Cyprus-Forum.com

[gizzy]

So let me get this right what you are saying is settlers who have married a TC or been adopted by TCs can stay the rest have to go...you are not being very clear.

The settlers who have lived here for 33 years also has to leave even though he has children born here? according to you those children also have to go??

Please try to be clearer in your responses.

I think I was perfectly clear on my answer but I will repeat. Settlers who havnt mixed, should have to go coz they are officially only TRNC cizitens and their 33 years on this island doesnt mean anthing as it is "illegal". Just coz they have been citizens longer doesnt give older citizens more rights. I think it should be clear now... They can ofcourse choose to work in the island and also stay by getting legal permissions such as "permission to work" and "live" etc,... I am aware the settlers who became citizens longer back also became like us the TCs in terms of their culture. However am sorry as this is not "pazarlık", its "law" and we cant change it just coz we dont like it.

So in your opinion only the "RoC" has the right to grant citizenships (which they have to around 40.000 Pontiacs) therefore the majority of settlers will have to go back and we have no rights to grant citizenship? What about the marriages (is this what you mean when you refer to "mixed"? so I am not married to my wife) and births (you are not born) we register or the land (Turkish title deeds) we buy and sell? you have really opened a big can of worms here and you are not even in line with EU norms that anyone permitted to stay in your country for 5 years or more has the right to be assesed for citizenship, you do not even give them that right. What about all the cildren born here to settlers after 1974 will you also send those back? If you say they can stay then do you send their parents back do you split famalies up?

Your approach is not only inhumane but cruel, settlers have built their lives here they should also have the right to stay. Imo any settler who has been resident more then 10 years should be allowed to stay, those under this term should be assessed for a residency permitts. They should also be rehoused if living on disputed property which is to be returned. The funding to do this should be met by Turkey.

I already said...This is not "pazarlık" but its "law" and we cant change it just coz we dont like it... Lets give another example that we cannot change: TRNC is not recognized and we have un-humane ambargoes. Why? Coz we are not legal, we are pirates! Whether we like it or not!!!!
!This is LAW and we are not picking up vegetables from a market, you cant argue on some prizes!

You have to realize that its because law and order broke down back in 1963-1974 that we are where we are today, the whole dynamics changed and will continue to change until or if a solution is found. These people have to be dealt with humanely and the AP sheds light on what is acceptable to the international community which is that a certain number will be allowed to stay so why not adopt the EU laws which you seem to favor as dont forget the law in 1960 also gave the not only the GC rights but also TCs, seeing we are a part of Cyprus, the north part we to have rights to live our lives and rule ourselves, life does not stop while this dispute continues. You may have given this right to the GCs but you remain in the north, if you feel so strongly about the TRNC being "Pirates of the Mediterranean" you are free to leave tomorrow and move to the "lawful" GC state in the south. We TCs who feel that the TRNC is worth fighting for will continue as long as we feel that there is no light at the end of the tunnel in relation to agreeing a solution with GCs, if they have the right to say NO so do we until they come to their senses and understand that we are equal partners and compromise accordingly..

The best you can expect is to adopt EU cirteria with regards to settlers so it apears you have purchased bananas rather than apples form the market If the citizenships we have granted are illegal then what have you to say about the GCs who have also granted "RoC" citizenships to thousands of Russians and Pontiac Greeks do you support that we send all these people back as well? or are they have that right but we do not. In that case what about all the other state births marriages education diplomas, if we were so illegal your education documentation would not have been accepted by Cardiff university, your birth certificate would not have been accepted by the "RoC" you appear to accept the TRNC when it suits your aims and not when it serves your thesis. Everything in real life is not black and white in order to solve problems you have show flexiblity and compromise (pazarlik) which neither side does over the Cyprus issue thats why imo there will never be a solution and the current status quo will continue for a very very long time.

<WP:bla bla bla... >

my answer is We don't inherit our environment from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.environment from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.. Therefore we should think about the future of the next generations and should stop counting the money we got by selling the GC land!!! you are just selfish....

[Kikapu]

<WP:bla bla bla... >

my answer is We don't inherit our environment from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.environment from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.. Therefore we should think about the future of the next generations and should stop counting the money we got by selling the GC land!!! you are just selfish....

Gizzy, I know you are new here, but please get the member's name correctly, because WP is not the same as VP, or are you trying to say Wanker P.?

[Pyrpolizer]

As much as I was delighted to hear gizzy's fresh voice in this forum, so much I get upset by the negativity of the known poisonous Vips and Co. What if we have said that not even one of the Rosso_pontians ever got citizenship?
VP will come here and claim thousands and thousands of citizenships were granted to Pontians.

The matter of settlers affects a)The rights of GC refugees to return b)It affects their property rights c)It affects the demography of the island and the power sharing.

The Gcs will never accept the provisions of the Anan Plan regarding the settlers, which in practice allowed every settler to stay. The Anan Plan was so well "balanced" that by violating all a,b and c above would allow all settlers to stay.

I think we must strike out of the equation those who got married -AND ARE STILL MARRIED- with locals. Those are not settlers anymore but real citizens.For those who got divorced though the EU has rules, in fact if they got divorced without children they generally lose the citizenship.

Like I said above in practice the Anan plan not only allowed every settler to stay but it made sure the settler WOULD STAY, through the provisions regarding the property issue (2/3rds of the refugees property getting lost-not more than 10% refugees allowed to return etc). No Gc would ever agree on those things.

So assuming we have a solution that most Turkish settlers were allowed to stay for humanitarian reasons (without citizenship) then without their free GC properties nobody will stay in the end.On the other hand the Gc settlers i.e the Pontians will have no problem staying as they are already living on rent! Well how about that?

Imo it is very questionable whether Turkey will ever undertake any responsibility regarding her settlers, for either re-housing them here, or fascilitating them to return to Turkey. Imo they will be on their own. Besides a lot of them are Kurds no?

One other issue: there is a supressed hostility againt the settlers by the TCs. I have TC friends and they feel oppressed by them, as the settlers feel kind of rulers in here and they go call their "brothers" in the Turkish military whenever a TC dares argue. There are hundreds of examples of this hostility surfacing all the time, cornering the settlers in dark streets and beating them up, derrogatory comments like "i am a fool" etc etc. (I am a fool=nickname for the settlers) settling them in remote areas away from the TCs etc.

So imagine we solve the Cyprus problem and we then have a new problem of the TCs fighting the settlers together with the GCs!! Cause if the Tcs can't go along with them, imagine how the GCs would get along with them.

The argument of well let the settlers stay, we need them for cheap labour is also very wrong. The present generation might well accept that status but how about their children? Within one generation i.e within 20 years we will have a social problem, and instead of having the Tcs complaining they are treated like second class citizens we will have the settlers complaining to the TCs that they treat them like second class citizens.

It's all very complicated, and I consider the matter of settlers one of the FATAL mistakes the TC leadership has made. The other one of course being the current selling of GC properties to foreigners...

[Viewpoint]

So let me get this right what you are saying is settlers who have married a TC or been adopted by TCs can stay the rest have to go...you are not being very clear.

The settlers who have lived here for 33 years also has to leave even though he has children born here? according to you those children also have to go??

Please try to be clearer in your responses.

I think I was perfectly clear on my answer but I will repeat. Settlers who havnt mixed, should have to go coz they are officially only TRNC cizitens and their 33 years on this island doesnt mean anthing as it is "illegal". Just coz they have been citizens longer doesnt give older citizens more rights. I think it should be clear now... They can ofcourse choose to work in the island and also stay by getting legal permissions such as "permission to work" and "live" etc,... I am aware the settlers who became citizens longer back also became like us the TCs in terms of their culture. However am sorry as this is not "pazarlık", its "law" and we cant change it just coz we dont like it.

So in your opinion only the "RoC" has the right to grant citizenships (which they have to around 40.000 Pontiacs) therefore the majority of settlers will have to go back and we have no rights to grant citizenship? What about the marriages (is this what you mean when you refer to "mixed"? so I am not married to my wife) and births (you are not born) we register or the land (Turkish title deeds) we buy and sell? you have really opened a big can of worms here and you are not even in line with EU norms that anyone permitted to stay in your country for 5 years or more has the right to be assesed for citizenship, you do not even give them that right. What about all the cildren born here to settlers after 1974 will you also send those back? If you say they can stay then do you send their parents back do you split famalies up?

Your approach is not only inhumane but cruel, settlers have built their lives here they should also have the right to stay. Imo any settler who has been resident more then 10 years should be allowed to stay, those under this term should be assessed for a residency permitts. They should also be rehoused if living on disputed property which is to be returned. The funding to do this should be met by Turkey.

I already said...This is not "pazarlık" but its "law" and we cant change it just coz we dont like it... Lets give another example that we cannot change: TRNC is not recognized and we have un-humane ambargoes. Why? Coz we are not legal, we are pirates! Whether we like it or not!!!!
!This is LAW and we are not picking up vegetables from a market, you cant argue on some prizes!

You have to realize that its because law and order broke down back in 1963-1974 that we are where we are today, the whole dynamics changed and will continue to change until or if a solution is found. These people have to be dealt with humanely and the AP sheds light on what is acceptable to the international community which is that a certain number will be allowed to stay so why not adopt the EU laws which you seem to favor as dont forget the law in 1960 also gave the not only the GC rights but also TCs, seeing we are a part of Cyprus, the north part we to have rights to live our lives and rule ourselves, life does not stop while this dispute continues. You may have given this right to the GCs but you remain in the north, if you feel so strongly about the TRNC being "Pirates of the Mediterranean" you are free to leave tomorrow and move to the "lawful" GC state in the south. We TCs who feel that the TRNC is worth fighting for will continue as long as we feel that there is no light at the end of the tunnel in relation to agreeing a solution with GCs, if they have the right to say NO so do we until they come to their senses and understand that we are equal partners and compromise accordingly..

The best you can expect is to adopt EU cirteria with regards to settlers so it apears you have purchased bananas rather than apples form the market If the citizenships we have granted are illegal then what have you to say about the GCs who have also granted "RoC" citizenships to thousands of Russians and Pontiac Greeks do you support that we send all these people back as well? or are they have that right but we do not. In that case what about all the other state births marriages education diplomas, if we were so illegal your education documentation would not have been accepted by Cardiff university, your birth certificate would not have been accepted by the "RoC" you appear to accept the TRNC when it suits your aims and not when it serves your thesis. Everything in real life is not black and white in order to solve problems you have show flexiblity and compromise (pazarlik) which neither side does over the Cyprus issue thats why imo there will never be a solution and the current status quo will continue for a very very long time.

<WP:bla bla bla... >

my answer is We don't inherit our environment from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.environment from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.. Therefore we should think about the future of the next generations and should stop counting the money we got by selling the GC land!!! you are just selfish....

You could do me and others the common courtesy of a straight answer rather than responding in riddles. If being selfish when suggesting that settlers be treated as human beings and not like numbers being packed off as you suggest, even though they have lived here for 33 years longer than you and in some cases all their lives then I agree I am selfish.

People on the forum disagree with you and have adopted a more human approach you display a cold and heartless side to solving a problem which concerns peoples stability, well being and future, surely we should be handing over the environment to all children of a united Cyprus not to the chosen privilidged few.

I personally have never owned or sold GC land and those that have will pay the price if ever a solution is found when asked exactly what land they exchanged in the south for what they sold in the north, the difference either being asked for or paid to them (refer to the AP), but imo these people are pretty safe as no solution appears to be on the table for a long time to come if ever.

[Kifeas]

VP, no one said we pack them and ship them back to Turkey! Those people should be paid money by Turkey -as much as it takes, in order to “convince” them to be repatriated! First Turkey will offer to each family of its own citizens some 10,000 euros to be paid in cash once they arrive in Turkey. Let’s assume that this will make 50% of settlers to choose to be repatriated. Then Turkey will increase this amount to 15,000 euros per family, and this for sure will motivate another 50% of those left behind! Then Turkey will come and increase this amount to 20,000 euros, in which case all the rest of those left will opt for it! As simple as that!

What is it that you want to tell us? Do you want to say that if Turkey had chosen to “allow” 500,000 of its people to colonise Cyprus after 1974, instead of only 100,000, that we would have ended up having to accept all or most of them to stay, on the grounds that you claim above? What if they were 1 million people?

[Kifeas]

Let’s assume that we have 100,000 settlers to be repatriated! This make us some 20 -25,000 families (those people have 3-4 children on the average!) 25,000 families X (times) 20,000 euros = (equals) 500 million euros! This is the value of 15 F-16’s that turkey buys on a regular basis, every other year. It is also the cost that Turkey has to suffer every year in order to maintain its troops here, and have Cyprus under occupation. With a solution, the occupation presumably will end, and Turkey will be alleviated from this cost that it sustains every single year, for the last 33 years now! This money, for just one year, will go to compensate its own citizens to be repatriated, and all of them will be happy because it takes them 4-5 years to make such an amount of money back in Turkey!

[Viewpoint]

VP, no one said we pack them and ship them back to Turkey! Those people should be paid money by Turkey -as much as it takes, in order to “convince” them to be repatriated! First Turkey will offer to each family of its own citizens some 10,000 euros to be paid in cash once they arrive in Turkey. Let’s assume that this will make 50% of settlers to choose to be repatriated. Then Turkey will increase this amount to 15,000 euros per family, and this for sure will motivate another 50% of those left behind! Then Turkey will come and increase this amount to 20,000 euros, in which case all the rest of those left will opt for it! As simple as that!

What is it that you want to tell us? Do you want to say that if Turkey had chosen to “allow” 500,000 of its people to colonise Cyprus after 1974, instead of only 100,000, that we would have ended up having to accept all or most of them to stay, on the grounds that you claim above? What if they were 1 million people?

Lets not even go there we have enough problems as it is, my only arguement is these people should be treated humanely and over time be encouraged to become one of us so they do not feel excluded. Those born here, married to TC or those that have been here more that 10 years should be allowed to stay or lets include what you have also proposed an amount of money can be paid to those wish to return. But adopting gizzy proposal is neither humane or acceptable, we are not stupid or emotionless people and we should not treat these people like numbers but as humaely as possible. We coul even provide working permitts as the north will requires workers once the economy takes off.

[Pyrpolizer]

Were you as equally humane when you were throwing us out of our homes and lands?

Actually I see a hidden desire from you to change the demographics on our expense. Whatever the implications might have been.

[Pyrpolizer]

They can be deported very humanely don't worry. All they need is money from those who brought them here. So don't ask for an agreement with us. Make whatever agreement you like with Turkey and SOLVE THE PROBLEM. This is NOT a problem that concerns US.

[Get Real!]

They can be deported very humanely don't worry. All they need is money from those who brought them here. So don't ask for an agreement with us. Make whatever agreement you like with Turkey and SOLVE THE PROBLEM. This is NOT a problem that concerns US.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I couldn't care less if they've lived here for three decades or not... I want them all out period. These are illegal Anatolians and belong in Turkey not here!