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Erdogan Urges France To Drop Armenian Genocide Recognition

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Postby magikthrill » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:19 pm

fi wrote:I think it's a very wrong policy for Turkey to deny what crimes it has commited.

Take for example Germany, it has accepted and apologised for the crimes it had commited, paid heavy fines but now no one accuses it of nothing.


actually germany continues to pay hefty reparations to the apartheid/ human rights violating nation of israel. imagine turkey having to do so as well? as if they dont have troubles funding their mainland and 1/3 of cyprus nation ?
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Postby YeReVaN » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:20 pm

fi wrote:I think it's a very wrong policy for Turkey to deny what crimes it has commited.

Take for example Germany, it has accepted and apologised for the crimes it had commited, paid heavy fines but now no one accuses it of nothing.


That's what I've been saying, but unfortunately Turkey does not have enough courage as Germany.
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Postby Turkey (( * » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:25 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Yerevan talking about courage!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I see that you haven't studied the history of your enemy!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby YeReVaN » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:32 pm

Turkey (( * wrote:I don't try to act like a victim, look who is talking man!!

That international community BS you just wrote is the community which eats money to say things.So pay them the money yerevan but don't forget you can only pay till the money runs out because when the money runs out you'll see that you can't lie anymore because you don't have the support of money eaters and you'll see that haven't build up your country when you could have by spending all that money on your country. So what I suggest you is that go to your country and try to build something else than lies!!



Pay money? Who are you kidding. Armenia can not afford to pay anybody, when it's economy is struggling. But we all know how many "so called" historiand Turkey payed off to deny the Armenian Genocie. Not to mention millions of dollars that is flowing to U.S lobbyists in particular the Zionists to stop any recognistion that suggests the Armenian Genocide. It's funny how the same money that congress alocated for finincial aid to Turkey goes back to the pockets of those Zionists who work for Turkey.
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Postby YeReVaN » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:43 pm

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Postby YeReVaN » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:18 pm

The Democrat-friendly media machine launched an attack on the Speaker of the House. It is the latest round of manufactured scandal charges, intended to brand the GOP as corrupt, and convince the inattentive that where there is so much smoke there must be fire.

Left-wing British journalist David Rose has an article in the upcoming issue of Vanity Fair which purports to show that House Speaker Dennis Hastert was involved in a bribery scandal. The gist of the faux scandal is that Hastert may have accepted tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from the Turkish government in order to block a Congressional resolution laying blame on Turkey for the 1915-23 Armenian massacres.

In the article, Rose relies on "sources' who tell him of "secret recordings" in which Turkish diplomats referred to Hastert as "Denny-boy" and allegedly discussed making contributions of $500,000 to get Hastert to block the legislation. Rose seems to rely on Sibel Edmonds, an FBI translator, who was fired from the FBI, for engaging in inappropriate behavior. She is now suing the FBI over her firing. Her attorney works for the ACLU – not a friendly group towards Republicans



http://www.americanthinker.com/comments ... ts_id=2811
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Postby YeReVaN » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:22 pm

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Postby YeReVaN » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:23 pm

http://anca.org/press_releases/press_re ... p?prid=790



TURKEY UNDER MEDIA SCRUTINY FOR ATTACKS ON U.S. GENOCIDE RESOLUTION


Major Story in Vanity Fair, Report by Public Citizen Allege Unethical Conduct by the Turkish Government and its Allies


WASHINGTON, DC - A major news magazine and a leading citizens' group this week focused public attention on the unethical conduct of powerful opponents of legislation recognizing the Armenian Genocide, reported the Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA).

Vanity Fair, in its September issue, published a 10-page story on FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, who was fired after “she accused a colleague of covering up illicit activity involving Turkish nationals.” According to the article by contributing editor David Rose, Edmonds claims FBI wiretaps reveal that the Turkish government and its allies boasted of bribing - with as much as $500,000 – the Speaker of the House of Representatives as part of an alleged deal to stop consideration of the Armenian Genocide Resolution.

The article cites accounts by Edmonds regarding FBI wiretaps of the Turkish Embassy and Turkish groups such as the American Turkish Council (ATC) and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations (ATAA), including, "repeated references to Hastert's flip-flop in the fall of 2000, over an issue which remains of intense concern to the Turkish government, the continuing campaign to have Congress designate the killings of Armenians in Turkey between 1915 and 1923 a genocide."

Rose is careful to point out that "there is no evidence that any payment was ever made to Hastert or his campaign." According to the article, “Hastert’s spokesman says the Congressman withdrew the genocide resolution only because of the approach from [President] Clinton, ‘and to insinuate anything else just doesn’t make any sense.’ He adds that Hastert has no affiliation with the ATC or other groups reportedly mentioned in the wiretaps.’” The full article can be read in the September issue of Vanity Fair.

In a separate development, CongressWatch, an arm of Public Citizen, recently released a 49-page report raising ethical concerns about lobbying by former Members of Congress. The report includes a 12-page case study of the Livingston Group's lobbying efforts for the Turkish Government. The report details the efforts by Livingston Group founder, former House Appropriations Chairman Bob Livingston, to secure a "$1 billion supplemental appropriation for Turkey. . . despite that country’s refusal to allow U.S. troops to use its soil as a staging area for the Iraq invasion. He also helped kill an amendment that would have formally recognized the Armenian Genocide that occurred between 1915 and 1923. Turkey has always opposed this recognition." The Livingston Group has received over $9 million in payments from Turkey. To read the entire report, visit:

http://www.lobbyinginfo.org/documents/RevolveDoor.pdf

"These behind-the-scenes accounts reveal a pattern of patently unethical and possibly even illegal conduct by the Turkish government and its allies in their efforts to oppose the Armenian Genocide Resolution," said Aram Hamparian. "Facing growing bipartisan Congressional support for this legislation, these interests are resorting to increasingly desperate means to avoid the international isolation that Turkey will face following U.S. recognition of the Armenian Genocide."
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Postby YeReVaN » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:46 pm

The article says that the wiretap recordings contained repeated reference to Hastert's flip-flop in 2000 on a congressional proposal to designate the killings of Armenians in Turkey between 1915 and 1923 a genocide. At first he supported the idea, but later he withdrew the proposal. Hastert explained that he changed his mind because President Bill Clinton was concerned about the resolution harming U.S. interests abroad. But the Chicago wiretaps, according to Vanity Fair, revealed that "a senior official at the Turkish Consulate is said to have claimed in one recording that the price for Hastert to withdraw the resolution would have been at least $500,000."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/artic ... natsec.htm




http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/08/04/200318.php
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Postby YeReVaN » Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:52 pm

The Genocide Study Trap



Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan recently asked Armenia to agree to the creation of a Turkish and Armenian commission that would study the murder of Armenians in 1915 to determine if it constituted genocide.

President Bush liked the idea. So did German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Council of Europe Secretary General Terry Davis.

The Turkish members of such a commission would, of course, never consent to a finding of genocide. The result, therefore, would be a "hung jury," exactly the kind of ambiguity that Turkey is looking for.

Fortunately, at least for now, President Robert Kocharian turned Turkey down. He suggested, instead, an "intergovernmental commission" that could discuss "any issue."

What many individuals and countries are unaware of, or deliberately ignoring, is that the mass killings of Armenians have already been the subject of a number of studies conducted by third party organizations.

Verdict: Genocide

In 1985, the United Nations Sub-commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities issued a genocide study that is sometimes referred to as the Whitaker report.

"The Ottoman massacre of Armenians in 1915-1916," stated Paragraph 24 of the report, is an example of "genocide." Furthermore, it "is corroborated by reports in United States, German and British archives and of contemporary diplomats in the Ottoman Empire."

The Permanent Peoples' Tribunal, sitting in Paris in 1984, impaneled a jury of Nobel Prize recipients and distinguished experts in international law from around the globe. Its conclusions, published in "A Crime of Silence: The Armenian Genocide," sliced Turkey to pieces:

"The extermination of the Armenian[s]…through deportation and massacre constitutes a crime of genocide...within the definition of the [UN Genocide Treaty of] 1948."

Furthermore, "By virtue of general international law" and the UN's 1968 "Convention on the Non-Applicability of Statutes of Limitations to War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity", the jury determined, "no statute of limitations can apply" to Turkey's crimes.

Nor can Turkey use "the pretext of any discontinuity in the [1915 vs. current Turkish] state" and so "must recognize officially...the consequent damages suffered by the Armenian people."

Another study, requested by the Turkish Armenian Reconciliation Commission (TARC), was released in 2003. TARC itself was, of course, controversial and ill-fated. Nevertheless, the study, facilitated by the International Center for Transitional Justice (ICTJ), concluded that the 1915 murders "include all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the [UN Genocide Treaty of 1948]."

(In view of TARC's US State Department sponsorship, it was to be expected that the report also alleged that the 1948 Genocide Treaty is not retroactive to 1915 and, consequently, Armenians cannot assert land or reparations claims against Turkey. In any event, for the reasons cited by the 1984 Tribunal and others, the report is wrong about Armenian claims and implicitly acknowledges that, conceding that it did not consider "other...international law").

Genocide Games

Were there to be another study, Turkey, the US, Europe, various business interests, and perhaps Turkish friends such as Israel and Pakistan, would covertly try to bring about a judgment of "no genocide" or "we are unable to arrive at a decision." The study would also emulate the TARC report by trying to relieve Turkey of liability.

The West, after all, wants to shield eastern Turkey from Armenia claims as that territory is the only land bridge to the oil and gas rich Caspian Sea basin that bypasses Russia and Iran.

Even during the Cold War, international political pressure corrupted a UN report on genocide. The report's Paragraph 30, issued in 1973, had stated that the Armenian "massacres" were considered "the first genocide of the 20th Century." Turkey objected and was supported by the US, Austria, France, Iran, Italy, Nigeria, Pakistan, and others. During the ensuing years, Paragraph 30 was removed.

Just last year, a United Nations report on the mass killings in Darfur, Sudan decided they might not be "genocide." Even the US had, grudgingly, termed them genocide. The report may have been the victim of clandestine international influence.

Still, let's suppose that a new study were to reaffirm that Turkey committed genocide.

Turkish Tricks

Regardless of what it may promise now, Turkey will almost certainly reject a verdict of genocide. It has, after all, brushed aside every previous study that affirmed the factuality of the Genocide.

Even if it were to accept such a verdict, Turkey would retreat to its well-known fallback position: "Modern" Turkey bears no legal responsibility for the actions of "Ottoman" Turkey.

Turkey's pathetically obvious game is to keep asking for new studies until it gets one that concludes there was no genocide. That would be bad news for Armenians. Western nations would pronounce the Genocide issue dead.

The Diaspora's Job

Besides, should we be trading our dignity and rights for what is likely to someday be an ambiguously-worded, half-hearted statement of guilt by the Turkish government?

Even a sincere genocide acknowledgment's value is questionable as, by itself, it is unlikely to heal Armenian wounds or change Turkish policy toward Armenia.

Only restitution and the return of Armenian land will ultimately bring a significant degree of satisfaction. Restitution means the recovery of, or in some instances compensation for, homes, farms, stolen assets, schools, communal property, and thousands of churches.

Quantifying the theft and material damage committed by Turkey is urgently needed. A starting point is published studies from the Paris Peace Conference of 1919 and more recent works by scholars such as the late Professor Kevork K. Baghdjian. Last year's successful prosecution of the New York Life Insurance Company by Armenians shows that headway can be made.

Geographic and demographic studies of eastern Turkey should also be undertaken. Future territory must include a Black Sea coastline so that Turkey and its friends can no longer block Armenian access to Europe and Russia.

We recognize that achieving all our goals right now is not realistic. In the meantime, Armenia must at least avoid anything that would make the future prosecution of claims more difficult.

Poor and preoccupied with Karabagh and the Turkish blockade, Armenia lacks the resources and public relations savvy to undertake a full defense of its rights against Turkey. Diasporan think tanks and political parties must, therefore, shoulder the burden. Is it not the job of political parties, after all, to uphold national rights?

But, first, we must not yield to the temptation for yet another study to confirm what we and the world have already proved: Turkey committed genocide against Armenians.
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