Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

I have asked many times how you both intend to put safe guards in place to ensure the numerical majority do not exclude, dominate, exploit, discriminate and turn Tcs into second class citizens in ther own country?

Could we have a few proposals on,

Security

Federal Structure

Land distribution

Political Balance

Settlers

Property just to get you started.

You scream we all Cypriots but you dont seem to have anything concrete to achieve this aim, unless you try to avoid declaring that TCs have to take a leap of faith and can look forward to being assimilated into the GC numerical majority, leaving them at the mercy of GCs to decide whats right and wrong, in a GC state run by GCs for GCs.

[BirKibrisli]

I have asked many times how you both intend to put safe guards in place to ensure the numerical majority do not exclude, dominate, exploit, discriminate and turn Tcs into second class citizens in ther own country?

Could we have a few proposals on,

Security

Federal Structure

Land distribution

Political Balance

Settlers

Property just to get you started.

You scream we all Cypriots but you dont seem to have anything concrete to achieve this aim, unless you try to avoid declaring that TCs have to take a leap of faith and can look forward to being assimilated into the GC numerical majority, leaving them at the mercy of GCs to decide whats right and wrong, in a GC state run by GCs for GCs.

Okey...VP...This is what I think of the situation over all...
I don't have your pathological fear of the GCs...I believe the answer lies in all of us becoming Cypriots...There will be no majority and minority in my Cyprus....just Cypriots who happen to speak two languages (and more) and believe in more than one system of going to heaven...Nobody would want to dominate anybody else if we are all the same...


So lets take your points one by one:

Security...In my Cyprus we will not have a national armed force...All military personal will be disbanded and disarmed....Owning of any weapons apart from shotguns for legitimate hunting purposes will be outlawed.People will need to be licenced to have these shotguns,and strict controls will be introduced...
Rule of the law will be provided by one Central Police force...In the interim, there will be a panel to oversee that nobody will be discriminated against in recruitment and training of the Police...All police will be given special sensitivity training to deal with people from different ethnic backgrounds,if you like...Promotion will be strictly on merit basis...The comosition of the force will evolve naturally,and no strict quotas will be imposed...

Federal Structure....There will be one central government based on strictly democratic and human rights principles...People from all backgrounds will be encouraged to participate in the democratic processes and there will be an Human rights and Equal Opportunity commission to oversee this.This commission will also oversee all programs to ensure that affairmative action is taken where it is necessary to boost participation rates of minority groups.
There will be local governments (municipalities) based on agreed geographical areas to provide essential services like water,sewage,garbage collection,electricity etc...There will be relevant instrumantalities in the central government structure to make sure all is above board with this service...

Land distribution....

People will have the right of return...All land will be given back to their original owners,including the developed land with all the development going to the rightful owner as sort of compendation for the loss of access for all these years...The pretend/temporary owners will have the right to appeal for compensation,and have to prove their case in front of a special property tribunal to be awarded any compensation...War profiteers will be stripped of their profits,and strict controls will be imposed to prevent transfer of money out of Cyprus...If necessary there will be international action to recover monies sent out of Cyprus.A special investigative tribunal with powers to prosecute will be formed to trace and recover all the illegally gained profits from wherever they might be...

Political balance...There will be no special provisions for this.Political parties will be open to all and sundry,and all citizens will fight for political representation on equal footing...It is my belief that if no measures are taken to enforce ethnic quota separations,political parties will fight for support from everyone according to their political,social and economic policies and all parties(with possible exeption of fanatical nationalist parties) will become mixed parties encompassing those who agree with their policies no matter their ethnic origin...This will reflect in the trade unions and other civil/non government organisations,speeding up the Cypriotisation process considerably...

Settlers

All who are born in Cyprus or have one parent who is a Cypriot will be allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds...The rest would be repatriated to Turkey at Turkey's expense...Families will not be separated.The non Cypriot partner in mixed marriages would be allowed to stay if they so choose...Or they might chose to be repatriated with the family back to Turkey...

Property....
This has been dealt with in the land distribution heading above.Private property will essentially be based on the provable claims as to the records kept at July 1974...In special cases this might have to be backdated to 1964,in an orderly manner...

These are my general thoughts VP which I am sure will not satisy you in the least...Mine is based on trust,respect,and understanding...and most importantly on the ideological necesssity to foster our Cypriotness above all else...In my books,lasting peace and justice in Cyprus can only be obtained if we remove all the obstacles on the road to embrace our Cypriotness...I believe that the biggest guarantee of peace between people is their friendship,compassion,empathy and love for each other...Not guns,armed forces,fortified castles,barbed wires,foreign troops or mercinaries for that matter...Mine is a bold and imaginative vision,but one that I believe has more chance of succeeding than the paraniod/defensive/ethnically divisive vision held by you and those who think like you.If you have sensible arguments to refute my opinions i am happy to listen....But if you come back we the same old fear and hate-mongering divisive arguments you will not get a response from me...Time for new,imaginative bold arguments,VP...That is our only chance of saving our beloved Cyprus...If it is not too late already...

[Viewpoint]

Finally, Bir thank you for your post which I have only just read instead of jumping in and making comments which you will hate I will try to absorb what you have said and come back with a more constructive response.

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli

Okey...VP...This is what I think of the situation over all...
I don't have your pathological fear of the GCs...I believe the answer lies in all of us becoming Cypriots...There will be no majority and minority in my Cyprus....just Cypriots who happen to speak two languages (and more) and believe in more than one system of going to heaven...Nobody would want to dominate anybody else if we are all the same...

This is all very nice in fairy tales but with 80% of the population being GCs and our past allow me courtesy to have my reservations and apprehensions.

Security...In my Cyprus we will not have a national armed force...All military personal will be disbanded and disarmed....Owning of any weapons apart from shotguns for legitimate hunting purposes will be outlawed.People will need to be licenced to have these shotguns,and strict controls will be introduced...
Rule of the law will be provided by one Central Police force...In the interim, there will be a panel to oversee that nobody will be discriminated against in recruitment and training of the Police...All police will be given special sensitivity training to deal with people from different ethnic backgrounds,if you like...Promotion will be strictly on merit basis...The comosition of the force will evolve naturally,and no strict quotas will be imposed...

I agree with complete disarmament but wouldd like to know who will compose the panel?

Federal Structure....There will be one central government based on strictly democratic and human rights principles...People from all backgrounds will be encouraged to participate in the democratic processes and there will be an Human rights and Equal Opportunity commission to oversee this.This commission will also oversee all programs to ensure that affairmative action is taken where it is necessary to boost participation rates of minority groups.
There will be local governments (municipalities) based on agreed geographical areas to provide essential services like water,sewage,garbage collection,electricity etc...There will be relevant instrumantalities in the central government structure to make sure all is above board with this service...

Who will compose the commission? what criteria will they use to ensure discrimination has not occured, can this be manipulated to always provide excuses to support their decision?

How will you man these local governments? how will they be elected? thought of any criteria?

Land distribution....

People will have the right of return...All land will be given back to their original owners,including the developed land with all the development going to the rightful owner as sort of compendation for the loss of access for all these years...The pretend/temporary owners will have the right to appeal for compensation,and have to prove their case in front of a special property tribunal to be awarded any compensation...War profiteers will be stripped of their profits,and strict controls will be imposed to prevent transfer of money out of Cyprus...If necessary there will be international action to recover monies sent out of Cyprus.A special investigative tribunal with powers to prosecute will be formed to trace and recover all the illegally gained profits from wherever they might be...

So someone who has built his home on disputed land and lived there for 30 years has to go back to the south? The man who has built a 40million pound hotel has to give this up? I dont think you have really though this one through as what you are suggesting would cause mayhem, do you knwo in Poland some peoperties had 3 owners, seeing you know all tell us how they solved this issue.

Settlers

All who are born in Cyprus or have one parent who is a Cypriot will be allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds...The rest would be repatriated to Turkey at Turkey's expense...Families will not be separated.The non Cypriot partner in mixed marriages would be allowed to stay if they so choose...Or they might chose to be repatriated with the family back to Turkey...

So someone who settled 33 years with no children has to go? again you dont seem to have thought this through.

Property....
This has been dealt with in the land distribution heading above.Private property will essentially be based on the provable claims as to the records kept at July 1974...In special cases this might have to be backdated to 1964,in an orderly manner...

You will cause more mayhem and heartache.

These are my general thoughts VP which I am sure will not satisy you in the least...Mine is based on trust,respect,and understanding...and most importantly on the ideological necesssity to foster our Cypriotness above all else...In my books,lasting peace and justice in Cyprus can only be obtained if we remove all the obstacles on the road to embrace our Cypriotness...I believe that the biggest guarantee of peace between people is their friendship,compassion,empathy and love for each other...Not guns,armed forces,fortified castles,barbed wires,foreign troops or mercinaries for that matter...Mine is a bold and imaginative vision,but one that I believe has more chance of succeeding than the paraniod/defensive/ethnically divisive vision held by you and those who think like you.If you have sensible arguments to refute my opinions i am happy to listen....But if you come back we the same old fear and hate-mongering divisive arguments you will not get a response from me...Time for new,imaginative bold arguments,VP...That is our only chance of saving our beloved Cyprus...If it is not too late already...

You live in a glass bubble millions of miles away with utopian ideas, you really have no option but to respect other peoples beliefs and concerns while you try and sell your own but it all boils down to reality, people will not change direction if they cannot see a better future in a united Cyprus, doesnt it tell you anything that TCs prefer the TRNC with all its imperfections to the promised land you try to peddle, they have the option to move there tomorrow yet they prefer the TRNC.

[humanist]

Birkibrisli, I would vote for you any day.

[Kikapu]

Birkibrisli

Okey...VP...This is what I think of the situation over all...
I don't have your pathological fear of the GCs...I believe the answer lies in all of us becoming Cypriots...There will be no majority and minority in my Cyprus....just Cypriots who happen to speak two languages (and more) and believe in more than one system of going to heaven...Nobody would want to dominate anybody else if we are all the same...

This is all very nice in fairy tales but with 80% of the population being GCs and our past allow me courtesy to have my reservations and apprehensions.

Security...In my Cyprus we will not have a national armed force...All military personal will be disbanded and disarmed....Owning of any weapons apart from shotguns for legitimate hunting purposes will be outlawed.People will need to be licenced to have these shotguns,and strict controls will be introduced...
Rule of the law will be provided by one Central Police force...In the interim, there will be a panel to oversee that nobody will be discriminated against in recruitment and training of the Police...All police will be given special sensitivity training to deal with people from different ethnic backgrounds,if you like...Promotion will be strictly on merit basis...The comosition of the force will evolve naturally,and no strict quotas will be imposed...

I agree with complete disarmament but wouldd like to know who will compose the panel?

Federal Structure....There will be one central government based on strictly democratic and human rights principles...People from all backgrounds will be encouraged to participate in the democratic processes and there will be an Human rights and Equal Opportunity commission to oversee this.This commission will also oversee all programs to ensure that affairmative action is taken where it is necessary to boost participation rates of minority groups.
There will be local governments (municipalities) based on agreed geographical areas to provide essential services like water,sewage,garbage collection,electricity etc...There will be relevant instrumantalities in the central government structure to make sure all is above board with this service...

Who will compose the commission? what criteria will they use to ensure discrimination has not occured, can this be manipulated to always provide excuses to support their decision?

How will you man these local governments? how will they be elected? thought of any criteria?

Land distribution....

People will have the right of return...All land will be given back to their original owners,including the developed land with all the development going to the rightful owner as sort of compendation for the loss of access for all these years...The pretend/temporary owners will have the right to appeal for compensation,and have to prove their case in front of a special property tribunal to be awarded any compensation...War profiteers will be stripped of their profits,and strict controls will be imposed to prevent transfer of money out of Cyprus...If necessary there will be international action to recover monies sent out of Cyprus.A special investigative tribunal with powers to prosecute will be formed to trace and recover all the illegally gained profits from wherever they might be...

So someone who has built his home on disputed land and lived there for 30 years has to go back to the south? The man who has built a 40million pound hotel has to give this up? I dont think you have really though this one through as what you are suggesting would cause mayhem, do you knwo in Poland some peoperties had 3 owners, seeing you know all tell us how they solved this issue.

Settlers

All who are born in Cyprus or have one parent who is a Cypriot will be allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds...The rest would be repatriated to Turkey at Turkey's expense...Families will not be separated.The non Cypriot partner in mixed marriages would be allowed to stay if they so choose...Or they might chose to be repatriated with the family back to Turkey...

So someone who settled 33 years with no children has to go? again you dont seem to have thought this through.

Property....
This has been dealt with in the land distribution heading above.Private property will essentially be based on the provable claims as to the records kept at July 1974...In special cases this might have to be backdated to 1964,in an orderly manner...

You will cause more mayhem and heartache.

These are my general thoughts VP which I am sure will not satisy you in the least...Mine is based on trust,respect,and understanding...and most importantly on the ideological necesssity to foster our Cypriotness above all else...In my books,lasting peace and justice in Cyprus can only be obtained if we remove all the obstacles on the road to embrace our Cypriotness...I believe that the biggest guarantee of peace between people is their friendship,compassion,empathy and love for each other...Not guns,armed forces,fortified castles,barbed wires,foreign troops or mercinaries for that matter...Mine is a bold and imaginative vision,but one that I believe has more chance of succeeding than the paraniod/defensive/ethnically divisive vision held by you and those who think like you.If you have sensible arguments to refute my opinions i am happy to listen....But if you come back we the same old fear and hate-mongering divisive arguments you will not get a response from me...Time for new,imaginative bold arguments,VP...That is our only chance of saving our beloved Cyprus...If it is not too late already...

You live in a glass bubble millions of miles away with utopian ideas, you really have no option but to respect other peoples beliefs and concerns while you try and sell your own but it all boils down to reality, people will not change direction if they cannot see a better future in a united Cyprus, doesnt it tell you anything that TCs prefer the TRNC with all its imperfections to the promised land you try to peddle, they have the option to move there tomorrow yet they prefer the TRNC.

TMT Viewpoint,

Why the hell do you ask very reasonable questions, but refuse to listen to reasonable answers.

We are not even 1/4% in the UK, as TC's and you have no worries, but with 20%, you start to panic.

I know, it is all that ' HARAM LAND" that you have, is what you don't want to lose, is the problem.

You're such a low life SCAVANGER.

So, once again, I"ll ask you to tell us, what proposals will you make, that the TC's will not be a Minority, in a True Democracy.

I know, Partition is your answer.

If you cannot tell us what would be your proposals, why do you ask the same, from others.

What's the matter, you don't want to reject your own answers, since they will be something what Birkibrisli said, if you have any common sense at all.

[MR-from-NG]

Birkibrisli

Okey...VP...This is what I think of the situation over all...
I don't have your pathological fear of the GCs...I believe the answer lies in all of us becoming Cypriots...There will be no majority and minority in my Cyprus....just Cypriots who happen to speak two languages (and more) and believe in more than one system of going to heaven...Nobody would want to dominate anybody else if we are all the same...

This is all very nice in fairy tales but with 80% of the population being GCs and our past allow me courtesy to have my reservations and apprehensions.

Security...In my Cyprus we will not have a national armed force...All military personal will be disbanded and disarmed....Owning of any weapons apart from shotguns for legitimate hunting purposes will be outlawed.People will need to be licenced to have these shotguns,and strict controls will be introduced...
Rule of the law will be provided by one Central Police force...In the interim, there will be a panel to oversee that nobody will be discriminated against in recruitment and training of the Police...All police will be given special sensitivity training to deal with people from different ethnic backgrounds,if you like...Promotion will be strictly on merit basis...The comosition of the force will evolve naturally,and no strict quotas will be imposed...

I agree with complete disarmament but wouldd like to know who will compose the panel?

Federal Structure....There will be one central government based on strictly democratic and human rights principles...People from all backgrounds will be encouraged to participate in the democratic processes and there will be an Human rights and Equal Opportunity commission to oversee this.This commission will also oversee all programs to ensure that affairmative action is taken where it is necessary to boost participation rates of minority groups.
There will be local governments (municipalities) based on agreed geographical areas to provide essential services like water,sewage,garbage collection,electricity etc...There will be relevant instrumantalities in the central government structure to make sure all is above board with this service...

Who will compose the commission? what criteria will they use to ensure discrimination has not occured, can this be manipulated to always provide excuses to support their decision?

How will you man these local governments? how will they be elected? thought of any criteria?

Land distribution....

People will have the right of return...All land will be given back to their original owners,including the developed land with all the development going to the rightful owner as sort of compendation for the loss of access for all these years...The pretend/temporary owners will have the right to appeal for compensation,and have to prove their case in front of a special property tribunal to be awarded any compensation...War profiteers will be stripped of their profits,and strict controls will be imposed to prevent transfer of money out of Cyprus...If necessary there will be international action to recover monies sent out of Cyprus.A special investigative tribunal with powers to prosecute will be formed to trace and recover all the illegally gained profits from wherever they might be...

So someone who has built his home on disputed land and lived there for 30 years has to go back to the south? The man who has built a 40million pound hotel has to give this up? I dont think you have really though this one through as what you are suggesting would cause mayhem, do you knwo in Poland some peoperties had 3 owners, seeing you know all tell us how they solved this issue.

Settlers

All who are born in Cyprus or have one parent who is a Cypriot will be allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds...The rest would be repatriated to Turkey at Turkey's expense...Families will not be separated.The non Cypriot partner in mixed marriages would be allowed to stay if they so choose...Or they might chose to be repatriated with the family back to Turkey...

So someone who settled 33 years with no children has to go? again you dont seem to have thought this through.

Property....
This has been dealt with in the land distribution heading above.Private property will essentially be based on the provable claims as to the records kept at July 1974...In special cases this might have to be backdated to 1964,in an orderly manner...

You will cause more mayhem and heartache.

These are my general thoughts VP which I am sure will not satisy you in the least...Mine is based on trust,respect,and understanding...and most importantly on the ideological necesssity to foster our Cypriotness above all else...In my books,lasting peace and justice in Cyprus can only be obtained if we remove all the obstacles on the road to embrace our Cypriotness...I believe that the biggest guarantee of peace between people is their friendship,compassion,empathy and love for each other...Not guns,armed forces,fortified castles,barbed wires,foreign troops or mercinaries for that matter...Mine is a bold and imaginative vision,but one that I believe has more chance of succeeding than the paraniod/defensive/ethnically divisive vision held by you and those who think like you.If you have sensible arguments to refute my opinions i am happy to listen....But if you come back we the same old fear and hate-mongering divisive arguments you will not get a response from me...Time for new,imaginative bold arguments,VP...That is our only chance of saving our beloved Cyprus...If it is not too late already...

You live in a glass bubble millions of miles away with utopian ideas, you really have no option but to respect other peoples beliefs and concerns while you try and sell your own but it all boils down to reality, people will not change direction if they cannot see a better future in a united Cyprus, doesnt it tell you anything that TCs prefer the TRNC with all its imperfections to the promised land you try to peddle, they have the option to move there tomorrow yet they prefer the TRNC.

TMT Viewpoint,

Why the hell do you ask very reasonable questions, but refuse to listen to reasonable answers.

We are not even 1/4% in the UK, as TC's and you have no worries, but with 20%, you start to panic.

I know, it is all that ' HARAM LAND" that you have, is what you don't want to lose, is the problem.

You're such a low life SCAVANGER.

So, once again, I"ll ask you to tell us, what proposals will you make, that the TC's will not be a Minority, in a True Democracy.

I know, Partition is your answer.

If you cannot tell us what would be your proposals, why do you ask the same, from others.

What's the matter, you don't want to reject your own answers, since they will be something what Birkibrisli said, if you have any common sense at all.

Relax Kikapu, this is a perfectly good and civilised debate, no need for you to turn it into a war. Let these two have a sensible debate please. Where has the calm and sophisticated Kikapu gone?

[Rain]

Majority and Minority
For all who talk about the Greeks being the majority in Cyprus I will like to remind them that it will only take a week for them to be in minority here is this what they want?

[Pyrpolizer]

That's very funny VP puts the issue of settlers and land distribution among the prerequisites to feel first class citizen.

Listen crooky. Land you get whatever you inherited from your parents, not whatever I INHERITED from my parents. Settlers is the mistake of Turkey and Turkey should take care of it, I really don't care how as long as it is not on my expense.

Btw I did not even bother to read the rest of your topic, as I was actually looking for what B's and M's proposal was, and all i saw was your own usual crap.

[Pyrpolizer]

And by usual crap I mean your old tactic of asking questions of how and how and then rejecting all sensible answers like that of Birkibrisli. I knew it all along you would tell B/i the GCs are more and would "eat you like lahana"....