BY KIFEAS?

By the way - with redgards to your earlier remark about using the forums at the weekends - why is it I do not blieve you? Yesterday was Monday, today is Tuesday - you do not seem to have any problem all of a sudden!

[DT.]

yes but in other federal systems they don't have numerical capacities that one area can accept a specific quta of people from a specific community. WHat happens when a gc family is expecting a baby but we've reached the quota of acceptable gc's in that state...would they have to move?

Downright ugly racism.

Oh and by the way, i'd stop trying to convince zan and vp to take a peap of faith for their security. Instead it should be them trying to convince us not to fear the turkish army attacking again.
I need convincing of my security not them!

Who spoke about quotas? I already said that everybody should be allowed the right to live wherever they want. We both know that the number of GCs that are prepared to return under TC administration is limited. On the other hand I am prepared to respect the fear of TCs being dominated by GCs because of their numbers. Therefore I am prepared to accept GCs that will chose to live under TC administration to vote with GCs when it comes to federal elections. Something like the notion of "eterodimotes".
As for trying to convince vp and zan I gave up a long time ago. However, this is a public forum and by answering to zan and vp with arguments helps discussion in the sense that other people read these.

thats your problem, why would someone vote for the other state. They should care who is running the state they are living in not the one next door.

[askimwos]

Kifeas wrote:

You probably do not to realise that what is a "red line" for the TCs (and Turkey) is not political equality, but numerical equalisation instead!

And where did you get that information from? What is your source?
or is it a case of MORE LIES AND RACIST PROPAGANDA BY KIFEAS?

By the way - with redgards to your earlier remark about using the forums at the weekends - why is it I do not blieve you? Yesterday was Monday, today is Tuesday - you do not seem to have any problem all of a sudden!

Kifaes you are compulsive liar! Your shit stirring will get you nowhere!

Lets not allow thelevel of discussion to drop once again. Please refrain from personal attacks.
Kifeas I expect you do do the same.

[bigOz]

Kifeas wrote:

You probably do not to realise that what is a "red line" for the TCs (and Turkey) is not political equality, but numerical equalisation instead!

And where did you get that information from? What is your source?
or is it a case of MORE LIES AND RACIST PROPAGANDA BY KIFEAS?

By the way - with redgards to your earlier remark about using the forums at the weekends - why is it I do not blieve you? Yesterday was Monday, today is Tuesday - you do not seem to have any problem all of a sudden!

Kifaes you are compulsive liar! Your shit stirring will get you nowhere!

Lets not allow thelevel of discussion to drop once again. Please refrain from personal attacks.
Kifeas I expect you do do the same.

I agree and apologise - but we all have our off moments, especially when initially addressed in an offending way by another party in another post...

[Pyrpolizer]

One of the most basic ways is to hold the agreement on ransom to bully the EU. For example if the Anan plan was accepted-presumably she would have to return Varoshia within 100 days.
1000 days would have passed and Turkey would still be manufacturing excuses. The GCs would rise and voila bloodshed and new partition.

Your security must be the structure of the state itself, and should be provided to you by YOUR police. Armies are for war not for security. We don't want armies in a United Cyprus.

Oh what like the ones the Greeks disarmed just before the 63 massacre????

Go have your nap in your London based swing and dream of the 60 massacres like you were dreaming for the past 40+ years. In fact this is what you are doing ever since you emigrated in England at the age of 4, you are living in a state of nightmares

You bettewr believe it mate. Thew same ones that the ones on the island are having. My aunts and cousins and sisters. Don't try and belittle their fears mate. It will be to your loss.

Yeah, yeah sentimental crap and pseudo phobias are some TCs' expertise.Typical Denktash mentality. QUOTE:if the borders open the GCs will slaughter you...

What have you said the other day, your mother still curses those policemen who dared touch their fingers on her to search her in the 60s?
And a second later we had turkish_cypriot confirming the same happened to his mother?

The question is how many Gcs have you ever heard using THE RAPES their mothers/sisters/daughters suffered in 1974 as a shield and or an excuse for their pseudo phobias?

[Pyrpolizer]

Askimwos,

In the absence of Kifeas I must say he has explained very well how he sees the matter of equality, and it's not how you described it before.This happened some time ago and we even had it on a kind of voting in here, most people including VP agreed.
In fact that was one of the best discussions I remember, I think it was last october or something. I hope he ill give you the link later.

[zan]

One of the most basic ways is to hold the agreement on ransom to bully the EU. For example if the Anan plan was accepted-presumably she would have to return Varoshia within 100 days.
1000 days would have passed and Turkey would still be manufacturing excuses. The GCs would rise and voila bloodshed and new partition.

Your security must be the structure of the state itself, and should be provided to you by YOUR police. Armies are for war not for security. We don't want armies in a United Cyprus.

Oh what like the ones the Greeks disarmed just before the 63 massacre????

Go have your nap in your London based swing and dream of the 60 massacres like you were dreaming for the past 40+ years. In fact this is what you are doing ever since you emigrated in England at the age of 4, you are living in a state of nightmares

You bettewr believe it mate. Thew same ones that the ones on the island are having. My aunts and cousins and sisters. Don't try and belittle their fears mate. It will be to your loss.

Yeah, yeah sentimental crap and pseudo phobias are some TCs' expertise.Typical Denktash mentality. QUOTE:if the borders open the GCs will slaughter you...

What have you said the other day, your mother still curses those policemen who dared touch their fingers on her to search her in the 60s?
And a second later we had turkish_cypriot confirming the same happened to his mother?

The question is how many Gcs have you ever heard using THE RAPES their mothers/sisters/daughters suffered in 1974 as a shield and or an excuse for their pseudo phobias?

Have a look on the internet and you will find many but you will also keep coming out with the same old crap.


You know, you guys will have to try another strategy because you are so obviouse it is sickening. One of you comes out with a catch phrase and all of you use it. There is Kikapyros with his Haram land, as if the land that the Greeks forced us out of is not and then there is you and Bir coming out with psycology crap that neither of you know nothing about. I have been ignoring you for a long time now and I can see that you are annoyed but there is no need to be spiteful Pyrokikos.