Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

You wish to get rid of the Turkish army breathing down your neck, and TCs wish to oblige you, by being allowed to live in their own part of Cyprus in total security, but with the door ajar for a future undivided Cyprus where TCs and GCs can live together.


Under the circumstances the first part is achievable but the latter is not a real possibility because current educatiuonal and religious systems have been generating a degree of hatred and fear - as well as fanatic racists - in both sides. Hanging for dear life the TCs are saying, lets start with a Federal system allowing us breathing space for a while, move the Turkish army out, and work together to bring the communities to a level where the hatred disappears and they can live together.

Upto here we agree 100%. In fact the vast majority of GCs agree.

The GCs are saying; No! we are in EU anyway, we are recognised, we get all the economic and financial help packages from EU, we get all the tourists and recognised international trade, we are doing TCs a favour - so we dictate what we want they have to abide. Get rid of the Turkish army, return all our lands to us (yours we can discuss later), let us govern you. Security guarantees? What security do you want? You have the word of the great RoC government. Write off everything that happened in th epast, except what had happened to GCs of course and we can all live happily ever after...

And then this???? My friend your perceptions are totally-absolutely wrong! You are a total victim of your on propaganda. There is nothing true in the above. And then you tried to preach Kikapu telling him he doesn’t follow the local news???? Well good for him, he is saving himself a true brainwashing.
In short the GCs rejected the Anan plan, for any other reason than the above lies spread by the Turkish propaganda.

The reasons have been discussed extensively in here….

NB. I am very glad we actually agree on the first part. It seems there is still hope.

[Viewpoint]

But here is a question to my GC friends on the forum. If we were given a proposal to have a long lasting peace where everyone's rights were restored and that we would have a True Democracy, and with no outside Guarantors to interfere in Cyprus politics, since we are in the EU now, would you say NO to all this if it meant, that most of the settlers would remain on the island, considering most will remain in the Northern part of Cyprus, specially if we had a BBF system. Will the settlers be a "deal breaker" or can we adjust to live with them, considering the fact, large majority will leave on their own accord anyway. In order for all this to happen, only if Turkey has been given the "Green Light" to enter the EU, so at the end of the day, the whole settlers issue will be nothing but academics, since they will be considered Europeans anyway.

Funny thing Kikapu one of my Tc friends introduced me to one of his friends and he told me he is a Karasakali (this means a settler).But, he said he came here when he was 15, and now he is one of us… Anyway the man was quite educated and worth respect…

The majority of the settlers live in separate areas though and they are backwards.I foresee too many problems social problems if a lot of them stay.

If every true Cypriots rights are restored, and if a number of settlers eventually stay, believe me I will personally not tolerate any abuse on them nor any treatment as if they are second or third class, and I don’t care if that comes from TCs or GCs. I will fight for their rights to be equal citizens. So that we could together work hand in hand and push this society forward.

We do need a society were all people will feel together.

[Pyrpolizer]

Do you mind explaining us why you are laughing? Is it because this does not meet with your partition plans?

[Viewpoint]

Do you mind explaining us why you are laughing? Is it because this does not meet with your partition plans?

[askimwos]

I have been away for a while. I am happy to say that I am glad that finally we have a decent discussion in the forum without all the swearing and name calling.

Now back to the subject...I think that the settlers issue is one that the GCs are prepared to make some concessions in terms of numbers staying. Actually what Bir said earlier that all settlers that married with TCs plus a PRE-SET number of families that have been living in Cyprus for many years can be allowed to stay provided that they either empty the properties handed out to them or at least pay the real owner the current price of the property.
So for example if there are 15,000 settlers in mixed marriages then an additional number of settlers, say another 20-25,000 may be granded the right to stay. The selection should be based on a set of pre-defined criteria like: number of years of residency.

In order to find a solution both sides need to make concessions. For TCs it seems that political equality is a red line. For the GCs the red-line seems to be REAL independence without any outside influence from Greece and Turkey plus the right to return if they choose to. The latter I do not think its a problem for TCs since we all know that not many GCs will choose to return and stay permamently in the north since they have built their lifes in the south. The 20% that people quoted earlier may even be an optimistic one.

The real question here is whether Turkey is prepared to allow Cyprus to go its own way. For the TCs I will just say that provided that Turkey allows REAL independence to Cyprus, the GCs are prepared in their great majority to accept a solution that would allow a preset number of settlers to stay and political equality even in a form similar to that of the Annan plan.

[Viewpoint]

I have been away for a while. I am happy to say that I am glad that finally we have a decent discussion in the forum without all the swearing and name calling.

Now back to the subject...I think that the settlers issue is one that the GCs are prepared to make some concessions in terms of numbers staying. Actually what Bir said earlier that all settlers that married with TCs plus a PRE-SET number of families that have been living in Cyprus for many years can be allowed to stay provided that they either empty the properties handed out to them or at least pay the real owner the current price of the property.
So for example if there are 15,000 settlers in mixed marriages then an additional number of settlers, say another 20-25,000 may be granded the right to stay. The selection should be based on a set of pre-defined criteria like: number of years of residency.

In order to find a solution both sides need to make concessions. For TCs it seems that political equality is a red line. For the GCs the red-line seems to be REAL independence without any outside influence from Greece and Turkey plus the right to return if they choose to. The latter I do not think its a problem for TCs since we all know that not many GCs will choose to return and stay permamently in the north since they have built their lifes in the south. The 20% that people quoted earlier may even be an optimistic one.

The real question here is whether Turkey is prepared to allow Cyprus to go its own way. For the TCs I will just say that provided that Turkey allows REAL independence to Cyprus, the GCs are prepared in their great majority to accept a solution that would allow a preset number of settlers to stay and political equality even in a form similar to that of the Annan plan.

I agree with what you say about settlers but who will provide security for TCs?

[askimwos]

I have been away for a while. I am happy to say that I am glad that finally we have a decent discussion in the forum without all the swearing and name calling.

Now back to the subject...I think that the settlers issue is one that the GCs are prepared to make some concessions in terms of numbers staying. Actually what Bir said earlier that all settlers that married with TCs plus a PRE-SET number of families that have been living in Cyprus for many years can be allowed to stay provided that they either empty the properties handed out to them or at least pay the real owner the current price of the property.
So for example if there are 15,000 settlers in mixed marriages then an additional number of settlers, say another 20-25,000 may be granded the right to stay. The selection should be based on a set of pre-defined criteria like: number of years of residency.

In order to find a solution both sides need to make concessions. For TCs it seems that political equality is a red line. For the GCs the red-line seems to be REAL independence without any outside influence from Greece and Turkey plus the right to return if they choose to. The latter I do not think its a problem for TCs since we all know that not many GCs will choose to return and stay permamently in the north since they have built their lifes in the south. The 20% that people quoted earlier may even be an optimistic one.

The real question here is whether Turkey is prepared to allow Cyprus to go its own way. For the TCs I will just say that provided that Turkey allows REAL independence to Cyprus, the GCs are prepared in their great majority to accept a solution that would allow a preset number of settlers to stay and political equality even in a form similar to that of the Annan plan.

I agree with what you say about settlers but who will provide security for TCs?

What if we have 10-20,000 UN troops or even EU troops on the island for a period of 10 years? These troops will decrease with time until there is no need for them to oversee the implementation of the solution.
I know what your answer will be VP...that UN and EU troops have never intervened when something went wrong etc etc. Before stating this though, please just think a bit..do you really believe that GCs will attack TCs?
Please don't compare the 60's with today...the difference between these two periods is massive. Just to mention a few things:

- in the 60's there was poverty, while now people enjoy a quite good standard of living so they wouldn't want to lose this with a new conflict. Economics dictate politics in today's world and companies need a stable environment to develop

- in the 60's the majority of people were uneducated and hence prone to nationalistic bullshits

-both communities have suffered greatly and learned in the process

- the GC community in their great majority identify themselves as Cypriots or Cypriot first and not as just Greek (only 5% define themselves as Greeks)

- GCs moved away from Enosis. In fact to most of them this would have been an anathema

- Cyprus is part of the EU with all the guarantees that this entails

- ..... I could go on and on, but these are the main ones

[Kifeas]

In order to find a solution both sides need to make concessions. For TCs it seems that political equality is a red line. For the GCs the red-line seems to be REAL independence without any outside influence from Greece and Turkey plus the right to return if they choose to. The latter I do not think its a problem for TCs since we all know that not many GCs will choose to return and stay permamently in the north since they have built their lifes in the south. The 20% that people quoted earlier may even be an optimistic one.

The real question here is whether Turkey is prepared to allow Cyprus to go its own way. For the TCs I will just say that provided that Turkey allows REAL independence to Cyprus, the GCs are prepared in their great majority to accept a solution that would allow a preset number of settlers to stay and political equality even in a form similar to that of the Annan plan.

You probably do not to realise that what is a "red line" for the TCs (and Turkey) is not political equality, but numerical equalisation instead!

You also probably do not realise that besides numerical equalisation (i.e. levelling-out,) they also have some other "red lines," equally illegitimate and unacceptable for the GCs, such as their ambition to run the north 30% exclusively by themselves, on a Turkic ethnic basis and in a monoculture fashion, along the principles and lines on which kemalist Turkey is run! You also do not seem to realise that they not only want most settlers to stay, but more importantly they want them to acquire Cypriot citizenship, and this is another one of their "red lines!" You also do not seem to realise that all these they managed to secure them in the Annan plan, if you have read and digested it!

[Kifeas]

I have been away for a while. I am happy to say that I am glad that finally we have a decent discussion in the forum without all the swearing and name calling.

Now back to the subject...I think that the settlers issue is one that the GCs are prepared to make some concessions in terms of numbers staying. Actually what Bir said earlier that all settlers that married with TCs plus a PRE-SET number of families that have been living in Cyprus for many years can be allowed to stay provided that they either empty the properties handed out to them or at least pay the real owner the current price of the property.
So for example if there are 15,000 settlers in mixed marriages then an additional number of settlers, say another 20-25,000 may be granded the right to stay. The selection should be based on a set of pre-defined criteria like: number of years of residency.

In order to find a solution both sides need to make concessions. For TCs it seems that political equality is a red line. For the GCs the red-line seems to be REAL independence without any outside influence from Greece and Turkey plus the right to return if they choose to. The latter I do not think its a problem for TCs since we all know that not many GCs will choose to return and stay permamently in the north since they have built their lifes in the south. The 20% that people quoted earlier may even be an optimistic one.

The real question here is whether Turkey is prepared to allow Cyprus to go its own way. For the TCs I will just say that provided that Turkey allows REAL independence to Cyprus, the GCs are prepared in their great majority to accept a solution that would allow a preset number of settlers to stay and political equality even in a form similar to that of the Annan plan.

I agree with what you say about settlers but who will provide security for TCs?

What if we have 10-20,000 UN troops or even EU troops on the island for a period of 10 years? These troops will decrease with time until there is no need for them to oversee the implementation of the solution.
I know what your answer will be VP...that UN and EU troops have never intervened when something went wrong etc etc. Before stating this though, please just think a bit..do you really believe that GCs will attack TCs?
Please don't compare the 60's with today...the difference between these two periods is massive. Just to mention a few things:

- in the 60's there was poverty, while now people enjoy a quite good standard of living so they wouldn't want to lose this with a new conflict. Economics dictate politics in today's world and companies need a stable environment to develop

- in the 60's the majority of people were uneducated and hence prone to nationalistic bullshits

-both communities have suffered greatly and learned in the process

- the GC community in their great majority identify themselves as Cypriots or Cypriot first and not as just Greek (only 5% define themselves as Greeks)

- GCs moved away from Enosis. In fact to most of them this would have been an anathema

- Cyprus is part of the EU with all the guarantees that this entails

- ..... I could go on and on, but these are the main ones

askimwos, indeed you make me laugh with your naivety!

You try to convince VP, as if VP is someone in need to be convinced!

askimwos, VP is not here in order to be convinced by GCs! VP is here only to convince you and the GCs that you should give up and allow her to run away with 37% of your country! VP is here in order to convince the TCs, not how good re-unification is, but how much better it is for them to keep 37% of Cyprus for themselves, and run away!

Do not waste your time trying to convince VP and the rest of the crew here! They are not here to be convinced by anyone like you or any other GC!

[gizzy]

askimwos, VP is not here in order to be convinced by GCs! VP is here only to convince you and the GCs that you should give up and allow her to run away with 37% of your country! VP is here in order to convince the TCs, not how good re-unification is, but how much better it is for them to keep 37% of Cyprus for themselves, and run away!

Do not waste your time trying to convince VP and the rest of the crew here! They are not here to be convinced by anyone like you or any other GC!

BRAVO!!!