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The “Might have” Vs the “Did do”…

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: The “Might have” Vs the “D

Postby Nikephoros » Sun May 27, 2007 6:30 am

Get Real! wrote:
And finally, Greek Cypriots are accused that they violated the 1960 agreements yet it was the Turkish Cypriot representatives that walked out in protest for not agreeing over several issues and never to return as instructed by Ankara. Turkey’s advice was very simple… if you can’t get what you want forget about negotiating, just take these guns and ammunition with our compliments and “negotiate” by force! Turkey was already preparing the ground for division…

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... z+incident


This is an old muslim tactic, you can never really trust a muslim when they sign an agreement or negotiation:

"Among classical [Islamic] jurists (Shaybani 1966 ;Tabari 1990. 15-6 ; Ibn Rushd 1995, 656), the peace between dar al-lslam [abode of peace] and Dar al-harb [abode of war] means the temporary suspension of military conflict. Despite their disagreement on the duration of a peace treaty, Muslim jurists are in accord on the provisional status of peace with non-believers. The term used is "hudna" meaning "truce" or "armistice". This view is totally consistent with the principle of total war against polytheism that we discussed above."

From the Canadian Thesis:
"Islam and War : the disparity between the technological-normative evolution of modern war and the doctrine of Jihad"
http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/s4-b ... &rp=1&vo=1
pg. 115 but on my PDF reader it is pg. 134
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Postby zan » Sun May 27, 2007 8:40 pm

Piratis wrote:The crime is when you kill or ethnically cleanse somebody because somebody from his ethnic group once wrote some slogan on a wall or said something that you didn't like. Writing and talking is not a crime.


And started the systematic killing and ethnic cleansing and the ENOSIS of his homeland to Greece and the burning and the looting and the raping. Planed for by disarming the Turkish police a day before you began all of this. Then carelessly losing the very document that said you were going to do it in he first place. So don't try to mask this up with making it sound like nothing came of the graffiti because you and I both know that it did. :roll:
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Postby Jerry » Sun May 27, 2007 8:48 pm

Earwig!
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Postby denizaksulu » Sun May 27, 2007 8:49 pm

Get Real; Not for the want of trying.
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Postby Piratis » Sun May 27, 2007 9:03 pm

zan wrote:
Piratis wrote:The crime is when you kill or ethnically cleanse somebody because somebody from his ethnic group once wrote some slogan on a wall or said something that you didn't like. Writing and talking is not a crime.


And started the systematic killing and ethnic cleansing and the ENOSIS of his homeland to Greece and the burning and the looting and the raping. Planed for by disarming the Turkish police a day before you began all of this. Then carelessly losing the very document that said you were going to do it in he first place. So don't try to mask this up with making it sound like nothing came of the graffiti because you and I both know that it did. :roll:


You did to us about 100 times worst than what we did to you, not to mention that you started it all. You killed 10s of thousands, raped 100s, oppressed us for 100s of years, burned whole towns massacring their population, ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of people.

Thats why you talk about "documents" and about what some people said and wrote. Because the actual actions of GCs by no means justify the atrocities and crimes that the Turks have committed against Cypriots since the day they invaded our island.
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Postby zan » Sun May 27, 2007 9:13 pm

Iknew that would bring you out of he woodwork... :lol: Do you sit there all day waitinfg for me to come along..... :lol: Blimey mate! I am beginning to sound as paranoid as Kikapyros...... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The “Might have” Vs the “Did do”…

Postby Murataga » Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:54 pm

Get Real! wrote:The “Might have” Vs the “Did do”…

What I find interesting is that Greek Cypriots are often accused of things they might have done and yet Turks and Turkish Cypriots are quite happy to do them!

For example, Greek Cypriots are forever criticized for wanting Enosis with Greece, and that of course never happened so it can only be classified as a “might have”, but Turkish Cypriots actually DID apply Enosis with Turkey in the form of the “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus” thus forming a “did do”.

Here’s another example, Greek Cypriots are also criticized that they might have conducted the “Akritas” plan; allegedly a ethnic cleansing plan against Turkish Cypriots which never happened, but Turks did carry out the “Attila” plan; a genocide plan against the Greek Cypriots perfectly executed in July 1974 and the tragic consequences of which I need not remind.

And finally, Greek Cypriots are accused that they violated the 1960 agreements yet it was the Turkish Cypriot representatives that walked out in protest for not agreeing over several issues and never to return as instructed by Ankara. Turkey’s advice was very simple… if you can’t get what you want forget about negotiating, just take these guns and ammunition with our compliments and “negotiate” by force! Turkey was already preparing the ground for division…

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... z+incident

If one were to take a close look at the grievances of the two communities one would find that the Turkish Cypriot argument hangs by the very fine thread of MIGHT HAVE, whereas the Greek Cypriot argument rests firmly on the DID DO!


A rather interesting statement highlighting the level of perversion we face today regarding the facts and history of the Cyprus Problem... Now that you mentioned it, allow me to fill you up with a tiny portion of some ‘did do’s, that might not be addressed in your www.greece.org website (in the thread link you provided): The GC leadership declared ENOSIS their official policy and national goal in a unique partnership and friendship state when it was banned in the constitution to begin with. The GC leadership muscled out TCs when they refused to succumb to this racist undertaking. The GC leadership orchestrated the murders and ethnic cleansing of the TCs for ressisting this crusade. The GC leadership made thousands of TCs refugees in their own island and chased them into enclaves like animals. But that wasn’t enough, the GC leadership invited the Greek military to attack TC enclaves as an Army would to another foreign country. Through these attacks, siege and inhumane embargoes the GC leadership brought TCs to the brink of extinction. Many TCs were deprived of most fundamental human rights including security, housing, property, employment, salary, and was butchered like animals in a shop. Through all this time ENOSIS kept to be the proud excuse and official goal of the GC leadership. However, when the Junta decided that the more political butcher you called your leader wasn’t doing his work as they saw fit, they tried to take things over. Even Makarios explicitly admitted in front of the world in his speech to the Security Council that the TCs are in as grave danger as the GCs from the Junta.

ENOSIS is not a ‘might have done’ phenomenon; it is a ‘prevented by force of arms’ one. Do not make any mistake about it. It was stopped not because reason prevailed to the GC leadership , not beacuse they wanted peace and friendship with the TCs, not beacuse they wanted indepenendence over being subjects of Greece and not beacuse it was illegal. It was stopped as a consequence of 11 years of stiff resistance (outnumbered 1 to 5) put up by the TC community at the expense of their tremendous suffering and losses, and the Peace Operation.

After years of merciless and barbaric treatment by the GC leadership we, the TCs, today have our independent and sovereign Republic. Yes, we have a vital alliance and partnership with Turkey, and we really don’t give a sh.. how the GC leadership, and especially the GC leadership, wishes to portray it.

Unfortunately, today the threat for the TCs by the GC leadership is no less than what it used to be back in the day. True that perhaps ENOSIS is out the door (because it was prooven beyond any doubt to them that it can not be achieved). However, today the TCs are resisting the Hellenization of Cyprus which the GC leadership is trying to impose via monopolic international representation, sociological aggression, widespread propaganda, historical perversion, political blockage, cultural assimilation, economic ambargoes and military buildup. A GC leadership that denies the partnership and equal political status of the TC community is striving for ‘osmosis’. In short: same melody, different wording. The TC community is well aware of this grave danger and prepared, willing and determined to fight it with the same courage and passion they fought ENOSIS.

As far as the ‘might have’ is concerned; I think there is only one: if the GC leadershp had made independence of Cyprus and brothership of the TCs and GCs their official policy rather than ENOSIS and murdering TCs for refusing it, there might have been peace on the island today.

p.s. please do not put links of Greek propaganda websites here again, for they are meaningless and we all know what purpose they serve
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Postby stuballstu » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:27 am

Piratis wrote:
zan wrote:
Piratis wrote:The crime is when you kill or ethnically cleanse somebody because somebody from his ethnic group once wrote some slogan on a wall or said something that you didn't like. Writing and talking is not a crime.


And started the systematic killing and ethnic cleansing and the ENOSIS of his homeland to Greece and the burning and the looting and the raping. Planed for by disarming the Turkish police a day before you began all of this. Then carelessly losing the very document that said you were going to do it in he first place. So don't try to mask this up with making it sound like nothing came of the graffiti because you and I both know that it did. :roll:


You did to us about 100 times worst than what we did to you, not to mention that you started it all. You killed 10s of thousands, raped 100s, oppressed us for 100s of years, burned whole towns massacring their population, ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of people.

Thats why you talk about "documents" and about what some people said and wrote. Because the actual actions of GCs by no means justify the atrocities and crimes that the Turks have committed against Cypriots since the day they invaded our island.


Still spurting the same crap Piratis. Oh well some things never change.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:13 am

Murataga, as usual you can only say lies. The ones that were butchered by the 10s of thousands and have been ethnically cleansed by the 100s of thousands were the Greek Cypriots. This is a fact.

The TCs losses were a mere few 100s, in a period where GCs had an about equal number of casualties. Yet, in you lame and shameless propaganda, you are trying to exaggerate your looses by a factor of 100 in order to excuse yet mora barbaric crimes against us.

In fact the population of TCs between 1960-1973 had increased in both absolute and relative numbers (relative compared to the GC population).

Of course your only way to argue and to support your crimes and illegalities is to say lies, so I understand your motives.

Unfortunately for you your lies can not pass to anybody with knowledge of the the historical facts in Cyprus, which is why your crimes and illegalities in Cyprus will never be legalized.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:17 am

stuballstu, go sell some cars and try to think why you didn't manage to finish high school. Then you might be able to understand why you are not in the position to judge me. (although I doubt you will be able to understand even that)
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